TMNT Season 3 Best Episode Tournament Round 2: Battle For New York vs. C.J. vs. T.U.

[JTH]

ROUND 2

We're back with Match 15, 2 more matches in the second round and there still is no underdog that has come through, though our last match came pretty darn close. We'll see what this one does. This is 6 vs. 11, with 2 episodes that are back to back in the story order.

Round 2 Polls will last 5 days and will be private polls, but of course you can still discuss who you voted for and your reasoning why.

Note: All Round 2 Matches will begin on Tuesdays. Going to keep it uniform, so always be tuned in this time each Tuesday.

To check out the complete up to date bracket, the link is here:
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cf...Best%20Episode

Now with that said and done, it's time to take a look at the "Tale of the Turtle Tape"!

Official Seed: #6
Where JTH seeded this episode: #7
Total Points Received: 85
Official IGN Review: 8.8/10
Current TV.com Rating: 9.8/10
Highest Rating Episode Received: #4 (cookie jar)
How did it get here?: Recieved Bye

Official Seed: #11
Where JTH seeded this episode: #21
Total Points Received: 40
Official IGN Review: 8.6/10
Current TV.com Rating: 9.4/10
Highest Rating Episode Received: #2 (GoldMutant)
How did it get here?: Defeated Race with The Demon in Round 1

Winner faces winner of #3 Return to New York/#14 Meet Mondo Gecko in Round 3


JTH's Prediction:

Spoiler:

Battle For New York to me is clearly the better episode and I believe will win fairly comfortably

#6 Battle for New York - 16
#11 Casey Jones vs. The Underworld - 8
[/I]

Which episode wins in your mind, vote away. Remember...HAVE FUN!!!

[GoldMutant]

I'm going to have to be honest on Battle for New York, it's entirely a missed potential hour long special, moreso than Showdown back in season 1; it's quite possibly the weakest of all the specials thus far and pales in comparison to Annihilation Earth! later in the season.

So on paper, there's some very good potential ideas, among the most noticeable is the introduction to the Mighty Mutanimals for the first time on television, consisting of Slash, Dr. Tyler Rockwell (who has Tom Kenny voicing him now), the now alive Leatherhead and Pigeon Pete. In addition, we get the return to form of concluding the Krang arc, tensions with Leo and Slash, the raid in Dimension X, etc. I won't deny the story it wants to tell, but there are several glaring issues in this episode.

For starters, it's the Mutanimals themselves. Barring the recent comic book origin to tie strings together, what exactly causes them to join forces in the show alone? By this point, Slash and Leatherhead went MIA with the former going wherever after season 2 and LH presumed dead in The Invasion. As for Rockwell and Pete, they feel randomly thrown and beyond brief dialogue explaining the joining under Kurtzman, there's no clue on how these guys formed especially with how they ended up where they are. Furthermore, why is it Leo is the only Turtle to despise Slash; shouldn't Mikey and Donnie have animosity towards Slash after being nearly beaten to death, especially Don? The characters aren't exactly clear in continuity interaction wise; without references to the Kraang back in season 2 Metalhead Rewired and The Invasion it entirely feels like a mashup outside putting LH and Slash in due to being on the Mutanimals in the past.

Outside the main plot, why did Mikey screw with the retromutagen; though later proven in Creeping Doom with his memory, it feels too much like a deus ex at this point. I can't tolerate Mikey's character changing on a weekly basis in the show, and though a great moment it's also one of the worst. Outside no sense of the mutagen set from the previous episode with Karai, Bebop and Rocksteady, why did Mikey think this was a good idea? I thought Michelangelo was a caring individual towards all and would want to save New York, not endanger all citizens from his idiocy.

Of all the main problems with this episode though, I personally feel is there was no buildup to set this event in stone and the rushed story doomed this episode. Beyond Buried Secrets with the Kraang and brief appearances in Serpent Hunt and Return to New York, it feels like the entire "New York in peril" plot established vanished. A little more time should have been given to set up the stakes, whether it be a Mighty Mutanimals origin or a "meanwhile in NY..... setting." Lastly, considering this is an hour long special, this felt especially rushed, which compared to a simple 30 minute episode makes no sense. Without any sort of idea of what happens outside the basics of "Save the city", Battle for New York feels like a rushed production relying on fans to watch from the beginning to get any involvement, ultimately undermining the entire drive of plot.

I won't undermine the positives though. After all, who doesn't love Gilbert Gottfried appearing? The scenery of Dimension X is just as crisp from season 2 and the epicness is where it succeeds with suspense in conflict. However, it doesn't make up for a lack of substance nor buildup which this needed; as a result it feels the entire story rushed. If it were a 30 minute episode I understand, but not an hour long arc.

I know people might be curious why I put Casey Jones vs the Underworld as my second favorite episode of the season; beyond it being a personal favorite, I nearly feel it contributes more to the story over the hour long episode before it. As the Kraang had almost no influence on the season outside the Triceratons at the very end and me being a sucker for gang war, Shredder's more of the primary focus with Karai and eventually the mind control arc, even with that arc of mixed reception at best.

