Turtles evaluated by a Martial Artist

The Turtle Hermit · 07-14-2016, 03:36 PM

My opinion on the turtles as Martial Artists starting with Michelangelo. Mikey, aka the cute one, has the most natural talent of all the turtles. Despite his raw natural ability he is the least capable turtle of the group. Mikey is never shown training on his own accord outside of Master Splinters mandated lessons. If he does attempt to train on his own it likely doesn't last for long, and he most assuredly has an ulterior motive besides self improvement. For example I can see him using his kusarigama (12 feet of chain with a small sci known as a comma on one end and a metal ball on the other) to retrieve a far away object like the television remote. While he is the least capable turtle he is still a slightly better fighter than Donatello because of his raw speed and ability to act quickly without thinking. Michelangelo’s focus is on having fun, and gives little attention to knowledge and self improvement. He spends his free time skateboarding, eating pizza, watching television, and smoking weed, occasionally with Raphael. He does not put a lot into his everyday thoughts, but they are each of them sincere and from the heart. Despite his intelligence score Mikey is actually the second wisest turtle after Leonardo, this is likely due to brief moments of deep unconventional thought while smoking. This is shown with his interaction with Leatherhead when they first meet. If Mikey were to train as Ralph does he would be as well rounded as Leo, and if he were to train as Leo he would likely rival master splinter himself.

Next let’s discuss Donatello, our most handy and intelligent turtle. While Donny is the group's greatest asset, he is the weakest fighter. This is because he puts entirely to much thought into his actions, on top of that he has the slowest weapon of the four. This combination makes him the slowest fighter among them. In hindsight the bow staff is not the wisest choice of weapon for him, but it is a good representation of his passive character. In fact each of the turtles weapons are a representation of their fighting mind. The chucks are quick, flexible, naturally powerful and the most fun to use, but they can also be self destructive. The sci are a brawling weapon for up close and personal combat, designed to disarm and to be an extension of the natural punch. The katana is an elegant weapon of precision and finesse, they lead the way to understanding most other weapons. Donatello spends his spare time in his laboratory whipping up whatever invention. He likely spends some time training outside of class, and I would guess that he does this in secret because he is slightly ashamed of being the worst fighter.

Now let’s talk about Raphael the least understood among his brothers. Raphael has the second most natural ability after Mikey, and the second most discipline to his training after Leo. This combination makes him the number one fighter in the group. His greatest weakness is his unwillingness to study deeper the philosophy of the arts he is taught. Without said philosophies to guide his ideals, he often blames himself unknowingly for every loss or mistake. Believing that if he is not the strongest he cannot protect the ones he loves. Because he does not understand these feelings he often grows irritable and lashes out at those around him. This holds back his ability to grow as a fighter, and will one day allow Leo to surpass him.

Now let us gab on Leonardo, our most well rounded turtle. Leo pays the most attention to his training, in both the physical and philosophical aspects. He isn’t an over thinker nor a deep thinker, but he is a quick, sure, and effective thinker. He knows how to balance his ideals, but tends to be overly forceful with them. Leonardo does not have the most natural talent, but he is persistent and determined. If he keeps his current path he will be well on his way to equaling Master Splinter. He was the best choice for leader, and knows his brothers capabilities and how to use them effectively as a team.

Lastly I'll briefly touch up on master splinter himself. I suspect that in his youth he was a loose representation of all four turtles. It is easy to think the writers would want Splinter to see himself in each of his sons, and this in itself is a good reason why the turtles are so well trained. TMNT, in my opinion, is one of the greatest cartoons to date and consistently teaches its viewers valuable lessons that have too long been forsaken in our society. From learning discipline, respect, teamwork, trust, emotional control, bravery, sacrifice, honesty, loyalty, and a correct mindset. Not only this, but it is a good source of real life martial arts lessons. I appreciate the effort and thought put into this show, and I hope others will as well.

~~Etsyturtle2~~ · 07-16-2016, 10:00 PM

Comma, Sci, bow staff?

WEED?!

*Powder* · 07-16-2016, 10:05 PM

This is a bunch of headcanon nonsense.

~~Etsyturtle2~~ · 07-16-2016, 10:10 PM

Ursalink · 07-16-2016, 10:11 PM

A very good analysis, Turtle Hermit.

