TMNT 2 Box Office Predictions and Results

[Vicky82]

The Worldwide total is now up to $210M

Domestic: $80,845,917
Foreign: $150,300,000
Worldwide: $231,964,917

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...d=tmnt2016.htm

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Back on topic, it's made enough to keep the brand from being box office poision, but not enough for a sequel. The way things have gone here, I see one of two possible scenarios; either one- we get a soft reboot, with more focus on catering to the overseas markets, new turtle designs and tone. Or 2.) a total reboot, most likely based on Nick or IDW turtles (I'd hope beyond hope for archie, but it's too old or obscure). Mirage isn't marketable and kid-friendly, and I could see the new co-owners of Paramout overseas and Hong-Kong based Playmates (two of the big moneymakers with a reason to keep the franchise going) preventing the grim 'n gritty turtles from surfacing.The one piece of hopeful news this might mean is the possible departure of Bay and co. Even the most clueless can see Platinum Dunes blew it.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Even the most clueless can see Platinum Dunes blew it.

if that was true there wouldn't be as much arguing and drama on this forum. Obviously not.

[Leolead]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Back on topic, it's made enough to keep the brand from being box office poision, but not enough for a sequel. The way things have gone here, I see one of two possible scenarios; either one- we get a soft reboot, with more focus on catering to the overseas markets, new turtle designs and tone. Or 2.) a total reboot, most likely based on Nick or IDW turtles (I'd hope beyond hope for archie, but it's too old or obscure). Mirage isn't marketable and kid-friendly, and I could see the new co-owners of Paramout overseas and Hong-Kong based Playmates (two of the big moneymakers with a reason to keep the franchise going) preventing the grim 'n gritty turtles from surfacing.The one piece of hopeful news this might mean is the possible departure of Bay and co. Even the most clueless can see Platinum Dunes blew it.

"Mirage aren't marketable" y'know, they probably said the same thing about Batman before the Burton films.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Leolead

"Mirage aren't marketable" y'know, they probably said the same thing about Batman before the Burton films.

People need to stop comparing this franchise to batman. I'm not dissing Mirage at all. But getting the public to go and see 'grim n' gritty turtles' is a hard sell and an uphill battle from the studio's POV, and Playmates and Viacom are NOT going to take that risk. Do I think the public would go see a purely mirage movie? Yes, but it would have to be done 100% absolutely right, or it falls on it's face. Do I think that risk is ever going to be taken? The way things stand, no. IDW and Nick are the more safe and marketable choices, and I think the studio will go to one of those wells, first.

As to that first Burton Batman film, I'm one of the few people who didn't like it. They should have gone with Denny O' Neil's Batman from the seventies- dark avenger of the night, but not an over-the-top loon like in Frank Miller's drek. B:TAS was the perfect balance, inmho. (Though I hate the new batman adventures and batman beyond, yech!)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Here's a thing:

Bay could always spin a Transformers/TMNT crossover movie in hopes of revitalizing his Turtles franchise.

Krang allied with Megatron? You know it could happen...

[Galactus]

Thing is after decades of people vehemently arguing that people the Fred Wolf elements and tone is the sure fire way to success and in the end that was the one movie that fell flat on it's face.

If anything when it comes to movies from now on Nickledeon and Viacom should give any suggestion of anything less than a serious approach an uphill battle. At the end of the day more people chose to watch the 2014 movie which was doing everything "wrong" than Out of the Shadows which was doing everything people argued TMNT should. If they are giving thought to another TMNT they should consider that.

Normally I'd advocate an MCU approach and tone but they really tried that with Out of the Shadows (poor movie was trying to hard to be the Avengers at times) and it didn't that if there another movie it has to be distinctly different in it's look and tone and frankly why ignore a story that works (and has been successfully adapted to cinema in 1990) - this is by no means saying we should have a panel for panel adaption but anything different to a back a basics approach is not going to work.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

People need to stop comparing this franchise to batman. I'm not dissing Mirage at all. But getting the public to go and see 'grim n' gritty turtles' is a hard sell and an uphill battle from the studio's POV, and Playmates and Viacom are NOT going to take that risk. Do I think the public would go see a purely mirage movie? Yes, but it would have to be done 100% absolutely right, or it falls on it's face. Do I think that risk is ever going to be taken? The way things stand, no. IDW and Nick are the more safe and marketable choices, and I think the studio will go to one of those wells, first.

Really getting tired of you trying to make this argument.

The first film (1990) was a 75% Mirage film & remains the highest grossing, most beloved, & best aged film of all 6 (7 if you argue Turtles Forever). Mirage was not all "grim & gritty", it just knew when to take things seriously. 1990 is a pastiche of stories taken right outta the early comics & there's no reason the same approach can't be taken again to much success. It was visually dark & grimey, there was violence, drama, but it was also full of love, life, & humor. Mirage is the same.

