Batman/Superman Dawn of Justice movie review thread

[DarkLightDragon]

^Co-starring some new name-less kids that will get more screentime than the actual titular characters.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Or maybe most fans would simply prefer comic book movies to look and FEEL like- y'know, comicbooks. At their best comics CAN be intellectual and cover heavy topics, but that's not their real purpose. This is a comic movie trying to be political and social commentary for the sake of being "intlligent" and NOT because it really fits the characters or their world. We've had comics that covered issues like rape or cancer or government oversight of powered heroes but do most fans want to see a movie about heroes killing innocents by accident and facing trial for it? In a word, NO. No one wants to see them slapping a spouse or causing a disaster through gross carelessness in a movie- that would be counter to what most people consider heroic. Thus why fans critisized Batman killing bad guys when it goes against his character.

[Shark_Blade]

^Comics can be for serious topics too. For example: Watchmen & V for Vandetta. Both are regarded very highly.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

So this movie was good because they called him "the Superman"? Gotcha. Thanks Blade.

Don't thank me, send your compliment to the author yourself.

Pah, seems you need to finish school first to be able to read the whole thing for the context anyway. Stay in class, child.

[ToTheNines]

I did read the whole thing. It mostly just **** on Marvel movies though. I know that AoU and Guardians made a ton of money, but as an admitted mark for the MCU those are two of the sillier movies. And weren't you ranting and raving over Deadpool last month?

[NinjaPug]

"Too smart for Marvel fans" - Did Leo write that crap?

[Krutch]

No, what Leo said was...

I've been saying from the beginning, their only real concern isn't if the movie is any good, it's, "Will the functional retards who made the 'Transformers' series a hit pay any attention to a comic book movie that is as much about story and plot and world-building as it is about explosions?"

Again, people are getting all dismissive and forgetting that I actually HAVE the story of the movie saved on my hard drive. It's brilliant. It's THE best storyline any comic book movie ever had. It's cerebral and nuanced and textured and borrows heavily from the canon in ways no other comic book film ever bothered to, especially in the ways it handles each of its multiple important characters, and how events link together and plant seeds for things that haven't happened yet.

I get that it's fun to play "The Snark Game", but at some point a few of you have to realize you're just f*cking morons talking to hear yourselves, who don't even know what you're talking about. The movie IS going to be really good. Is it "Too Good" for the popcorn crowd? Honestly, that IS a legitimate concern. People nowadays really can't tell good from bad. Some of the same people who think this movie somehow looks "bad" - and again, lay off the f*cking crack if that's your "opinion" - are drooling on themselves over how "awesome" that TMNT fiasco will be. Just for one example. People really are that dumb, to the point where they can't recognize Good Things but universally praise Bad Things, like TMNT or Transformers movies. It's maddening.

Snyder's only "mistake", if you can call it that, is that from the start he aimed way over the heads of the type of manchildren who go see these comic book movies. Which I and a lot of other people say is great, but the response from the plebians has been predictable as f*ck, right from when he decided to make a Movie and not a f*cking cartoon. F*ck those people.

It absolutely is going to be a terrific movie. Will it lose money BECAUSE it isn't "light and fluffy" enough for the little kids and spastic man-babies? Yes, absolutely.

[Commenter 42]

Alright Sharkie, here's the counter argument; Snyder, and possibly yourself, don't actually like Superman, at all.

Most reviews, positive, or negative, have little to nothing to say about Superman. Most people don't even seem to care about the (spoiler) ending.

I've compared it to WWE many times, because that is essentially all it is. If you enjoy wrestling, cool, but Superman isn't really a Monday Night Raw kinda guy, ya dig? At his core he's, well, he's supposed to be about grace. (There's a link to the article at the bottom)

I bet that makes you uncomfortable, right? Like, '"Who wants to see a movie about a graceful dude? I want action, and violence and good popcorn fun!"

Sure, we all like that, and there a ways to do that, and still retain the elements that make Superman who he is, not just a smattering of what he does.


Superman isn't supposed to be humanized. He's not supposed to be down in the dirt with us. If anything, his perfection is what angers Luthor, and worries Bruce. And If Snyder did that, proposed it like that, fine; but again, he didn't.

He made Superman an angsty twat with a superiority complex. Again, okay, you can write a story where Superman acts that way, as a one off, but it isn't what the character EVER represented, and frankly most people don't really cheer for people like that, unless they are like that themselves....

