Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 8:The War for Dimension X

[Powder]

So what? All the turtles have a new dynamic like that. Leo is a geek, Raph has his squishy side, Donnie is a fussy fedora, & Mikey's hyperactive. These qualities add new dimension to the characters.

[Sabacooza]

I guess if my favorite were Leo, I'd have nothing to complain about. Hell, even Mikey's was handled better.

What I'm saying is, Raph having a soft side is not an issue with me but why must it be handled this way? Why can't he show a soft side without doing things or having things done to him that would normally happen for women? The issue is how it's done. It's the execution.

[Powder]

It's not a matter of who your favorite turtle is, but rather your attitude towards the series. One could complain about various things that are unique to this version of any given turtle that could be perceived as "off" or "untrue", or one could choose to think of them as new elements that add to the existing formula, rather than take away.

I don't know where you're going with the whole woman's circumstance thing, but it should be obvious that they're clearly playing up certain things for comedic effect. A tough guy character having a girly moment or two has long been done to get laughs. Leonardo has had tea parties with Chloe, girl talk with April, been emasculated & played for a fool by Karai, but you don't see me complaining. The fact these things are a part of him only humanizes him further. Being perfectly heroic or totally macho is unrealistic.

I'm probably wasting my time, 'cause some of you Raph fans refuse to budge from this silly notion that Nick's creative team is making a deliberate effort to mess him up.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Powder

So what? All the turtles have a new dynamic like that. Leo is a geek, Raph has his squishy side, Donnie is a fussy fedora, & Mikey's hyperactive. These qualities add new dimension to the characters.

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

It is not offensive what they did with Raph you just get offended by everything you SJW Wuss

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Powder

It's not a matter of who your favorite turtle is, but rather your attitude towards the series. One could complain about various things that are unique to this version of any given turtle that could be perceived as "off" or "untrue", or one could choose to think of them as new elements that add to the existing formula, rather than take away.

I don't know where you're going with the whole woman's circumstance thing, but it should be obvious that they're clearly playing up certain things for comedic effect. A tough guy character having a girly moment or two has long been done to get laughs. Leonardo has had tea parties with Chloe, girl talk with April, been emasculated & played for a fool by Karai, but you don't see me complaining. The fact these things are a part of him only humanizes him further. Being perfectly heroic or totally macho is unrealistic.

I'm probably wasting my time, 'cause some of you Raph fans refuse to budge from this silly notion that Nick's creative team is making a deliberate effort to mess him up.

Good. Don't waste your time then. I'm set in my ways and you're set in yours. So what.

Are they screwing up the character on purpose? Maybe not but It sure as hell looks like it.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

Sabacooza doesn't have a problem with the "feminine Raph" concept. They have a problem with HOW it's executed.

The show portrays Raph's feminine side in a comedic fashion(Raph lifting his leg when Mona kisses him). Not only is that unnecessary, but it is actually offensive and harmful.

You're right, I can't be wrong, because it is my opinion. Besides, peanut, with the way your mind operates, you telling me I'm wrong carries little weight. You think everyone on earth is wrong unless they adhere to SJW ideology & hugbox mentalities. Which is of course where the irony of your post comes into play.

Being bothered that Raph has things happen to him that normally happen to women seems a pretty strong suggestion of disliking feminine qualities in Raphael. How you of all people fail to see any sexist element in that line of thinking genuinely astounds me. I mean, wow, either you're a decent troll after all, or one of the most dense progressives around. The fact that Raph doing something a girl may do is "offensive & harmful" to you is absolutely ridiculous. We're supposed to be knocking down gender roles in 2016, not reinforcing them, no? Raph's not afraid of being thought of as girly, that's forward-thinking.

By all means, if I'm misinterpreting the issue here, fill me in. Seems like a bunch of nonsense from where I'm standing at present.

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Actually yes, I'll go as far to say that they are sabotaging the character. It's not hard to see.