Where I feel this episode succeeds is in addition to continuation, giving Casey some limelight and the introduction of Bruce L...... I mean Hun (), the biggest strength is it setting up future events. It might not be on an epic scale, but it does play a little low with raising the stakes for future exploration down the line; the dynamic of Casey and Raph also gets a little more usage sorely lacking. Finally, who doesn't love references to the 1990 live action movie ("The class is pain 101, your instructor is Casey Jones."). I guess what I'm saying is the episode's handling playing up Casey as over his head, but succeeds as the rogue vigilante he's known for in the franchise. Ultimately, it handles itself quite well on previous characters with motive and characterization, something Battle sorely lacked.

Then again, the episode is still flawed. Common complaints often stem from the animation of Shredder riding a motorcycle in addition to Casey being extremely over the line. Now the motorcycle I will admit is silly on Shredder (you want a limo instead? ) but Casey has proven to handle himself; he might not be a skilled warrior like the Turtles or April, but he does show a strategy side. He didn't entirely win as he merely got a surprise attack against Shredder, a cheap shot against Tiger Claw and merely beating Rahzar and Xever in a simple hit.

Granted though, Casey fighting underhand does offer the possibility of his own style; if he defeated Shredder then yes that's Gary Stu type writing, nearly in an identical manner to April's powers. However, the surprise shot does offer Casey playing wise something that yet to have been utilized due to the continuous triangle he's often involved in for the show and very rarely gets to shine. Simply put, he'd get his butt kicked still but like Batman, Casey planned because he knew he was screwed (until the Turtles arrived).

Tl; dr: The glaring aspects in Battle for New York plot wise and from a lack of build up make it a severe disappointment among the hour long episodes compared to the surprises from Casey vs the Underworld. Due to this, I place my vote towards the latter.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I'm going to have to be honest on Battle for New York, it's entirely a missed potential hour long special, moreso than Showdown back in season 1; it's quite possibly the weakest of all the specials thus far and pales in comparison to Annihilation Earth! later in the season.

So on paper, there's some very good potential ideas, among the most noticeable is the introduction to the Mighty Mutanimals for the first time on television, consisting of Slash, Dr. Tyler Rockwell (who has Tom Kenny voicing him now), the now alive Leatherhead and Pigeon Pete. In addition, we get the return to form of concluding the Krang arc, tensions with Leo and Slash, the raid in Dimension X, etc. I won't deny the story it wants to tell, but there are several glaring issues in this episode.

For starters, it's the Mutanimals themselves. Barring the recent comic book origin to tie strings together, what exactly causes them to join forces in the show alone? By this point, Slash and Leatherhead went MIA with the former going wherever after season 2 and LH presumed dead in The Invasion. As for Rockwell and Pete, they feel randomly thrown and beyond brief dialogue explaining the joining under Kurtzman, there's no clue on how these guys formed especially with how they ended up where they are. Furthermore, why is it Leo is the only Turtle to despise Slash; shouldn't Mikey and Donnie have animosity towards Slash after being nearly beaten to death, especially Don? The characters aren't exactly clear in continuity interaction wise; without references to the Kraang back in season 2 Metalhead Rewired and The Invasion it entirely feels like a mashup outside putting LH and Slash in due to being on the Mutanimals in the past.

Outside the main plot, why did Mikey screw with the retromutagen; though later proven in Creeping Doom with his memory, it feels too much like a deus ex at this point. I can't tolerate Mikey's character changing on a weekly basis in the show, and though a great moment it's also one of the worst. Outside no sense of the mutagen set from the previous episode with Karai, Bebop and Rocksteady, why did Mikey think this was a good idea? I thought Michelangelo was a caring individual towards all and would want to save New York, not endanger all citizens from his idiocy.

Of all the main problems with this episode though, I personally feel is there was no buildup to set this event in stone and the rushed story doomed this episode. Beyond Buried Secrets with the Kraang and brief appearances in Serpent Hunt and Return to New York, it feels like the entire "New York in peril" plot established vanished. A little more time should have been given to set up the stakes, whether it be a Mighty Mutanimals origin or a "meanwhile in NY..... setting." Lastly, considering this is an hour long special, this felt especially rushed, which compared to a simple 30 minute episode makes no sense. Without any sort of idea of what happens outside the basics of "Save the city", Battle for New York feels like a rushed production relying on fans to watch from the beginning to get any involvement, ultimately undermining the entire drive of plot.

I won't undermine the positives though. After all, who doesn't love Gilbert Gottfried appearing? The scenery of Dimension X is just as crisp from season 2 and the epicness is where it succeeds with suspense in conflict. However, it doesn't make up for a lack of substance nor buildup which this needed; as a result it feels the entire story rushed. If it were a 30 minute episode I understand, but not an hour long arc.

I know people might be curious why I put Casey Jones vs the Underworld as my second favorite episode of the season; beyond it being a personal favorite, I nearly feel it contributes more to the story over the hour long episode before it. As the Kraang had almost no influence on the season outside the Triceratons at the very end and me being a sucker for gang war, Shredder's more of the primary focus with Karai and eventually the mind control arc, even with that arc of mixed reception at best.