People love to quote that he was an evil dude early on...which is true, but give that was almost 80 years ago, coupled with the fact that it was an incredibly brief portion of his existence, maybe we don't go and hang everything on that all but forgotten moment in history. I'm sure you're not itching to see Batman running around with a gun...
wait...

And really Snyder didn't reach back to that primordial Superman- because he doesn't care, but mostly, he doesn't really know. Underneath it all, he's really just a less talented Michael Bay, who apes Rodriguez. He should be making grind house cinema and slasher flicks. (Again, nothing wrong with those genre's, but it isn't how you define Superman. You don't wear hockey pads to play baseball).

Others have said, and I really agree, He's trying to destroy the idea of Superman. He has contempt for the character, and possibly the world.

So when you say "I love it" You're telegraphing your own contempt and hatred for the good guy. You want a bad ass, who kills people.

Thank about that. You are cheering for murder, so that you can be entertained.
What's more, people are taking their kids, pointing at the screen, and saying "these are our heroes."

This isn't just a movie man... it's much more.

Now I cribbed some of this from another article, and if you're at all interested, maybe give it a read.

I'm tired of fighting with y'all. Hopefully the damn thing stops just below break even, and Snyder is fired. That's the best I can hope for. Short of that, we're in for more garbage with Injustice.

With so many fantastic stories to tell... they go with Injustice. FML.

Originally Posted by Krutch

No, what Leo said was...

Honestly, if he actually had the actual script...well...
I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious now how flat out wrong he was, and all that anger he threw around, when people said "This doesn't seem to be much like Superman"...

Spoiler:

Martha

^^This is genius? REALLY?

Yeah there's a lot of silly stuff in the Donner films, but not this level of bad, at all.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

With so many fantastic stories to tell... they go with Injustice. FML.

Right!? Like, Dear God... in this Snyderverse, what do we have to look forward to on the horizon? Oh, an even DARKER Superman. Hurray? Will we even be able to tell the difference?

*sigh*...this comic will take all of one minute to read and is some serious chicken noodle soup for the soul after all we've seen the last few years.

[Commenter 42]

This is Superman.



That's grace.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

So this movie was good because they called him "the Superman"? Gotcha. Thanks Blade.

That NY Post column might be the dumbest thing I've read in weeks.

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

I fail to see how a film can be "smart" when it barely gives logical and rational thought to almost all of it's characters.

Exactly. It's overly complicated and takes itself super seriously, but the writing itself isn't smart or even sensical at all. It's pretentious. And a lot of its appeal seems to be with people who think "no joking, no fun" means "smart" or "mature" by default.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

http://i.imgur.com/L9nmrf2.jpg

Gold.

[Commenter 42]

Or if they themselves don't fully comprehend it. Basically Inception, again.

[Bry]

There is a habit of mistaking "convoluted" for "deep". BvS may give lip service to some potentially-interesting ideas, but how many points can you give it for that if it absolutely doesn't deliver on them or even work as a cohesive story? Ultimately that's what "smart" writing is -- telling a cohesive story that delivers on its themes, with compelling, consistent and well-realized characters. All things BvS sorely lacks.

[Krutch]

Exactly. I like some of the broad strokes of the story but all the execution is wrong.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Or maybe most fans would simply prefer comic book movies to look and FEEL like- y'know, comicbooks. At their best comics CAN be intellectual and cover heavy topics, but that's not their real purpose. This is a comic movie trying to be political and social commentary for the sake of being "intlligent" and NOT because it really fits the characters or their world. We've had comics that covered issues like rape or cancer or government oversight of powered heroes but do most fans want to see a movie about heroes killing innocents by accident and facing trial for it? In a word, NO. No one wants to see them slapping a spouse or causing a disaster through gross carelessness in a movie- that would be counter to what most people consider heroic. Thus why fans critisized Batman killing bad guys when it goes against his character.

I agree...and yet I can't help but think of television shows "Jessica Jones," "Daredevil," "Breaking Bad," and "The Sopranos." All four have highly flawed protagonists, all four were unbelievably well received, and all four had more than their fair share of visceral violence.

I'm not trying to make this a Marvel vs DC thing, because that horse is dead and should be left alone for a good long while.
There are a whole lot of AMAZINGLY Solid non-comic DC things out there...they're just all animated.