You & Rambo are the only people I've seen out of thousands with this conspiracy. I don't see it.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Powder

You're right, I can't be wrong, because it is my opinion. Besides, peanut, with the way your mind operates, you telling me I'm wrong carries little weight. You think everyone on earth is wrong unless they adhere to SJW ideology & hugbox mentalities. Which is of course where the irony of your post comes into play.

Being bothered that Raph has things happen to him that normally happen to women seems a pretty strong suggestion of disliking feminine qualities in Raphael. How you of all people fail to see any sexist element in that line of thinking genuinely astounds me. I mean, wow, either you're a decent troll after all, or one of the most dense progressives around. The fact that Raph doing something a girl may do is "offensive & harmful" to you is absolutely ridiculous. We're supposed to be knocking down gender roles in 2016, not reinforcing them, no? Raph's not afraid of being thought of as girly, that's forward-thinking.

By all means, if I'm misinterpreting the issue here, fill me in. Seems like a bunch of nonsense from where I'm standing at present.

You are misinterpreting it.

I have no problem with Raph showing feminine qualities. I have a problem with its ACTUAL PORTRAYAL.

The show displays those effeminate qualities in a COMEDIC fashion. The writers are basically mocking men/boys who act/emphasize female attributes. They portray it as an embarrassing experience that anybody should laugh at, because society DOESN'T like men who are "feminine". It is honestly disgusting and depressing at the same time.

You want to know why men don't want to emphasize feminine qualities? Because of portrayals like THIS! THIS is one of the ways that the media(and society as a whole) make sure that males don't "act feminine". It REINFORCES that femininity is valued less than masculinity.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

He raised up his leg when kissed and was dipped back and kissed all of which are characteristics typically associated with women so yes, he was feminized which was totally unnecessary.

Sounds like you're insecured with your own feminine side tbh.

I like Raph even more now cause he's more open and honest of who he really is. They did a great job with his character imo.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Powder

You & Rambo are the only people I've seen out of thousands with this conspiracy. I don't see it.

I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Sounds like you're insecured with your own feminine side tbh. :trazz

You're a fine one to talk.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.

Yep, like CyberCubed...

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

The show displays those effeminate qualities in a COMEDIC fashion. The writers are basically mocking men/boys who act/emphasize female attributes. They portray it as an embarrassing experience that anybody should laugh at, because society DOESN'T like men who are "feminine". It is honestly disgusting and depressing at the same time.

You want to know why men don't want to emphasize feminine qualities? Because of portrayals like THIS! THIS is one of the ways that the media(and society as a whole) make sure that males don't "act feminine". It REINFORCES that femininity is valued less than masculinity.

The show is comedy/action. That is it's genre. It shows almost everything in a comedic fashion, you goofball! Casey Jones thought the world ending was "awesome", simple & plain, it's the tone of this series. How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments. Please, tell me. From where I'm standing, they've shown that the brute & the leader can do all sorts of "effeminate" sh*t & still kick major ass & get things done. What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? Further still, Mikey loves unicorns, stuffed animals, rainbows, all types of stuff that invokes the thought of girls cartoons from the 80's, among other things. When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing? You have nothing.

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I guess it would be hard to see if you're part of the Ciro and Brandon cult.

Oh f**k off, mate. I've had my share of criticisms.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Powder

The show is comedy/action. That is it's genre. It shows almost everything in a comedic fashion, you goofball! Casey Jones thought the world ending was "awesome", simple & plain, it's the tone of this series. How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments. Please, tell me. From where I'm standing, they've shown that the brute & the leader can do all sorts of "effeminate" sh*t & still kick major ass & get things done. What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? Further still, Mikey loves unicorns, stuffed animals, rainbows, all types of stuff that invokes the thought of girls cartoons from the 80's, among other things. When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing? You have nothing.

So, because the show portrays almost every aspect of itself as "comedic", that makes its insulting portrayal of "effeminate" men okay?

Thank you for proving my point. Here's one of my older posts.

