Pros & cons about TMNT: OotS' failure at the box office

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by neatoman

After thinking about it I came to a conclusion as to how using the Fred Wolf cartoon as a blueprint for this movie might have been it's downfall, albeit hardly the only reason, the reason nostalgia doesn't seem to work here:

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.

It all might've worked had it not been for the first movie. Imagine the hype there could of been, had all these Fred wolf elements been in the first film's trailers.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.

Oh, so we're calling people who enjoyed the movie "juvenile" and have the mentality of little kids now are we?

Thanks for proving most people against this movie and it's fans have acted way more juvenile than most little kids.

The poll shows a lot of people enjoyed it, so I guess that means we're all "juvenile" to you.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Oh, so we're calling people who enjoyed the movie "juvenile" and have the mentality of little kids now are we?

Thanks for proving most people against this movie and it's fans have acted way more juvenile than most little kids.

The poll shows a lot of people enjoyed it, so I guess that means we're all "juvenile" to you.

It was a joke and I was obviously referring to the movie itself, but clearly you have shown yourself incapable of responding to criticism of this movie in a civil manner on previous occasions, so I can understand this childish response from you. The impression I have of you right now is that you're exactly the kind of person who would feel insecure about their own maturity.

What I meant was that the movie itself is juvenile and looked like it wasn't even remotely intended for adults in any other way than the nostalgia elements, so trying to market this movie towards adults failed because it's fundamentally not the kind of movie most adults are interested in.

Fanservice is a cheap trick, that's why a huge portion people here liked it but they still didn't make a good movie as far as anyone outside the TMNT is concerned. Putting Bebop and Rocksteady in a bad movie doesn't make it a good movie somehow, it just makes it a bad movie with Bebop and Rocksteady in it.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by TerranigmaFreak

Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

As long as it's not an origin story where the turtles are April's pets and she drops them down the sewer I'm ok with that.

[Mulder]

It didn't earn 500 million, it scratched it's way over 400 million.

[NinjaPug]

The failure of the 2nd movie is tied to the 1st movie though. I've said it before but it's tough to build something on a weak foundation. People didn't want to see a sequel to the 2014 movie. Blind nostalgia only gets you so far.

I also wouldn't call the 2014 a financial success either since they barely broke even on it according to reports.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

If this movie is seen as a failure, consider this;

-The first movie, which was hated even more, was a financial success.

-the movie with more turtle screen time, and OT elements, was a financial failure and box office bomb. Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.

-do any of you seriously think their first reaction to fix things this time is going to be a faithful mirage adaptation, rather than just going back to what earned them 500 million the last time?

Think about it.

Exactly lol

[Foombamaroom]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

If this movie is seen as a failure, consider this;

-The first movie, which was hated even more, was a financial success.

-the movie with more turtle screen time, and OT elements, was a financial failure and box office bomb. Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.

-do any of you seriously think their first reaction to fix things this time is going to be a faithful mirage adaptation, rather than just going back to what earned them 500 million the last time?

Think about it.

You're joking right?
Of COURSE the first movie made more money because there was a sense of mystery to it. The mystery of whether or not it'd be good or not. People had hope. And then, that hope was shattered by the April O'Neil movie.

They listened to fans for the second film (More Turtles, less April, Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang) and it came back to bite them in the ass because they screwed up that badly for the first film. They were banking on Bebop and Rocksteady being seat-fillers, but it seems that people don't want to go pay just for nostalgia.



Anywho, the only actual con I can think of for a reboot (unless it's worse than these movies) is the fact that I really like the actors for the Turtles. I saw OOTS the other day (My friend was kind enough to take me, given that I didn't want to pay these bastards.), and quite frankly, those Turtle actors are really good. Everything else was either 'meh' or 'somewhat acceptable', though. The movie's god-tier compared to the first one, though. It's still bad, but it's like it's self-aware that it's bad. "That's how I roll. That's how you roll." Someone was paid to write this.

But on the upside, maybe they could get actual teenagers to play/voice the Turtles. It'd make it sound more authentic.

[beeshaw]

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

Anywho, the only actual con I can think of for a reboot (unless it's worse than these movies) is the fact that I really like the actors for the Turtles. I saw OOTS the other day (My friend was kind enough to take me, given that I didn't want to pay these bastards.), and quite frankly, those Turtle actors are really good. Everything else was either 'meh' or 'somewhat acceptable', though.

Same. They've been the lone bright spot in both movies. I'd like to see those 4 (6 I guess since I did enjoy Bebop and Rocksteady) continue, but do another soft reboot and get back to basics. Make it street level. Give us some actual fight scenes.

[Krutch]

There's a big reason why it wasn't a financial success that most people aren't talking about. Aside from it not being a good movie, kids didn't like it the first time out. This wasn't a movie they watched over and over on Netflix. It was a movie they'd watch once and usually get distracted with something else halfway through. Parents see this, and so when the sequel comes out, they have no reason to shell out the bucks to take them to a movie their kids care for the first time around.

