Your religious views and positions on matters such as God and the meaning of life?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

First, watch the video, then we can discuss. The folks on the panel are some of the greatest minds working in neuroscience today.

Ok, I have watched the entire video, and I have my points to say.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

If you'd like to debate their idea's about free will, I'm all for it. Asking questions like:
"I am imagining a bluebird flying across a beautiful field of sunflowers, can scientists ever find this image anywhere in my brain?"

Is sort of nonsense. The image? Like, the .jpg, or the oil painting? Do you mean the video tape or the laser disk? < I can say silly things too.

Why is it nonsense? Just because it cannot be physically measured? That's exactly what I have been trying to tell you, that there are certain things that cannot be measured using the scientific method, such as our consciousness.

Now, you may want to claim that we can indeed measure these things by measuring the electrical signals that pule throughout our brain, but the electrical signals themselves are not the IMMATERIAL thoughts, ideas, values and beliefs that I experience, they are electrical signals which lack meaning outside of what our immaterial thoughts and imagination give them.

The proper way to investigate MENTAL thoughts, ideas, values and beliefs would be through MENTAL introspection, an entirely different field of study from science, which concerns itself with perceived objective reality through the repeated tests and observation of PHYSICAL stimuli in order to figure out how the PHYSICAL world works.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

There isn't any image in your brain, or mine, any more than words are tangible. There may be an electrical sequence that could we could generate
that would produce that image, but so what? And how does your question begin to solve for the question of free will? Does my playstation have free will? My TV?

Again, they've done experiments, that are talked about at length in the video.

Like I said, not my "rule" or argument. It took me by surprise, to be honest.
In fact, there's arguments to be made that you, are not even "in" your brain, let alone "images".
Science is fun.

1. That is exactly the point. The images in our mind are completely intangible, immaterial and outside the laws of physics which solely concern themselves with the material. Anyone who says that the electrical signals are responsible for these immaterial images has no choice but to commit the fallacy of implying that correlation equals causation, and is also trying to explain the immaterial using science, which is solely concerned with the material.

"And how does your question begin to solve for the question of free will? Does my playstation have free will? My TV?"

It solves the question by talking about my immaterial self which I and you can experience. This immaterial soul is not bound by the laws of physics due to its non physical nature, and is thus exempt from determinism. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe in physical determinism, and that any ideas of physical reality being different rest solely in our non-physical mind.

I find the parallel between mind/body and electrical currents and the picture you see on television to be fallacious. Firstly, because the television image is not IMMATERIAL, looking closely at the image on the screen will allow you to see the individual PHYSICAL pixels which are caused by the PHYSICAL currents running across the PHYSICAL currents. So of course, your television and PlayStation don't have free will, as everything about them is physical from (aside from the meaning we assign to them using our non-physical mind), thus they are bound by the laws of cause and effect.

I found it dishonest for one of the speakers to rule out the existence of anything thats not physical due to the lack of evidence, because firstly, they were searching for the immaterial in the wrong places by examining the physical brain, which of course won't show you anything immaterial as it is a physical organ. You look for the immaterial by using your immaterial mind. No matter how much they try, scientists cannot see the immaterial image of the bluebird flying in my head by looking at the electrical currents that run through my physical brain. Physical currents are not the imagined bluebird itself. Also, if one of the speakers bothered to investigate the problem of premium free will which they cited as one of the 3 options on the gas station, they would've been forced to conclude that science cannot answer the immaterial. I found it a cop out to just label the option as "Archaic" and not even attempt to honestly investigate it just because it dwells into a completely different realm that science cannot answer.

"There's arguments to be made that you, are not even "in" your brain, let alone "images".

I agree, I do not believe I am my brain, and/or my body or even inside of them. I believe I am an immaterial soul, independent of my physical body which feels physical sensations via a physical body, It is my mind which interprets the physical body as my own and the world around me, giving meaning to everything. I do not believe the immaterial images I imagine such as bluebirds and gardens, are even in my brain technically, because of their non-physical nature. Being non-physical would make the mind beyond time and space. I guess this makes me a dualist.