Since you make such an excelent evaluation, what would you say about some other characters? What would you say about the Shredder, Karai, the Foot Clan in general, and April. Personally, the only way I can describe the Shredder is "complete insanity".

*Powder* · 07-16-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ursalink

A very good analysis, Turtle Hermit.

Nobody likes a contrarian.

At what point did you see Michelangelo smoking weed?

This dude is stating a bunch of opinions as facts.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 07-16-2016, 10:18 PM

I really miss the days when Donatello wasn't automatically the weakest fighter. Now he's the "nerdy pushover in the girly purple mask with a gap tooth and scotch-tape glasses and a crush on April because he's in looooooooooove."

Even IDW has reduced Donnie and Mike to the weaker fighters... remember when Donatello was a stone-cold badass and killed Shredder? In the very first freaking appearance of the Turtles (Mirage TMNT Vol 1 #1)?

*Powder* · 07-16-2016, 10:19 PM

I wouldn't say Donnie is the weakest fighter, though. There really isn't one in this series. Donnie has saved the day a bunch of times. This is just one guy talking out his shell.

~~Etsyturtle2~~ · 07-16-2016, 10:22 PM

He's just "blowing smoke".

You know that was funny.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 07-16-2016, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

I wouldn't say Donnie is the weakest fighter, though. There really isn't one in this series. Donnie has saved the day a bunch of times. This is just one guy talking out his shell.

Yeah, but glancing over his headcanon stuff was a jumping off point in my mind to what a lot of people seem to think of Donnie, even diehard fans.

It vexes me, comrade...

~~Commenter 42~~ · 07-16-2016, 10:26 PM

Wouldn't the weakest fighter weild the deadliest weapon, as compensation?
Bruce Lee showed just how deadly nunchucks could be, in the hands of the right person.

So, wouldn't it be, Nunchaku, Bo, Sai, Katana/Ninjato?

*Powder* · 07-16-2016, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah, but glancing over his headcanon stuff was a jumping off point in my mind to what a lot of people seem to think of Donnie, even diehard fans.

It vexes me, comrade...

Reality & fandoms are no different, the quiet & deep will always be misunderstood & thought of as inferior. Whatever. Real heads know Donnie is a top dog. In Mirage he beat Shredder, had the most wins in FW, time traveled to save the world in Archie, was the best player in Tournament Fighters, & provided grade-A tech across all iterations in addition to being as physically fit as his peers. Forget all that noise about him being weak, it's malarky. & what's "weak" gauged by anyway? The bo is an excellent weapon, & his wits have proven deadly too. That makes him very strong in my book.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 07-16-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Reality & fandoms are no different, the quiet & deep will always be misunderstood & thought of as inferior. Whatever. Real heads know Donnie is a top dog. In Mirage he beat Shredder, had the most wins in FW, time traveled to save the world in Archie, was the best player in Tournament Fighters, & provided grade-A tech across other iterations in addition to being as physically fit as his peers. Forget all that noise about him being weak.

Hey, WE know Donnie's a total BAMF. It's not all "duz machines."

But I totally hear you on the "misunderstood because quiet and introspective." And we are Turtle fans... our fandom doesn't get much respect regardless...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Wouldn't the weakest fighter weild the deadliest weapon, as compensation?
Bruce Lee showed just how deadly nunchucks could be, in the hands of the right person.

EXACTLY. You handicap your best fighter with a weaker weapon. I'd love to see Raphael portrayed as the weakest fighter who compensates with his viciousness and anger.

*victory_angel* · 07-16-2016, 10:57 PM

Donnie isn't the weakest fighter of the group. But he is a different sort of fighter than the rest of his brothers. Donnie hasn't actually realized or accepted this aspect of himself. Which is why he comes across as a weaker fighter at times, particularly to his brothers and especially Raph.

During an unaired episode of Heroes in a Half-Cast we surmised that Donnie has the same problem as Mikey. Michelangelo has more raw talent as a fighter than his three older brothers combined but can't reach his full potential because he doesn't focus. Donatello has a similar problem, in that he's trying to be exactly like his brothers in combat because he feels that is what is expected of him. But he can't reach his full potential because he is too focused on being something he's not.

