Shifting power levels

Yabuturtle · 02-14-2016, 09:18 PM

Does anyone notice this like in the 1987 cartoon? I noticed that sometimes the villains will be very competent in some episodes and at other times, they end being push overs. I remember Shredder usually running away and fighting sometimes. Sometimes he would hold his own or get pushed aside or he would actually defeat them in combat, like in the episode The Incredible Shrinking Turtles. He actually defeated all 4 of them and rather easily. I remember Krang fighting both Don and Mike and doing quite well, tossing them aside, until both Turtles pushed themselves harder and eventually defeated him and in other episodes like Super Irma, he gets taken down by Leo with little effort.

Even with Bebop and Rocksteady, there were episodes were they were actually a threat and other times, they are just push overs, even being physically defeated in direct hand to hand combat. Although I heard Shredder is supposed to be more talented than the turtles and that only Splinter is on par with Shredder in most series.

I just find it weird on how these battles can be so inconsistent where one minute they are a serious threat and they are push overs in the next episode. xD

mikey22 · 02-14-2016, 09:30 PM

Yup thats why I enjoyed sesaon 2 when shredder was pretty much left for his own the entire season.

*oldmanwinters* · 02-14-2016, 11:11 PM

There's a trope for that...

TurtleGuy · 02-14-2016, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

There's a trope for that...

I think he's talking more along the lines of this one.

*neatoman* · 02-15-2016, 02:39 AM

Hey, remember that episode where Mikey became human? When he became human he lost his ability to fight, seemingly ignoring that his ability to fight comes from training and not being a mutant turtle. Not sure how well this relates to the topic but I might as well point it out.

Yabuturtle · 02-16-2016, 10:03 PM

Mikey also seemed to have lost a lot of strength as he didn't look physically fit either so he couldn't pull of the moves without being in good shape.

*snake* · 02-16-2016, 10:07 PM

Tmnt will never have consistant power levels lol. Maybe IDW but certainly none of the tv shows.

*MikeandRaph87* · 02-16-2016, 10:12 PM

Shredder, Krang, and General Tragg were the biggest violators of this. There eas also the seven villains who could have teamed with Shredder and Krang and could have defeated the Turtles and Splinter for good. How effective would Zach, April, and Irma be? No more than two hits will take each out. The reason for the inconsistency? The need to cater to a plot in a long running series.

Yabuturtle · 02-16-2016, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Shredder, Krang, and General Tragg were the biggest violators of this. There eas also the seven villains who could have teamed with Shredder and Krang and could have defeated the Turtles and Splinter for good. How effective would Zach, April, and Irma be? No more than two hits will take each out. The reason for the inconsistency? The need to cater to a plot in a long running series.

In Night of the Rogues, all 7 were more than a match for the Turtles. Imagine if Bebop, Rocksteady, Shredder and Krang joined in. That would be tough for Turtles and they wouldn't stand a chance.

Unless they got help from Lotus, Mondo Gecko, The Punk Frogs, Casey Jones, Splinter and Usagi. I'm sure all of them could defeat Krang and company for sure if they all teamed up.

*oldmanwinters* · 02-16-2016, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurtleGuy

I think he's talking more along the lines of this one.

Touche!

But, ironically, two TMNT cartoons lead off the board for the Western Animation section of Villain Decay!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...sternAnimation

*CyberCubed* · 02-17-2016, 12:30 AM

The original cartoon had like 10+ different writers. That along with the fact that a lot of episodes were more slapstick than real fighting...it makes it obvious why the Turtles struggle to beat Shredder in one episode and then in the next beat him by throwing a slice of pizza in his face.

*neatoman* · 02-17-2016, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The original cartoon had like 10+ different writers. That along with the fact that a lot of episodes were more slapstick than real fighting...it makes it obvious why the Turtles struggle to beat Shredder in one episode and then in the next beat him by throwing a slice of pizza in his face.

Try 50+, 52 to be exact.

David Wise
Patti Howeth
Christy Marx
Larry Parr
Michael Reaves
Martin Pasko
Douglas Booth
Brynne Stephens
Richard Merwin
Reed Shelly
Bruce Shelly
Duane Capizzi
Steve Roberts
Francis Moss
Rowby Goren
Michael Edens
Mark Edens
Buzz Dixon
Bill Wolf
Gordon Bressack
Bob Schooley
Mark McCorkle
Doug Molitor
David Carren
Larry Carroll
Eliot Daro
Doug Molitor
James A. Davis
Misty Taggart
Ted Pedersen
Antonio Ortiz
Carmela Ortiz
George Shea
Martin Pasko
Dennis Marks
Jack Mendelsohn
Charles M. Howell IV
Dan DiStefano
Sean Roche
Dennis O'Flaherty
Michael Maurer
Gary Greenfield
Carole Mendelsohn
Marc Handler
Steve Granat
Cydne Clark
Matt Uitz
Lee Schneider
Matthew Malach
John Fox
Bob Forward
Jeffrey Scott

*CyberCubed* · 02-17-2016, 12:38 PM

You actually bothered to look that up, my god. A lot of those writers only wrote 1 or 2 episodes though.

But it goes to prove why the original cartoon was so inconsistent. You had all these writers doing their own thing and having no clue what the other writers were doing. So some writers were more silly or created plotholes.