[Spike Spiegel]

From the afterword to Batman: Year One by David Mazzucchelli

Spoiler:

[Slade]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Alright Sharkie, here's the counter argument; Snyder, and possibly yourself, don't actually like Superman, at all.

Most reviews, positive, or negative, have little to nothing to say about Superman. Most people don't even seem to care about the (spoiler) ending.

I've compared it to WWE many times, because that is essentially all it is. If you enjoy wrestling, cool, but Superman isn't really a Monday Night Raw kinda guy, ya dig? At his core he's, well, he's supposed to be about grace. (There's a link to the article at the bottom)

I bet that makes you uncomfortable, right? Like, '"Who wants to see a movie about a graceful dude? I want action, and violence and good popcorn fun!"

Sure, we all like that, and there a ways to do that, and still retain the elements that make Superman who he is, not just a smattering of what he does.


Superman isn't supposed to be humanized. He's not supposed to be down in the dirt with us. If anything, his perfection is what angers Luthor, and worries Bruce. And If Snyder did that, proposed it like that, fine; but again, he didn't.

He made Superman an angsty twat with a superiority complex. Again, okay, you can write a story where Superman acts that way, as a one off, but it isn't what the character EVER represented, and frankly most people don't really cheer for people like that, unless they are like that themselves....

People love to quote that he was an evil dude early on...which is true, but give that was almost 80 years ago, coupled with the fact that it was an incredibly brief portion of his existence, maybe we don't go and hang everything on that all but forgotten moment in history. I'm sure you're not itching to see Batman running around with a gun...
wait...

And really Snyder didn't reach back to that primordial Superman- because he doesn't care, but mostly, he doesn't really know. Underneath it all, he's really just a less talented Michael Bay, who apes Rodriguez. He should be making grind house cinema and slasher flicks. (Again, nothing wrong with those genre's, but it isn't how you define Superman. You don't wear hockey pads to play baseball).

Others have said, and I really agree, He's trying to destroy the idea of Superman. He has contempt for the character, and possibly the world.

So when you say "I love it" You're telegraphing your own contempt and hatred for the good guy. You want a bad ass, who kills people.

Thank about that. You are cheering for murder, so that you can be entertained.
What's more, people are taking their kids, pointing at the screen, and saying "these are our heroes."

This isn't just a movie man... it's much more.

Now I cribbed some of this from another article, and if you're at all interested, maybe give it a read.

I'm tired of fighting with y'all. Hopefully the damn thing stops just below break even, and Snyder is fired. That's the best I can hope for. Short of that, we're in for more garbage with Injustice.

With so many fantastic stories to tell... they go with Injustice. FML.




Honestly, if he actually had the actual script...well...
I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious now how flat out wrong he was, and all that anger he threw around, when people said "This doesn't seem to be much like Superman"...

Spoiler:

Martha

^^This is genius? REALLY?

Yeah there's a lot of silly stuff in the Donner films, but not this level of bad, at all.

I'm trying to understand why you say it's cheering for murder?
Are you only referring to Superman here? Is this still from MoS or are you meaning this movie now?

Just wondering.

[DarkLightDragon]

I do find it rather hypocritical of Batman to get on Superman's a** for killing people yet he has no problem doing the same to criminals.

Yes, yes, I know the difference is Supes killed innocent people in MoS and Batman kills crooks, but they've essentially been caught doing the same act: Taking lives regardless of it personally suiting their needs or not.

And with that, I'm a Mad Scientist now. Woot woot I guess.

[TonySiegel]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

This is Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/ppQBmYx.jpg

That's grace.

What has superman become?

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Slade

I'm trying to understand why you say it's cheering for murder?
Are you only referring to Superman here? Is this still from MoS or are you meaning this movie now?

Just wondering.

I'm talking about BVS, as well as dismissing characters as crap unless they're "bad ass".

I get it; sometimes, the lower brain takes over, and we want to watch the world burn... but the whole "yeah son, look how Batman just brained that guy! Best Batman ever!" or Cavil taking the guy through the wall..."

Just saying, it's kinda ****ed up. Also, not all that interesting.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Why are you people arguing with someone who hasn't even seen the movie, and just copy and pastes his arguments from reviews he reads?