Official TMNT 2 Discussion

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

"Dormant animal gene" is something randomly thrown out there that has no basis in science or any science shown in the story they've so far told.

Whereas the mutagen creating humanoids from normal turtles has usually been shown with some manner of logic, reason, and explanation. This ranges from "mutates based on last living thing you came in contact with (Fred Wolf)" to "mutates into anthropomorphic humanoids (4Kids / Mirage)" to "whole lotta science, honestly a bit too much (IDW)". But it's always given a (usually) simple concept which is easy to accept with a nod BUT DOES NOT BREAK DOWN IN ITS OWN STORY.

Whereas, "dormant animal gene" makes no sense even in story. Do all black men have pig genes? Do all white Irish men have rhino genes? Does each individual human on earth have a different gene? If so, what drives that incredibly odd random gene?

http://i.imgur.com/zUofGqw.jpg

Unless some humans were a certain type of animal in a former life.

You know that whole reincarnation thing that the IDW comics dealt with? what if the same goes for Bebop and Rocksteady?

[IndigoErth]

Even then, you can't take your genes with you. You could believe you have a dragon spirit all you damn well want to, but even movie science shouldn't break logic to that point and turn you into one.

Or does IDW turn the Turtles human because of it? Haven't read, but have my doubts.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Whereas the mutagen creating humanoids from normal turtles has usually been shown with some manner of logic, reason, and explanation.

you just used the words 'logic, reason, and explanation' in the same sentence as 'mutagen creating humanoids from normal turtles'. if those things can go together, then 'dormant animal gene', really doesn't seem so bad.

look, im not saying i like it...i much prefer the whole 'last animal you came in contact with', but unfortunately its not what we are getting.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, so lets just agree to disagree.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Unless some humans were a certain type of animal in a former life.

You know that whole reincarnation thing that the IDW comics dealt with? what if the same goes for Bebop and Rocksteady?

*facepalm*


That's not how genes work...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

you just used the words 'logic, reason, and explanation' in the same sentence as 'mutagen creating humanoids from normal turtles'.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, so lets just agree to disagree.

Stories are governed by the rules created and followed within said stories. It is perfectly reasonable to expect strange and fantastical things to follow logic, reason, and explanation explicitly or implicitly shown and referenced in said story.

There is logic to magic in The Dresden Files; there is logic to the Bajoran Prophets in Deep Space Nine; there is logic to the mutagen in TMNT.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

*facepalm*


That's not how genes work...

That's not even how jeans work. Or Jeans.

[TigerClaw]

3 weeks left til the movie comes out in the US.
https://twitter.com/StephenAmell/sta...03640635592704

[Candy Kappa]

I love it when people invoke Crisler's Law.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Unless some humans were a certain type of animal in a former life.

You know that whole reincarnation thing that the IDW comics dealt with? what if the same goes for Bebop and Rocksteady?

Bruh, you don't even read the IDW book. Don't come in here trying to school us on some TMNT that you're not even well-versed in.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

why so much hate on the 'dormant animal gene'? is it silly...borderline ridiculous, yes.

is it any more ridiculous than an ooze that when in contact with animals can turn them into anthropomorphic beings? no, not really. It all kinda falls in line.

I mean... yeah, it is more ridiculous, actually. None of it is "realistic", but there's a level of internal consistency to most other versions of the concept. An alien mutagen that "evolves" animals into humanoid forms, or splices the DNA of two animals based on contact, may both be fantastical, but there's a consistency to both ideas. Every human being having the "dormant gene" of a random animal in their DNA even though that makes zero sense from a scientific or evolutionary standpoint is a lot dumber than either of those ideas.

Originally Posted by graphic_content

and by the way, the "Crisler's Law" you keep throwing out there is a terrible argument because all you're saying is that they can use made-up science to justify the existence of the Turtles themselves, but when someone (using the same made-up science) uses it to justify something you don't like, its a terrible idea.

Again -- just because it's fictional, fantastical pseudo-science doesn't mean there are no "rules". Every concept, character, and story needs rules or else it devolves into nonsensical gibberish. No matter how out-there the concept is. Without rules, nothing feels "real" and there's no reason to care.

If someone were to say, "getting superpowers from a radioactive spider bite is silly, so you might as well make Spider-Man an alien cyborg from the planet Xorbo who shoots spiders out of his mouth and has to eat 12 pounds of emeralds every 6 hours or else his head explodes and destroys the universe," most people would very reasonably call that stupid, because it goes against all of the rules and internal consistency Spider-Man was created with.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by Bry

If someone were to say, "getting superpowers from a radioactive spider bite is silly, so you might as well make Spider-Man an alien cyborg from the planet Xorbo who shoots spiders out of his mouth and has to eat 12 pounds of emeralds every 6 hours or else his head explodes and destroys the universe," most people would very reasonably call that stupid, because it goes against all of the rules and internal consistency Spider-Man was created with.

Of course, even in a fictional setting, consistency is important, but (and maybe its just me), humanoid turtles, and 'dormant animal genes' don't really seem too far off.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Stories are governed by the rules created and followed within said stories. It is perfectly reasonable to expect strange and fantastical things to follow logic, reason, and explanation explicitly or implicitly shown and referenced in said story.

There is logic to magic in The Dresden Files; there is logic to the Bajoran Prophets in Deep Space Nine; there is logic to the mutagen in TMNT.

that's true, and I'm not denying that. all I'm saying is, suggesting that humans have genetic ties to animals, in a world as fantastical as TMNT, isnt too far a stretch. in fact, when looked at objectively, its kinda fits right in.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

all I'm saying is, suggesting that humans have genetic ties to animals, in a world as fantastical as TMNT, isnt too far a stretch. in fact, when looked at objectively, its kinda fits right in.