You adapt elements of the first two issues- Origins, Baxter Stockman, Mousers, April, establishing the modern day Foot Clan, tease Shredder, it's all classic & compelling material that can be done in a tone that satisfies all sorts of fans. That may not be what you want, but there's no way it would fail if done properly. & like Barron did, you can combine certain elements, have Baxter's operations be a branch of Saki's company, which could also have ties to TCRI (or not). You've got characters like Leatherhead & Rat King who are fan favorites for casuals because they went on to be staples in the OT. Fugitoid & a Triceraton had popular toys back in the day, they too could be of interest to those people should a sequel warrant intergalactic shenanigans. There's an entire generation of kids who will be nostalgic for the 4kids series by the time this sorta thing could come to fruition.

The only un-Miraging they'd potentially have to do is give them rainbow masks, which is a compromise I'm sure most would be willing to make. Plus, like IDW, you can always start them off in red & have that change due to something like the turtles wanting to express themselves, or for the sake of the humans who can't tell them apart.

Is going Mirage the best route? I dunno, but it's most certainly a viable option.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I agree a serious approach is the answer, buuuut....

1.) I honestly believe viacom and playmates will put a cap on how dark it goes, and;

2.) I don't see any new film just sticking to one version of TMNT for their adaptation, they will pull elements from everywhere. The only people who create those 'magic lines' that divide what what TMNT character/element came from which universe/continuity is a hardcore fan thing. Now that Viacom is running the show, nobody else will play along with us on that game.

3.) Nick and IDW are the most sucsessful TMNT product they've had (IDW is a niche product, but it's sucsessful in the realm of what it is). If Paramount decides to do a TMNT film 'based on the comics', I don't see them caring the specific details differences between Mirage and IDW.

[CyberCubed]

Also before 1989 Batman came out the 60's era Adam West Batman was the best known version.

If the general public can go from seeing Batman as a goofy 60's era crimefighter to a (back then) dark 1989 serious take on the character, they can do it with TMNT. Also of note is the 1989 movie came out roughly 20 years after the 60's show. For TMNT roughly 20 years have passed since the height of Turtlemania too.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I agree a serious approach is the answer, buuuut....

1.) I honestly believe viacom and playmates will put a cap on how dark it goes,

What the hell do you think people want from a serious take? Beheadings? Sex? F-bombs? It doesn't need to be any darker than the Nick series or first film.

Viacom has been fairly generous in that respect, no? Our comics have blood & swearing, some death, our 'toon has body horror, intense action. It'd be fine.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Powder

Really getting tired of you trying to make this argument.

The first film (1990) was a 75% Mirage film & remains the highest grossing, most beloved, & best aged film of all 6 (7 if you argue Turtles Forever). Mirage was not all "grim & gritty", it just knew when to take things seriously. 1990 is a pastiche of stories taken right outta the early comics & there's no reason the same approach can't be taken again to much success. It was visually dark & grimey, there was violence, drama, but it was also full of love, life, & humor. Mirage is the same.

You adapt elements of the first two issues- Origins, Baxter Stockman, Mousers, April, establishing the modern day Foot Clan, tease Shredder, it's all classic & compelling material that can be done in a tone that satisfies all sorts of fans. That may not be what you want, but there's no way it would fail if done properly. & like Barron did, you can combine certain elements, have Baxter's operations be a branch of Saki's company, which could also have ties to TCRI (or not). You've got characters like Leatherhead & Rat King who are fan favorites for casuals because they went on to be staples in the OT. Fugitoid & a Triceraton had popular toys back in the day, they too could be of interest to those people should a sequel warrant intergalactic shenanigans. There's an entire generation of kids who will be nostalgic for the 4kids series by the time this sorta thing could come to fruition.

The only un-Miraging they'd potentially have to do is give them rainbow masks, which is a compromise I'm sure most would be willing to make. Plus, like IDW, you can always start them off in red & have that change due to something like the turtles wanting to express themselves, or for the sake of the humans who can't tell them apart.

Is going Mirage the best route? I dunno, but it's most certainly a viable option.

I am not saying mirage couldn't work, I never said it couldn't work. It could work in the hands of the right director. I'm saying the chances of a pure mirage adaptation from the studio are as unlikely as heck. They don't make the divisions on TMNT versions we fans do, and the chances of seeing 'pure mirage' without elements and characters from other versions are extremely low. It's possible, but unlikely. The best I foresee is a darker and more series take on nick, or some variance on the idw series. Both IDW and the NIck series have been more profitable more recently than pure mirage currently is.

I don't hate Mirage. But Mirage means more to the fanbase, than it does to those in power.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Here's a thing:

Bay could always spin a Transformers/TMNT crossover movie in hopes of revitalizing his Turtles franchise.

Krang allied with Megatron? You know it could happen...

Ah, what the hell. At this point, do it - provided it's from the Turtle's perspective. Let the Turtles replace the human actors. No humans except smaller supporting roles and extras allowed. Use the potential of Megan Fox's role being confusing as reason to keep her out.



Though what I'd really love to see is take these 'realistic' real-world-ish Turtles and do a crossover comic film with Daredevil. Too bad different owners prob means it can't happen.