In battle, the most dangerous enemy is the person you fail to see. And even the Foot Clan and other villains in the show don't particularly see Donnie as any sort of threat towards them which is why he is often tossed aside as though he doesn't matter or he's taken out first simply for that same reason. Even when Dregg noted that he only had three of the four Turtles. He still regards Donatello's absence as no real consequence. And at times the villains completely disregard or don't realize what Donnie is doing until it is too late.

In the T.o.t.T.L. comic on the nick site. During the flashback in Donnie's side of the story, Donatello does tell Splinter 'that no matter how hard he trains, he feels he can't keep up with his brothers.' That line alone does imply that he trains a more then the series suggests, and just because we don't see him showing the same level of dedication to his training Leo. It doesn't mean spends every waking moment puttering in his lab.

In fact, there have been training sessions where he has excelled or made even more of an effort then Raph and Mikey. The lesson during Baxter's gambit is proof of this.

As for the Mikey smoking weed part, I think they implying that one point in the Invasion of the Squirrelanoids episode where Raph and Mikey were hanging out in Mikey's room like a couple of stoners. While pot wasn't really used, the four-day old pizza that Mikey had in his room may have had a similar kind of effect to smoking weed. That and the topping choices for pizza sound like something someone would have while on the munchies phase.

*Candy Kappa* · 07-17-2016, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Wouldn't the weakest fighter weild the deadliest weapon, as compensation?

As for deadliest weapon it really depends on the Bo and Katana, so by that regards, Leo and Donnie would be the weaker fighters..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah, but glancing over his headcanon stuff was a jumping off point in my mind to what a lot of people seem to think of Donnie, even diehard fans.

It vexes me, comrade...

I think it's a combination that Donnie often seem to overthink things, wields "a dumb stick" and he's the nerd.

Splinter the boss · 07-17-2016, 08:41 AM

I do NOT know where this "smoking weed" comes from. Besides it's a kid show, I don't think they would relay a message of that sort.

The Happy One · 07-17-2016, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Hey, WE know Donnie's a total BAMF. It's not all "duz machines."

But I totally hear you on the "misunderstood because quiet and introspective." And we are Turtle fans... our fandom doesn't get much respect regardless...

EXACTLY. You handicap your best fighter with a weaker weapon. I'd love to see Raphael portrayed as the weakest fighter who compensates with his viciousness and anger.

This. I hate, hate, hate headcons that label Donnie as the weakest fighter. There is no weakest. They all fight in different ways that make them capable in battle. And, yeah, Don has kicked ass plenty of times so....

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 07-18-2016, 03:00 AM

Really good analysis, I enjoyed reading it

Thank you for putting the time and effort into making it and I would love to read any other analysis threads you make.

Technogeek29 · 07-19-2016, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I really miss the days when Donatello wasn't automatically the weakest fighter. Now he's the "nerdy pushover in the girly purple mask with a gap tooth and scotch-tape glasses and a crush on April because he's in looooooooooove."

Even IDW has reduced Donnie and Mike to the weaker fighters... remember when Donatello was a stone-cold badass and killed Shredder? In the very first freaking appearance of the Turtles (Mirage TMNT Vol 1 #1)?

I don't think it's fair to judge Don by his fight with the IDW versions of Bebop & Rocksteady those two are high neigh invulnerable. And Mikey ends of fighting those two the most oddly enough. He did knocked out Koya with a motorcycle.

The Happy One · 07-19-2016, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

I don't think it's fair to judge Don by his fight with the IDW versions of Bebop & Rocksteady those two are high neigh invulnerable. And Mikey ends of fighting those two the most oddly enough. He did knocked out Koya with a motorcycle.

Well that is very true. As far as IDW goes, I think they've kept Mikey and Don pretty skilled- in that everybody knows just how powerful they are. Just those few pages in 50 when Don came back- completely badass if you ask me. And Mikey lands great hits on Shredder that none of his brothers got.

I just think in IDW they like to focus on their power in other ways than just fighting. We look at Donnie and I've found, particularly in this comic series, that Don is incredibly cunning, he uses his wits to really do a number on his enemies- rather than just full on attack them. It's that secrecy and cunning way that is what makes Donnie a ninja. Ninja are cunning like that; his skill, what makes him powerful is that aspect of Ninjutsu.