It absolutely does not, sorry. If every human is basically a walking latent mutant with "animal genes" waiting to come out, then that means the Turtles aren't "special". That's a core part of the concept, that they're different, that they're neither purely animal nor human. It's why they have to live in hiding. It informs everything that they do and are. If you take that away, you break the entire concept.

For another comparison, it'd be like making the X-Men regular humans instead of mutants (or making everyone else in the world into mutants as well). Or having Superman not be an alien. Y'see? They're all terrible ideas that damage the characters and their concepts irrevocably.

The writers/producers just didn't think it through. No surprise there.

[Allio]

even in fantasy, their must be set rules set in place for things to make sense; if not, it is just bad writing. even with these rules, despite them coming off as juvenile in our world, can still be treated as something as serious and a threat to their world.

For example, Ever After High (at least pre-rebranding) I find as a very consistent show with it's rule (again before Dragon Games) and with it's rules it too has also come across as "dark" and "serious" in it's own right, as it had:
Decapitation
death of a character
possible suicide (?)
all human characters having really ****** lives
A character that literally changed her name just for the fact she hated her lineage (loves her mother, but hated what her mother stood for)
bestiality

it's one of those shows where it has variety, where it could fit just about any theme. Want something cute and fluffy? there is fluffy bunny girl. Want something dark and angsty? There is literally a girl made for suffering (Duchess)

The major problem with the show is that it is mainly a 3minute web series. I mean these characters and stories are most definitly strong enough to hold entire seasons of 24 minutes episodes.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by Bry

It absolutely does not, sorry. If every human is basically a walking latent mutant with "animal genes" waiting to come out, then that means the Turtles aren't "special". That's a core part of the concept, that they're different, that they're neither purely animal nor human. It's why they have to live in hiding. It informs everything that they do and are. If you take that away, you break the entire concept.

of course it does. in the marvel universe, specifically the x-men, ppl carry a dormant x-gene all the time, and never manifest powers, but the ones that do are the ones we care about. nobody cares about the guy who passed along the x-gene to his son, but never manifested a power himself.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Saw this list for upcomming appearances for Stephen Amell.
https://twitter.com/AmellDaily/statu...27688357826560

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiRruJTWEAIER0n.jpg

The premiere in NYC on May 22nd, Interview with Kelly and Michael on May 25th, Interview with Larry King on May 27, TMNT 2 Premiere in Sydney on May 29, Special Fan Screening at Melborne on May 30.

I don't see any listing for appearances on late night talk shows, but I'll be sure to post of any info on upcomming appearances for Megan Fox and Stephen Amell on those late night talk shows sometime.

Obviously this is just Stephens appearances. Megan Fox, possibly the turtle actors and maybe the villain actors will have separate appearances. I expect all the actors will be at New York Premier.

I doubt Megan Fox will be doing too much overseas promotion because of her pregnancy

Even thought the Promotion in the UK is a lot better than 2014, it's a shame there is no London Premier again because of the European Championship which doesn't start until June 12th and is in France.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

3 weeks left til the movie comes out in the US.
https://twitter.com/StephenAmell/sta...03640635592704

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiVm3tIXAAAdifW.jpg

2 weeks and 3 days for me

[Bry]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

of course it does. in the marvel universe, specifically the x-men, ppl carry a dormant x-gene all the time, and never manifest powers, but the ones that do are the ones we care about. nobody cares about the guy who passed along the x-gene to his son, but never manifested a power himself.

Okaaaay, and if every one of those people would manifest powers at any moment under the right circumstances, literally every person on Earth, meaning that everyone is has the gene to be or become a powered mutant, then what would happen to the humans/mutants conflict? It'd change it completely. It would change the entire concept.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by Bry

Okaaaay, and if every one of those people would manifest powers at any moment under the right circumstances, literally every person on Earth, meaning that everyone is has the gene to be or become a powered mutant, then what would happen to the humans/mutants conflict? It'd change it completely. It would change the entire concept.

i agree it would.

all im arguing here is that in a world where 'mutant turtles' can exist, the 'dormant animal gene' doesn't seem so crazy. im not trying to make excuses for it, i just think it fits with the psuedo-science already established.

thats all.

[Bry]

Agree to disagree then.

I mean, it's all fictional pseudoscience, so there's some subjectivity at play here, but I don't think it fits that well compared to the original/previous ideas, along with their own logic and internal consistency. And I really think it's totally at odds with the characters, their world, and the concept's entire appeal. But... again, missing the point is nothing new from these producers.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by Bry

Agree to disagree then.

I mean, it's all fictional pseudoscience, so there's some subjectivity at play here, but I don't think it fits that well compared to the original/previous ideas, along with their own logic and internal consistency. And I really think it's totally at odds with the characters, their world, and the concept's entire appeal. But... again, missing the point is nothing new from these producers.

if they're honest, i really think they went the route of 'dormant animal gene' by simple virtue of the fact the getting actual animals in the laboratory would be cumbersome, and adding them CGI would be a waste of resources since the Turtles themselves I'm sure already cost a lot.

in short, they didnt want to be bothered. and do I agree with you that the producers, and writers for that matter, dont really understand the material as strongly as they should; its clear they are drawing inspiration from the most popular iteration, but not much else.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

if they're honest, i really think they went the route of 'dormant animal gene' by simple virtue of the fact the getting actual animals in the laboratory would be cumbersome, and adding them CGI would be a waste of resources since the Turtles themselves I'm sure already cost a lot.

Y'know, as terrible as it is, I think you hit the nail on the head right there.