[RETTEB SNATAS]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

People need to stop comparing this franchise to batman. I'm not dissing Mirage at all. But getting the public to go and see 'grim n' gritty turtles' is a hard sell and an uphill battle from the studio's POV, and Playmates and Viacom are NOT going to take that risk. Do I think the public would go see a purely mirage movie? Yes, but it would have to be done 100% absolutely right, or it falls on it's face. Do I think that risk is ever going to be taken? The way things stand, no. IDW and Nick are the more safe and marketable choices, and I think the studio will go to one of those wells, first.

As to that first Burton Batman film, I'm one of the few people who didn't like it. They should have gone with Denny O' Neil's Batman from the seventies- dark avenger of the night, but not an over-the-top loon like in Frank Miller's drek. B:TAS was the perfect balance, inmho. (Though I hate the new batman adventures and batman beyond, yech!)

I respectfully disagree. I think if done right with the right people, fast and super intense fight choreography, a few laughs ( marvel does this well) beautiful cinematography and a great story? I think people would flock to see it. I was just a child when the first one came out and my friends and I couldn't get enough of it. And imo the first film was very dark and grim. Its worth a try dammit

[Powder]

For sure, & when you consider that the most popular fan art on social media is similarly dark & "serious", it's clear there is a market for it. People want most things they grew up with to grow up with them.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

The Worldwide total is now up to $210M

Domestic: $80,845,917
Foreign: $150,300,000
Worldwide: $231,964,917

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...d=tmnt2016.htm

I guess when you factor in the marketing and product tie-in budget, they probably came close to breaking even. Oh well, guess they can look forward to the "home video" sales in a couple of months!

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I guess when you factor in the marketing and product tie-in budget, they probably came close to breaking even. Oh well, guess they can look forward to the "home video" sales in a couple of months!

No, they aren't close to breaking even. Studios split the box office with the theaters.

[Galactus]

The whole idea of doing a mix and match TMNT sounds good in theory but it takes someone who knows the franchise so well to make elements that don't naturally fit together work well.

It works in IDW because Waltz is a fan and has a lot of issues to flesh these concepts out. The same is true but to a lesser extent with the Nickelodeon animated series.

Platinum Dunes did try to some extent but it just didn't work. Particularly in the movie that they included everything everyone remembers from the Fred Wolf show and then some. At the end of the day I doubt there's that many people working in Hollywood that are fans and the kind of producers and writers that are going to end up up with TMNT are not going to invest in doing anything more than skimming through all these different versions for stuff that jumps out at them that looks "kewel" and trying and assuming it works together...like giant, edgy Zulli-esque turtles dressed in the kind of ridiculous garb the Next Mutation had them in.

Wouldn't it be better to hand them the originals and say "that's your basis". No one is advocating a panel by panel adaption but that's the simplest and best way. There's a reason why people turned out for the 2014 movie but didn't for Out of the Shadows that goes deeper that simple buyers remorse for the first reboot movie. Fans of the Fred Wolf show went nuts for Bebop and Rocksteady, Krang etc but why would the general public who aren't necessarily fans of any version care? Especially when the previous one was nothing to write home about and the trailers made the sequel look more characters?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Galactus

The whole idea of doing a mix and match TMNT sounds good in theory but it takes someone who knows the franchise so well to make elements that don't naturally fit together work well.

It works in IDW because Waltz is a fan and has a lot of issues to flesh these concepts out. The same is true but to a lesser extent with the Nickelodeon animated series.

Platinum Dunes did try to some extent but it just didn't work. Particularly in the movie that they included everything everyone remembers from the Fred Wolf show and then some. At the end of the day I doubt there's that many people working in Hollywood that are fans and the kind of producers and writers that are going to end up up with TMNT are not going to invest in doing anything more than skimming through all these different versions for stuff that jumps out at them that looks "kewel" and trying and assuming it works together...like giant, edgy Zulli-esque turtles dressed in the kind of ridiculous garb the Next Mutation had them in.

Wouldn't it be better to hand them the originals and say "that's your basis". No one is advocating a panel by panel adaption but that's the simplest and best way. There's a reason why people turned out for the 2014 movie but didn't for Out of the Shadows that goes deeper that simple buyers remorse for the first reboot movie. Fans of the Fred Wolf show went nuts for Bebop and Rocksteady, Krang etc but why would the general public who aren't necessarily fans of any version care? Especially when the previous one was nothing to write home about and the trailers made the sequel look more characters?

I'm not arguing for or against a 'mirage-only' reboot, I don't really care at this point. I just don't think the powers that be will do a mirage-only reboot. They'll pull what they want from any given version, and not listen to the fanbase. We fans see the difference between different versions, they don't care- to the people making the movies, anything turtles is turtles. Trying to draw a line in the sand and saying 'oh you can't use this because it didn't come from mirage' doesn't mean anything to the people making the movies.

I'm not against a Mirage reboot, I just don't think Paramount will do a mirage reboot.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Powder

For sure, & when you consider that the most popular fan art on social media is similarly dark & "serious", it's clear there is a market for it. People want most things they grew up with to grow up with them.

It boggles my mind how this apparently isn't the case for some people.

But then, some people didn't grow up, either...