Mikey has a ferocity about him that's seldom unleashed, but I think his kindness and his goodness makes him powerful. It may look like it makes him weaker but it's what drives Mikes to fight with honor, to protect his family the right way. I think it's what separates Mikey from others because he chooses to keep battle as battle. They're the bad guys, they need to be set straight. There's a fire in him, but one that he's probably the best a keeping balanced.

That's just what I can infer anyway.

07-16-2016, 10:18 PM	#7
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy Annalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 16,435	I really miss the days when Donatello wasn't automatically the weakest fighter. Now he's the "nerdy pushover in the girly purple mask with a gap tooth and scotch-tape glasses and a crush on April because he's in looooooooooove." Even IDW has reduced Donnie and Mike to the weaker fighters... remember when Donatello was a stone-cold badass and killed Shredder? In the very first freaking appearance of the Turtles (Mirage TMNT Vol 1 #1)? __________________ *ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED*

07-16-2016, 10:57 PM	#14
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	Donnie isn't the weakest fighter of the group. But he is a different sort of fighter than the rest of his brothers. Donnie hasn't actually realized or accepted this aspect of himself. Which is why he comes across as a weaker fighter at times, particularly to his brothers and especially Raph. During an unaired episode of Heroes in a Half-Cast we surmised that Donnie has the same problem as Mikey. Michelangelo has more raw talent as a fighter than his three older brothers combined but can't reach his full potential because he doesn't focus. Donatello has a similar problem, in that he's trying to be exactly like his brothers in combat because he feels that is what is expected of him. But he can't reach his full potential because he is too focused on being something he's not. In battle, the most dangerous enemy is the person you fail to see. And even the Foot Clan and other villains in the show don't particularly see Donnie as any sort of threat towards them which is why he is often tossed aside as though he doesn't matter or he's taken out first simply for that same reason. Even when Dregg noted that he only had three of the four Turtles. He still regards Donatello's absence as no real consequence. And at times the villains completely disregard or don't realize what Donnie is doing until it is too late. In the T.o.t.T.L. comic on the nick site. During the flashback in Donnie's side of the story, Donatello does tell Splinter 'that no matter how hard he trains, he feels he can't keep up with his brothers.' That line alone does imply that he trains a more then the series suggests, and just because we don't see him showing the same level of dedication to his training Leo. It doesn't mean spends every waking moment puttering in his lab. In fact, there have been training sessions where he has excelled or made even more of an effort then Raph and Mikey. The lesson during Baxter's gambit is proof of this. As for the Mikey smoking weed part, I think they implying that one point in the Invasion of the Squirrelanoids episode where Raph and Mikey were hanging out in Mikey's room like a couple of stoners. While pot wasn't really used, the four-day old pizza that Mikey had in his room may have had a similar kind of effect to smoking weed. That and the topping choices for pizza sound like something someone would have while on the munchies phase. __________________ Last edited by victory_angel; 07-16-2016 at 11:20 PM.

07-17-2016, 08:41 AM	#16
Splinter the boss Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: USA Posts: 938	I do NOT know where this "smoking weed" comes from. Besides it's a kid show, I don't think they would relay a message of that sort. __________________ "I am absolute, lower your head!"

