TMNT Superbowl Trailer

[Sumac]

What do you do when you go full speed over-the-top?
You go even more over the top, that's what!!

Predictably, TMNT2 shapes to be even more ridiculous and cartoonish, than the first movie. Moviemakers threw away any kind of pretense for realism and grittiness and went full cartoon.

Personally I feel it will be another Bayformer type of schlock AKA chewing gum for eyes. Which might be not bad in itself (there is nothing bad about pure entertainment, no matter how some pretentious personalities might insist otherwise), but still it leaves my inner TMNT fanboy deeply unsatisfied, since I hold firm belief, that Turtles deserved to be treated better on the big screen, rather than to be turned into throwaway CGI fest.

Bottom line: I most likely won't go to this movie in the cinema, as was the case with the first one.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Leo656

No, that's Batman. People keep trying to give Batman's origin to other characters. Stop that.

Bruce Wayne once joined the police academy, then quit because he felt it was too corrupt and impotent and he couldn't change the world that way. Casey Jones, according to established canon, once bagged groceries for a living and is a struggling alcoholic with an abusive but mysterious past, who we know likes to beat people with sporting equipment but otherwise we don't know much.

Not at all the same character. But then, the guy in this movie bears no reasonable resemblance to Casey Jones, period, so...

Nothing they're doing "fits the character perfectly". They're just making up a new character and giving it a familiar name. That's called "lazy writing". You don't just take an established character, change everything but the name, and say, "It's the same guy". No, it absolutely is not the same guy.

Once again, "It's tangentially-connected to TMNT, thus, It Is Good, Whatever 'It' Ever Happens To Be." How is an approach that disregards EVERYTHING about a character, "a perfect fit for the character", exactly? That's rather contradictory. It's less about the corrections officer thing, which is just one thing in and of itself; it's more that they've gone out of their way to get the character COMPLETELY wrong on purpose. And that just doesn't make any sense why they would do that.

I was just thinking this exact same thing as I was catching up. You beat me to it Leo.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

To address both of your statements. I actually like this new take on the character and I think it fits his character perfectly.
Seeing as his character is one who always involves some form of abuse. As well as wanting to help others in need. Picture him fight throughout his younger years to get justice only to pursue become the antithesis of that ideal and becoming a cop. Only so relies that the "law system" is flawed so he then picks up the mantle of the hockey mask wearing vigilantly. I just think that's quite interesting.

But it doesn't fit his character at all. Just because he wants to fight crime doesn't mean he has the personality to become a cop. Every version of him we've seen before absolutely doesn't have that kind of personality. He's not the type to follow orders or fall into place. He's not the type of character who'd be able to professionally deal with all matter of criminals "in the system" on a daily basis like a correctional officer does. It'd be very difficult to connect that level of professionalism and even-headedness under very stressful situations with the head-cracking vigilante of Casey Jones.

You know what a big part of being in law enforcement is? Paperwork. Tons of paperwork. Do you think Casey Jones is the kind of character who'd spend most of his day doing paperwork?

Making Casey Jones into a cop would be like giving Wolverine the personality of Cyclops. You technically could do this, but it totally alters who the character is.

The really mind-boggling thing of all this is, if the producers just really wanted a vigilante who's also a cop... the property already has a guy for that.

Originally Posted by samxsteal

I'm sorry but just because in some continuity atman happens to join the police doesn't make it his "thing". And you act as if Casey is this o be notw character with no back story. And then say that trying to flesh out said back story is wrong and out of place. In Ida he has an abusive father, he then goes on to help the turtle pretty much because we want to do good and help people. He's not just some psycho who just like the beat the **** out of people.

Well, to start with, the "abusive childhood" backstory trope is extremely played out. The clever part of the original Casey's origin is that... he just watched too much violent television and it went to his head. It was clever then and it's clever now -- especially with 7,000 superhero movies coming out a year, most with their own drawn-out origin stories, that kind of backstory would beautifully recapture the spirit of subversive parody that the original comics and characters represented. That's a huge missed opportunity.