Where I feel this episode succeeds is in addition to continuation, giving Casey some limelight and the introduction of Bruce L...... I mean Hun (), the biggest strength is it setting up future events. It might not be on an epic scale, but it does play a little low with raising the stakes for future exploration down the line; the dynamic of Casey and Raph also gets a little more usage sorely lacking. Finally, who doesn't love references to the 1990 live action movie ("The class is pain 101, your instructor is Casey Jones."). I guess what I'm saying is the episode's handling playing up Casey as over his head, but succeeds as the rogue vigilante he's known for in the franchise. Ultimately, it handles itself quite well on previous characters with motive and characterization, something Battle sorely lacked.

Then again, the episode is still flawed. Common complaints often stem from the animation of Shredder riding a motorcycle in addition to Casey being extremely over the line. Now the motorcycle I will admit is silly on Shredder (you want a limo instead? ) but Casey has proven to handle himself; he might not be a skilled warrior like the Turtles or April, but he does show a strategy side. He didn't entirely win as he merely got a surprise attack against Shredder, a cheap shot against Tiger Claw and merely beating Rahzar and Xever in a simple hit.

Granted though, Casey fighting underhand does offer the possibility of his own style; if he defeated Shredder then yes that's Gary Stu type writing, nearly in an identical manner to April's powers. However, the surprise shot does offer Casey playing wise something that yet to have been utilized due to the continuous triangle he's often involved in for the show and very rarely gets to shine. Simply put, he'd get his butt kicked still but like Batman, Casey planned because he knew he was screwed (until the Turtles arrived).

Tl; dr: The glaring aspects in Battle for New York plot wise and from a lack of build up make it a severe disappointment among the hour long episodes compared to the surprises from Casey vs the Underworld. Due to this, I place my vote towards the latter.

I was really liking the environment of invaded NY , I wish we spent more time there than at North Hampton. While I enjoy some of the NH episodes they should have been more of a moment of development and focusing on NY. I do love the Mutanimals though, they stole the show for me rather than fixing the invasion issue. Although "Battle of New York" is flawed I still enjoy it though , not as much as the episode after it though.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

I was really liking the environment of invaded NY , I wish we spent more time there than at North Hampton. While I enjoy some of the NH episodes they should have been more of a moment of development and focusing on NY. I do love the Mutanimals though, they stole the show for me rather than fixing the invasion issue. Although "Battle of New York" is flawed I still enjoy it though , not as much as the episode after it though.

Pretty much this, the environment conflict is a serious issue. Come on, you can go for massive stealth missions and overcome the odds, and instead Northampton is dominated without a passing thought towards the events in question? It's highly questionable due to the amount of time of filler involving horror; if the show can specialize in references, I honestly feel the same can be applied to the conflict in which the writers set up. It feels like shock value more than long term and wrapping things up at the snap of a finger; it's ultimately that issue that screws Northampton over outside of the slow pace.

I will admit the Leatherhead scenes with Mikey and Pete's entrance were funny and emotional respectively though, but still feels sudden. A scene at least explaining how these guys joined forces could have benefited rather than simple dialogue, it's quite sudden in nature. Even though likable, the Mutanimals still felt forced into the plot. Besides lacking a motive outside "Mutants smash Kraang!" the characters only serve as a contrast of the Turtles. Outside the more destructive nature and lack of coordination, they easily could have benefited from an episode on origin or a simple flashback when captured by the Kraang, which isn't apparent and personally harms the team outside an explicable reference.

I'm not saying Battle for New York is a bad episode, but compared to previous specials it's probably one of, if not the weakest special. It might not be forgettable and is decent, but a lot of it isn't well put together especially when comparing it to all previous specials minus Showdown.

[Gunpowder]

That which is known as a "vote" will go to the episode that is known as "Casey Jones vs. the Underworld."

I enjoyed Underworld so much more than Battle. Underworld was the first episode following the Kraang's disposal, and as a result the show began to feel more Turtles-esque. More of the characters I actually wanted to see, and some actual plot progression in terms of the Turtles v. Shredder. The Kraang were interesting for a while and their dialogue was quite funny at times, but by the end of Season 2 I'd had enough of them. Seeing them finally get annihilated in Battle for New York was great, but the actual content of that episode left much to be desired because it was your typical "Turtles preventing Kraang from doing mischief" plot that had already been done a million times. I didn't like the Mutanimals as much as I could have, either.

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

For starters, it's the Mutanimals themselves. Barring the recent comic book origin to tie strings together, what exactly causes them to join forces in the show alone? By this point, Slash and Leatherhead went MIA with the former going wherever after season 2 and LH presumed dead in The Invasion. As for Rockwell and Pete, they feel randomly thrown and beyond brief dialogue explaining the joining under Kurtzman, there's no clue on how these guys formed especially with how they ended up where they are. Furthermore, why is it Leo is the only Turtle to despise Slash; shouldn't Mikey and Donnie have animosity towards Slash after being nearly beaten to death, especially Don?

This is why. I'd love to see an episode where we see (in detail) how they came to form an alliance.

[GoldMutant]

Wow, that was a pretty dang close poll this time around, honestly thought it was going to be a tie. Just.... wow.