David Wise tried to keep the show on track the best he could. The OT probably would have turned out better if he was given complete control over it like showrunners of cartoons do today.

*Wesley* · 02-17-2016, 01:57 PM

Yep, I first noticed this when watching the show as a kid.

*pferreira* · 02-18-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Try 50+, 52 to be exact.[LIST=1]
[*]Patti Howeth

She didn't write anything. This was confirmed by Wise.

*pferreira* · 02-18-2016, 10:06 AM

I have to admit from Season 4 - 6 Shredder and Krang felt like they were phoning it in but they got a lot better in Season 7 onwards.

*neatoman* · 02-18-2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

She didn't write anything. This was confirmed by Wise.

Well too bad that I don't trust Wise's word, nor should you or anyone else for that matter.

Yabuturtle · 02-25-2016, 08:57 PM

There was also the episode Krangenstein Lives, where Krang's robot body fights the Turtles. And the robot body actually defeated all 4 Turtles rather easily, yet all the times when Krang controlled the robot, he always had a harder time. That's what I find weird.

GodzFire · 02-26-2016, 05:26 PM

Night Of The Rogues was easily the biggest violation by far, and also one of the biggest blown opportunities for an epic episode ever.

A close second is Chrome Dome.

*pferreira* · 03-03-2016, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well too bad that I don't trust Wise's word, nor should you or anyone else for that matter.

Why would you not trust what Wise says about his own scripts?

02-14-2016, 09:18 PM	#1
Yabuturtle Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 602	Shifting power levels Does anyone notice this like in the 1987 cartoon? I noticed that sometimes the villains will be very competent in some episodes and at other times, they end being push overs. I remember Shredder usually running away and fighting sometimes. Sometimes he would hold his own or get pushed aside or he would actually defeat them in combat, like in the episode The Incredible Shrinking Turtles. He actually defeated all 4 of them and rather easily. I remember Krang fighting both Don and Mike and doing quite well, tossing them aside, until both Turtles pushed themselves harder and eventually defeated him and in other episodes like Super Irma, he gets taken down by Leo with little effort. Even with Bebop and Rocksteady, there were episodes were they were actually a threat and other times, they are just push overs, even being physically defeated in direct hand to hand combat. Although I heard Shredder is supposed to be more talented than the turtles and that only Splinter is on par with Shredder in most series. I just find it weird on how these battles can be so inconsistent where one minute they are a serious threat and they are push overs in the next episode. xD

02-14-2016, 11:11 PM	#3
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,499	There's a trope for that... __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

02-16-2016, 10:12 PM	#8
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	Shredder, Krang, and General Tragg were the biggest violators of this. There eas also the seven villains who could have teamed with Shredder and Krang and could have defeated the Turtles and Splinter for good. How effective would Zach, April, and Irma be? No more than two hits will take each out. The reason for the inconsistency? The need to cater to a plot in a long running series. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

02-17-2016, 01:57 PM	#14
Wesley Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 1,597	Yep, I first noticed this when watching the show as a kid. __________________ Donatello: The tracker! It might work. Donatello goes to the back of the Turtle Van Raphael: Shrewd move, Donatello. If we ignore the problem, it might go away by itself. (from The Mean Machines)

02-14-2016, 09:30 PM	#2
mikey22 Stone Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: IL Posts: 682	Yup thats why I enjoyed sesaon 2 when shredder was pretty much left for his own the entire season.

02-16-2016, 10:03 PM	#6
Yabuturtle Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 602	Mikey also seemed to have lost a lot of strength as he didn't look physically fit either so he couldn't pull of the moves without being in good shape.

02-16-2016, 10:07 PM	#7
snake Disgusting Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 12,231	Tmnt will never have consistant power levels lol. Maybe IDW but certainly none of the tv shows.

02-17-2016, 12:30 AM	#11
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	The original cartoon had like 10+ different writers. That along with the fact that a lot of episodes were more slapstick than real fighting...it makes it obvious why the Turtles struggle to beat Shredder in one episode and then in the next beat him by throwing a slice of pizza in his face.

02-17-2016, 12:38 PM	#13
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	You actually bothered to look that up, my god. A lot of those writers only wrote 1 or 2 episodes though. But it goes to prove why the original cartoon was so inconsistent. You had all these writers doing their own thing and having no clue what the other writers were doing. So some writers were more silly or created plotholes. David Wise tried to keep the show on track the best he could. The OT probably would have turned out better if he was given complete control over it like showrunners of cartoons do today.

02-18-2016, 10:06 AM	#16
pferreira Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,514	I have to admit from Season 4 - 6 Shredder and Krang felt like they were phoning it in but they got a lot better in Season 7 onwards.

02-25-2016, 08:57 PM	#18
Yabuturtle Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 602	There was also the episode Krangenstein Lives, where Krang's robot body fights the Turtles. And the robot body actually defeated all 4 Turtles rather easily, yet all the times when Krang controlled the robot, he always had a harder time. That's what I find weird.

02-26-2016, 05:26 PM	#19
GodzFire Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Sewers Posts: 292	Night Of The Rogues was easily the biggest violation by far, and also one of the biggest blown opportunities for an epic episode ever. A close second is Chrome Dome.