Originally Posted by samxsteal

So why not build of the ice idea guy wants justice(which is a Casey jones trait and a major part of his character. So he joins the police only to find some more needs to happen. So he becomes a vigilante. So because this version doesn't have him being poor means it's not even close to his character? I just don't agree. Most of his back stories involve is loved one getting hurt and his hate for crime. And what better way to fight crime then to join the police. I'm sorry but I don't think him being poor while being and adult is Important. Especially if the reason he is more well off is because he happens to be a cop of all things.

Again, the things you "don't think are important" are the all of details that make the character who he is. It's like... you could make Spider-Man into, say, a fabulously wealthy football star who's never lost a loved one, but then he wouldn't really be Spider-Man anymore, would he? There's more to getting the character right than having the actor wear a hockey mask. But that's the problem with these movies -- they're all lip service, with no real care or understanding of the property they're adapting.

Originally Posted by samxsteal

I mean I new youn and other would disagree with me but. But it all fit for me. As soon as a heard about his back story I was thinking "this is cool"

That doesn't surprise me.

I mean, you're absolutely entitled to your opinions and your excitement, and nobody can take those away from you. But I get the distinct impression that you'd be enthusiastically positive about anything these movies do. Not everybody shares that perspective.

[Leo656]

Zak: I do my best, buddy.

I know for some people it's as simple as, "It's TMNT, it's all we have of it so I will force myself to love every single bit of this," but I'll never get on board with that. Respect needs to be earned, some sh*t just needs to be called for what it is. We've seen enough of "Casey" in this to know the quote marks are well-deserved.

It's not Casey. Regardless of the name. May as well call him "Keno", they have about as much in common if you really break it down.

Bry: To some people, it's enough that the movies SAY they're being true to the characters. They don't actually HAVE to, in their eyes; the false promise is good enough to keep them happy. "They say they care about Casey, so I'm sure it'll be good." They also said they crammed him in the movie after they already shot half of it... let's just ignore that part, since it disrupts the narrative of "They care about the characters".

I've pointed out in other places, this is the "new school of thinking" on working with established characters: "Just keep the name and you're fine, literally everything else about the character can be 100% different." You can always tell who has never taken a single writing class in their life, because they will try and push this line of thinking even though it's completely false. You cannot change every detail of a character and still pretend it's the same character. It is not. Period.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Zak: I do my best, buddy.

I know for some people it's as simple as, "It's TMNT, it's all we have of it so I will force myself to love every single bit of this," but I'll never get on board with that. Respect needs to be earned, some sh*t just needs to be called for what it is. We've seen enough of "Casey" in this to know the quote marks are well-deserved.

It's not Casey. Regardless of the name. May as well call him "Keno", they have about as much in common if you really break it down.

Bry: To some people, it's enough that the movies SAY they're being true to the characters. They don't actually HAVE to, in their eyes; the false promise is good enough to keep them happy. "They say they care about Casey, so I'm sure it'll be good." They also said they crammed him in the movie after they already shot half of it... let's just ignore that part, since it disrupts the narrative of "They care about the characters".

I've pointed out in other places, this is the "new school of thinking" on working with established characters: "Just keep the name and you're fine, literally everything else about the character can be 100% different." You can always tell who has never taken a single writing class in their life, because they will try and push this line of thinking even though it's completely false. You cannot change every detail of a character and still pretend it's the same character. It is not. Period.

Yep even if they were going for an FW version they miserably failed. I encourage everyone to watch the Octopus Inc episode to see how Casey deals with authority.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Zak The Neutrino

Yep even if they were going for an FW version they miserably failed. I encourage everyone to watch the Octopus Inc episode to see how Casey deals with authority.

That's one more of the growing contradictions coming from both the movie's creators and the fans: "It's JUST like the cartoon!"... except no, it really really is not, some things bear more resemblance than others, Krang seemingly being the most faithful followed by Bebop and Rocksteady, but Casey in particular is the most mishandled and unrecognizable element of all. He's nothing at ALL like the FW version... or the Mirage version... or ANY version. Which, again, some people who don't "get it" won't understand, but you simply cannot put some powdered sugar on a bagel and say it's a donut, that sh*t does not work.