By choosing to stay silent while this issue takes place, we are choosing to conform to society's standards. We are are choosing to reject the future that we have to build. The cycle will repeat, and more people will suffer.

In modern society, as a result of our patriarchal structure, having feminine attributes is usually seen as a sign of weakness. With masculine attributes, an individual will usually get praised. This usually affects men, but it can sometimes affect women as well.

[Powder]

Not only are you blind to how humor works, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Here are my questions for you again.

Originally Posted by Powder

How have they in any way mocked guys that have "girly" moments? What about any of this has been made out to be embarrassing? When has that been made out to be a bad or shameful thing?

Literally never in the series have any of these "feminine traits" been made to be a sign of weakness & you have yet to so much as attempt to prove otherwise let alone actually do it. Give me some examples or climb the f**k down off that moral high horse.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Powder

Not only are you blind to how humor works, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Here are my questions for you again.



Literally never in the series have any of these "feminine traits" been made to be a sign of weakness & you have yet to so much as attempt to prove otherwise let alone actually do it. Give me some examples or climb the f**k down off that moral high horse.

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

[Powder]

-Heteosexual men do not typically enjoy kissing other men on the lips. It doesn't show that a man kissing another man is disgusting, it shows that one particular character was horrified to find out he'd been macking on his nemesis. It would be no different than if they had revealed they were of another species or something when the skin came off. Living a lie. Spooky stuff. That, by the way, has nothing to do with women being shown in a poor light. Nice try.

-It's funny because it's out of character for him. They're seeing Raph lovestruck & acting on those emotional impulses without thought for how he appears. It's amusing for them to see their brother with his guard down in a romantic context.

You're just another SJW tryhard looking for trouble, peanut.

[CyberCubed]

Sabacooza also seriously believed Brandon was serious when he joked that Raphael would get pregnant with Mona Lisa's babies. And he posted an angry rant about it before he edited it.

I mean, he took something that was clearly intended to be a joke on Brandon's instragram, (do you seriously believe they'd have implied sex on a kids show, let alone Raph being the one to get pregnant?), and threw an angry rant over it. The fact that he couldn't tell that was a joke when everyone else did shows he's on some bizarre conspiracy theory that the Nick writers hate Raphael.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)

It it was simply disgust kissing a man I would agree with you. But Bradford says that he (the cartoon Character) has been a relationship with Faleisha for three years. Which means he has likely done more then just kiss her. It's only in that one instant that he noticed that she had man breath. And even then the disgust is not so much the fact he just kissed another guy...it was the fact the woman he believed he loved had been nothing but a rubber suit.

I think April has the best reaction to the show because her expression just screams

"What did I just watch?"

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

Only April and Mikey laughed and but that was more "Aww that's so cute" laughter.

Sal Commander covers Mikey's eyes as though saying "You are too young to be watching this."

Casey was reacting in disgust while Donnie and Leo both had shocked "Did that just happen?" expressions.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

Just when I think you can't surprise us anymore, you go ahead and just say more nonsense, more ridiculous than the last.

Seriously, get a new shtick. Your SJW routine has gotten majorly stale.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

In this season alone:

- Cartoon Bradford kissed a man dressed as a woman. This is portrayed as a comedic, yet bad scene, as Bradford reacts with disgust as he figures out the truth. It shows that a man kissing another man is "disgusting". (Which is offensive, BTW!)
- Raph is seen lifting his left leg as Mona Lisa kisses him. The directors/writers portray this scene as comedic(the others are LAUGHING at him), which comes off as offensive. It shows that we (the audience) should be laughing AT him. If they really wanted to be progressive, they should have portrayed the scene without comedic effect(without the others laughing at Raph).

Those were some of the examples I gave.

- So he was basically raped and he is supposed to be ok with it? Awww, shouldn't offend his arch nemesis like that!

- But the thing is, Raph isn't ashamed of it. And no one is making fun of him for his role in the relationship, just razzing him for having a girlfriend.