07-14-2016, 03:36 PM	#1
The Turtle Hermit New Recruit Join Date: May 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 1	Turtles evaluated by a Martial Artist My opinion on the turtles as Martial Artists starting with Michelangelo. Mikey, aka the cute one, has the most natural talent of all the turtles. Despite his raw natural ability he is the least capable turtle of the group. Mikey is never shown training on his own accord outside of Master Splinters mandated lessons. If he does attempt to train on his own it likely doesn't last for long, and he most assuredly has an ulterior motive besides self improvement. For example I can see him using his kusarigama (12 feet of chain with a small sci known as a comma on one end and a metal ball on the other) to retrieve a far away object like the television remote. While he is the least capable turtle he is still a slightly better fighter than Donatello because of his raw speed and ability to act quickly without thinking. Michelangelo’s focus is on having fun, and gives little attention to knowledge and self improvement. He spends his free time skateboarding, eating pizza, watching television, and smoking weed, occasionally with Raphael. He does not put a lot into his everyday thoughts, but they are each of them sincere and from the heart. Despite his intelligence score Mikey is actually the second wisest turtle after Leonardo, this is likely due to brief moments of deep unconventional thought while smoking. This is shown with his interaction with Leatherhead when they first meet. If Mikey were to train as Ralph does he would be as well rounded as Leo, and if he were to train as Leo he would likely rival master splinter himself. Next let’s discuss Donatello, our most handy and intelligent turtle. While Donny is the group's greatest asset, he is the weakest fighter. This is because he puts entirely to much thought into his actions, on top of that he has the slowest weapon of the four. This combination makes him the slowest fighter among them. In hindsight the bow staff is not the wisest choice of weapon for him, but it is a good representation of his passive character. In fact each of the turtles weapons are a representation of their fighting mind. The chucks are quick, flexible, naturally powerful and the most fun to use, but they can also be self destructive. The sci are a brawling weapon for up close and personal combat, designed to disarm and to be an extension of the natural punch. The katana is an elegant weapon of precision and finesse, they lead the way to understanding most other weapons. Donatello spends his spare time in his laboratory whipping up whatever invention. He likely spends some time training outside of class, and I would guess that he does this in secret because he is slightly ashamed of being the worst fighter. Now let’s talk about Raphael the least understood among his brothers. Raphael has the second most natural ability after Mikey, and the second most discipline to his training after Leo. This combination makes him the number one fighter in the group. His greatest weakness is his unwillingness to study deeper the philosophy of the arts he is taught. Without said philosophies to guide his ideals, he often blames himself unknowingly for every loss or mistake. Believing that if he is not the strongest he cannot protect the ones he loves. Because he does not understand these feelings he often grows irritable and lashes out at those around him. This holds back his ability to grow as a fighter, and will one day allow Leo to surpass him. Now let us gab on Leonardo, our most well rounded turtle. Leo pays the most attention to his training, in both the physical and philosophical aspects. He isn’t an over thinker nor a deep thinker, but he is a quick, sure, and effective thinker. He knows how to balance his ideals, but tends to be overly forceful with them. Leonardo does not have the most natural talent, but he is persistent and determined. If he keeps his current path he will be well on his way to equaling Master Splinter. He was the best choice for leader, and knows his brothers capabilities and how to use them effectively as a team. Lastly I'll briefly touch up on master splinter himself. I suspect that in his youth he was a loose representation of all four turtles. It is easy to think the writers would want Splinter to see himself in each of his sons, and this in itself is a good reason why the turtles are so well trained. TMNT, in my opinion, is one of the greatest cartoons to date and consistently teaches its viewers valuable lessons that have too long been forsaken in our society. From learning discipline, respect, teamwork, trust, emotional control, bravery, sacrifice, honesty, loyalty, and a correct mindset. Not only this, but it is a good source of real life martial arts lessons. I appreciate the effort and thought put into this show, and I hope others will as well.

07-16-2016, 10:00 PM	#2
~~Etsyturtle2~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: stuff Posts: 1,721	Comma, Sci, bow staff? WEED?!

07-16-2016, 10:05 PM	#3
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,956	This is a bunch of headcanon nonsense.

07-16-2016, 10:10 PM	#4
~~Etsyturtle2~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: stuff Posts: 1,721

07-16-2016, 10:11 PM	#5
Ursalink Foot Soldier Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 136	A very good analysis, Turtle Hermit. Since you make such an excelent evaluation, what would you say about some other characters? What would you say about the Shredder, Karai, the Foot Clan in general, and April. Personally, the only way I can describe the Shredder is "complete insanity".

07-16-2016, 10:19 PM	#8
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,956	I wouldn't say Donnie is the weakest fighter, though. There really isn't one in this series. Donnie has saved the day a bunch of times. This is just one guy talking out his shell.

07-16-2016, 10:22 PM	#9
~~Etsyturtle2~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: stuff Posts: 1,721	He's just "blowing smoke". You know that was funny.

07-16-2016, 10:26 PM	#11
~~Commenter 42~~ Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,954	Wouldn't the weakest fighter weild the deadliest weapon, as compensation? Bruce Lee showed just how deadly nunchucks could be, in the hands of the right person. So, wouldn't it be, Nunchaku, Bo, Sai, Katana/Ninjato?