I have a strong hunch, supported HEAVILY by things the people making the movie are on record as saying, at various times even after they started shooting, that Casey was never part of the plan and they literally had to cram him in at the 11th hour, THEN they added a bunch more meat to the role once they got Green Arrow to play it. It explains a ton. "Casey" was probably cobbled together last-minute from things that were meant to be said/done by other characters. It explains why none of it has anything at all to do with the actual character of Casey Jones.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Zak: I do my best, buddy.

I know for some people it's as simple as, "It's TMNT, it's all we have of it so I will force myself to love every single bit of this," but I'll never get on board with that. Respect needs to be earned, some sh*t just needs to be called for what it is. We've seen enough of "Casey" in this to know the quote marks are well-deserved.

It's not Casey. Regardless of the name. May as well call him "Keno", they have about as much in common if you really break it down.

Bry: To some people, it's enough that the movies SAY they're being true to the characters. They don't actually HAVE to, in their eyes; the false promise is good enough to keep them happy. "They say they care about Casey, so I'm sure it'll be good." They also said they crammed him in the movie after they already shot half of it... let's just ignore that part, since it disrupts the narrative of "They care about the characters".

I've pointed out in other places, this is the "new school of thinking" on working with established characters: "Just keep the name and you're fine, literally everything else about the character can be 100% different." You can always tell who has never taken a single writing class in their life, because they will try and push this line of thinking even though it's completely false. You cannot change every detail of a character and still pretend it's the same character. It is not. Period.

Hey remember in the first movie they gave a reason Raph was crossed with Leo? You know Splinter missing and in his eyes Leo is just pissing around counting on somebody else to solve their problem. But eventually they make up realizing that if Splinter is gone his brothers are all he has left heck even starts to joke around like the others after he accepts that fact when in the beginning he was short with everybody.

In the 2014 movie Raph and Leo argue because, they expect you to know these characters history and fill in the blanks. So failure there, oh sure he goes through all the same beats as the the previous mentioned Raphael but there is no build up as to why?

So for the movie lovers please stop saying they got the characters right they didn't. I can easily do the other 3.

[Leo656]

The 1990 movie was about as long as this one will be - about an hour and a half - and yet there was tons of character development given to everyone. And it didn't subtract from the plot.

Amazing how they have far more resources and toys to play with now but have zero interest in developing characters or telling a story. Sad.

[Zak The Neutrino]

I would also add to your argument bry that to become a police officer you have to go through vigorous lie detector test about if you've ever broken the law and a psych eval. Casey Jones would never pass either one of these.

[Leo656]

Corrections officer and police officer are different things. Depending on where you are a corrections officer may not require the strictest background checks or training, and in fact is sometimes little but a glorified babysitter/janitor. Some aren't even considered "law enforcement" if they were hired through a private company, for example. It's complicated.

CO's don't go out and arrest people, basically, they watch the prisoners inside the facility and keep the place maintained. It's an easy thing to mix up. People tend to hear "officer" and think "cop" by default but they're not the same thing at all.

[Bry]

So I'm guessing the safest bet is that he's not even a vigilante when this movie starts? Some crisis comes up and he just happens to have a hockey mask and some hockey sticks in the trunk of his expensive sports car.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Corrections officer and police officer are different things. Depending on where you are a corrections officer may not require the strictest background checks or training, and in fact is sometimes little but a glorified babysitter/janitor. Some aren't even considered "law enforcement" if they were hired through a private company, for example. It's complicated.

CO's don't go out and arrest people, basically, they watch the prisoners inside the facility and keep the place maintained. It's an easy thing to mix up. People tend to hear "officer" and think "cop" by default but they're not the same thing at all.

Correct but I thought they were saying he is part of the police force. Maybe I read that wrong.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Bry

So I'm guessing the safest bet is that he's not even a vigilante when this movie starts? Some crisis comes up and he just happens to have a hockey mask and some hockey sticks in the trunk of his expensive sports car.

I don't have to be Kreskin to see that you're more than likely dead-on.

All I've read on Casey so far is "corrections officer", not actual cop, but I may have missed something.