Then there's the whole issue of teenagers to adults simply not liking the movie.

I do think if OOTS was the first movie out the gate, it would have been a much larger success than the first one. It's pacing, humour, and action would have kept the kids entertained while all the Fred Wolf pandering would have appeased the adults.

As far as Cons go... well, someones gotta be looking at trends.

TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT III underperformed...
TMNT (2007) underperformed...
TMNT (2014) underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT OOTS underperformed..

..and none of them are critical hits.

At some point someones gonna start believing TMNT works best just as a TV franchise that can move toys by itself and the big movie investment isn't quite worth it. I know some people want different things, whether it be an adaptation of Mirage, IDW, 2k3... but in order for these things to eventaully happen, the franchise needs to show it can still pull in money.

It's not rocket science, guys. The more successful the franchise, the longer legs it gets, the more chances it gets to make the version you want to see. So while the Platinum Dunes Turtles are sooooo far away from the Turtles movie I'd like to see, I hope it succeeds enough to warrant the franchise getting another look.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

While this movie may be making less at the box office, I'm willing to bet it's making more merch sales than the first movie... 'cause B&R, duh.

I mean, those Bebop and Rocksteady action figures look pretty great; I'd rather buy those than the Nick versions. The Turtles are, of course, atrocious. Same for Shredder. Nick versions all the way.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Krutch

There's a big reason why it wasn't a financial success that most people aren't talking about. Aside from it not being a good movie, kids didn't like it the first time out. This wasn't a movie they watched over and over on Netflix. It was a movie they'd watch once and usually get distracted with something else halfway through. Parents see this, and so when the sequel comes out, they have no reason to shell out the bucks to take them to a movie their kids care for the first time around.

Then there's the whole issue of teenagers to adults simply not liking the movie.

I do think if OOTS was the first movie out the gate, it would have been a much larger success than the first one. It's pacing, humour, and action would have kept the kids entertained while all the Fred Wolf pandering would have appeased the adults.

As far as Cons go... well, someones gotta be looking at trends.

TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT III underperformed...
TMNT (2007) underperformed...
TMNT (2014) underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT OOTS underperformed..

..and none of them are critical hits.

At some point someones gonna start believing TMNT works best just as a TV franchise that can move toys by itself and the big movie investment isn't quite worth it. I know some people want different things, whether it be an adaptation of Mirage, IDW, 2k3... but in order for these things to eventaully happen, the franchise needs to show it can still pull in money.

It's not rocket science, guys. The more successful the franchise, the longer legs it gets, the more chances it gets to make the version you want to see. So while the Platinum Dunes Turtles are sooooo far away from the Turtles movie I'd like to see, I hope it succeeds enough to warrant the franchise getting another look.

There is some truth to this. My son hated the 2014 movie. He loved OOTS. He was interested and laughing almost the whole movie. However if I hadn't been a big TMNT fan myself I may have ignored his asking to go see this after seeing the trailers on Nick. Although without him I may have waited to see this until it hit DVD.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.

1. If you support the film franchise, you continue to get terrible movies.

2. If you don't support the film franchise, you run the risk of never getting big-screen TMNT again in the current film-going generation.

Myself, I do honestly prefer the second option...

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Krutch

TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed

Did it? I see it ranked as the 12th highest grossing movie of the year.

[Krutch]

Secret of the Ooze had double the budget and pulled in about half of what the first one did, so yeah, I'd say that probably fell below expectations.

It also played in more theatres than any other movie did that year to boot.

[Autbot_Benz]

Cons

1.Karai Wasted again
2. Shredder not fighting
3. more splinter would have been nice. I kinda wish he had an opening monolouge like in the 2014 movie.

[sdp]

Well I think for Andrew having TMNT 2 be inspired by the OT is a huge pro for you. Here you have the two things you hate being mixed into one interpretation so next movie version of the turtles won't have either.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

Well I think for Andrew having TMNT 2 be inspired by the OT is a huge pro for you. Here you have the two things you hate being mixed into one interpretation so next movie version of the turtles won't have either.

Very true. I'm very, very OK with both being dropped into a barrel and napalmed simultaneously.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.

Listening to the 'Most vocal Fans'? Which ones were those?

Because they weren't listening to me, my friends, and other folks on here.

We wanted Turtles that didn't look like crap, used Martial Arts, had real/concrete relationships between each other, didn't want Megan Fox (should have just recast her), didn't want fart/dick jokes, the characters to go to the Grown Up Table instead of stuck at the kiddie table/kiddie pool, and more.

And we're the 'most vocal' fans.

They didn't do that. They didn't 'listen'.

So which ones were you referring to? To the people who were complaining about not getting Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, and that's it?

If that's the case, then maybe they listened to the wrong 'vocal fans'.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

So which ones were you referring to? To the people who were complaining about not getting Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, and that's it?

Pretty much just those. And Angry Nintendo Nerd and Black Nerd and probably Ivey (no offense) and taking that as our spokespeople.