[Foombamaroom]

Here's my thing; I'd be okay with Casey becoming a cop in his future, but you'd have to have him go through lots and lots of development first to get to that point in his life. The Casey we all know and love is a hothead, a drinker (Dependent upon the version.), a fighter, and an abuse victim. That's the key, right there. He's been abused. He doesn't trust the legal system, so he takes crime into his own hands. He's a mess of a character and that's what's so great about him. He's not 'relatable', per say, he's just an example of how terrible things can drive a person into madness. And those Turtles basically bring him back.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Casey's back-story is supposed to be tragic. And the Platnium Dunes creators don't care. I get that they're trying to make this Casey 'new', but let's be honest here: that version of the character already exists in IDW. When we meet Casey in IDW, he's weaker than most of his counterparts, but being alongside the Turtles toughens him up a lot. Not only does this Casey possess great fighting skills, but he has a severe lack of who the character is? This Casey has a sick-ass ride, for Christ's sake. Our Casey is poor and broken.
"Who are you?"
*Smiling* "Casey Jones?"

No. The real Casey would've been gruff and brute about it and just walked away, OR would've scared her off by then and gone on a 10 minute rant about how no one appreciates him doing what he's doing. He's nuts. He's not this sane being that can be reasoned with all the time. Hell, he got drunk and attacked Donnie because they didn't hang out enough in the comics. Leo's right; putting a mask on Casey and giving him a hockey stick doesn't make him Casey Jones. The thing that makes Casey so great is that his motivations are clear cut and understandable, yet the way he carries out those motivations could sometimes be hard to understand. They didn't make him into the grease monkey nutjob that he's supposed to be. Hell, PHOTOSHOP users do a better job:


Also, I don't know why everyone's getting upset over the mask. Yes, the mask looks terrible and quite scary, but we all know it's only going to be in the movie for that one scene. They're gonna show Amell's face as much as they can.

[Bry]

This is absolutely in line with the way these producers approach the material. "All that character stuff? Not important. We put a guy in a hockey mask for a few minutes, what more do you want?"

They may put in just enough fan service to show off in the trailers, but you know they're absolutely going to screw up the execution. That's what Platinum Dunes does. Gobble up rights to beloved properties and pump out lazy dreck that doesn't even try to get them right. Their business model is lazy nostalgia cash-ins.

[Leo656]

And people love 'em for it. "Because there's no such thing as bad taste and everything is subjective."

In other words, "I don't care if it's good, I don't care if it's bad, but I sure enjoy seeing fleeting glances of Things I Remember!"

[slingtheory]

Thinking about the first movie I'm starting to see thier characterization of Casey as another example of them focusing on the wrong details. Casey jones is just a street smart guy who is sick of crime and happens to be really good at kicking a**. Turning him into a jaded corrections officer or whatever besides being out of his character complicates the heck out of an otherwise simple back story for no good reason. That seems to be a running theme with this movie series. They complicate the simple parts while glossing over the important ones

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Michael Bay writes role models as characters. Casey Jones is a terrible role model.

...

Creepy 22 year-old banging a 17 year-old because of the Romeo & Juliet Law or whatever, in Transformers 4... yeah, that's totally Bay's role model.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Michael Bay writes role models as characters. Casey Jones is a terrible role model.

...

Creepy 22 year-old banging a 17 year-old because of the Romeo & Juliet Law or whatever, in Transformers 4... yeah, that's totally Bay's role model.

i always thought that was weird and completely unnecessary. the fact that an underage girl was dating an older guy (and that their relationship was supported by law) contributed ZERO to the overall story about an Alien Robot Race, nor did it do anything for character development. Why MB continues to over-sexualize EVERYTHING in his films is beyond me. Yes, sex sells, but it isnt the only thing that sells. So does great stories, great characters, etc. But...im preaching to the choir here.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Leo656

They also said they crammed him in the movie after they already shot half of it...

I love how'd the those who,dislike this movie keep saying this, and everyone just fallows along as if it's true. It's not it's total ******** and never happened. Oh sure some time after they green lit the movie they talk about, how they were going to "fit his character in" but that was well before filming started. Number one he was cast before filming started so obviously they didn't "force him in half way through filming". It's a bunch of bull ****. Don't like the movie?That's fine but stop post bs and acting as if what you say is all true it's not.