Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 17: The Insecta Trifecta

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Ursalink

Have you noticed that, when the Turtles and April came to the rescue of Karai from the bugs, April has the same "white ninja eyes" of the turtles? I think April is really turning into the fifth Turtle after all.

Her eyes were white because she was using the tracking mutants power.

That power first come up in the episode Eyes of the Chimera but then she couldn't control it.

[neatoman]

I have several problems with this episode:

1. Why is Baxter loyal to the man who turned him into a fly? I thought he was going to betray Shredder with those mutagen treatments all things considered but I guess not.
2. Speaking of loyalty, Scumbug was clearly irritated with being kidnapped as a human so why isn't he ticked out being a mutant and why did his personality change so drastically after his mutation?
3. Why does Raph hallucinate throughout this episode? Can fear itself really do that?
4. Dregg wasn't actuallly an insect, he wasn't even a living being. Raph should know this.

There is also the thing about Scumbug being another mutant with a spider theme, they could have gone with Spider Bytez for this episode, you know the character who was introduced early on in season 1 but has only been given an actual role in 1 other episode since. I know why they did it:

Spoiler:

But I don't think it's a very good excuse for basically making the same character twice.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I have several problems with this episode:

1. Why is Baxter loyal to the man who turned him into a fly? I thought he was going to betray Shredder with those mutagen treatments all things considered but I guess not.
2. Speaking of loyalty, Scumbug was clearly irritated with being kidnapped as a human so why isn't he ticked out being a mutant and why did his personality change so drastically after his mutation?
3. Why does Raph hallucinate throughout this episode? Can fear itself really do that?
4. Dregg wasn't actuallly an insect, he wasn't even a living being. Raph should know this.

1. Because Baxter was being a kiss ass and as Shredder was weak he was taking it as an advantage because he's the only mutant that can help him.

2. Because mutagen can change the mind, that's why scumbug wasn't angry about mutating. Baxter even said to Shredder that his mutation had to be slow so it didn't corrupted his mind.

3. It looked like he was going through PTSD as well, that's why he was hallucinating.

4. It looks like he's part insect part robot and he controls insects, that's why he was in Raph's mind.

I don't consider Spider Bytez evil though, he was asking for the turtles help in Metalhead rewired. He's more of a I don't care about others, only myself type of person/mutate.

[xenopokemon]

Man... I really would have preferred if this episode included the other bug characters instead of making two new ones. Scumbug was really disturbing, just as or even more disturbing than the "Mega Shredder" in Season 3 (AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING). While his design was over the top, his character was.. not present. I think a piece of cardboard has more personality. And Anthrax is literally a drone so, can't do anything there. Shame.

In my opinion, there were enough insect mutants on the show to begin with. Spider Bytez, Cockroach Terminator (Or Spyroach), Parasitica Wasp (more feral but still counts), Baxter Stockfly, Lord Dregg and his army, and now these two bugthugs. Baxter could have been looking for some mutants to ally with and since Spider Bytez hasn't been seen for over a season, this would have been a nice way to include him. CT on the other hand, was in a hallucination and that doesn't cut it for me. PWs got one episode and a cameo in Metalhead Rewired (one of my personal favorite episodes). I would have loved it if they included all of those bug mutants. THAT would have been a formidable army.

No Shinigami :/ I want my senpai dang it.

I was surprised to see Lord Dregg (albeit in a hallucination) so I hope we will see him physically on Earth, assuming that his half insect/half robot (very unexplained) self survives in the vacuum of space. And if we see Dregg, I expect to see Armaggon, Mona Lisa, and Sal Commander (and freaking Newtralizer I swear they forgot about him). Fight scenes were good, as they all have been as the show progresses through the seasons.

My main issue with this episode was every scene with Casey in it (nah I'm kidding, but that was pretty hard to watch. At least he didn't say metal). The main issue was that it was a Raphcentric episode showing his worst quality, his fear. Sure, he overcame it, thanks to Splinter, but come on. How many times do we have to see him flip out over it? I want to see BA raph, not wimpy Raph. Also, when Baxter is defeated, he just straight up ditches the bugthugs. So much for loyalty, which was THE WHOLE REASON HE DID THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know he was loyal to Shredder, but come on. You called them your brothers three minutes ago.

I give this episode a low 7, at least we finally got a glimpse at Super Shredder. And the Raph/Splinter moment was heartwarming.

[THGhost]

Currently waiting for somewhere to watch this online in HD. Nick.com now requires you to log into your TV service provider... your USA TV service provider.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by xenopokemon

My main issue with this episode was every scene with Casey in it (nah I'm kidding, but that was pretty hard to watch. At least he didn't say metal). The main issue was that it was a Raphcentric episode showing his worst quality, his fear. Sure, he overcame it, thanks to Splinter, but come on. How many times do we have to see him flip out over it? I want to see BA raph, not wimpy Raph. Also, when Baxter is defeated, he just straight up ditches the bugthugs. So much for loyalty, which was THE WHOLE REASON HE DID THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know he was loyal to Shredder, but come on. You called them your brothers three minutes ago.

This was the first time that Raph asked for help over his fear because it was getting worse, all the other times he didn't get any help for it.

I'm pretty annoyed that you said Raph is being wimpy in this episode. So your saying that tough guys shouldn't be allowed to have fears and PTSD.

Look in the real world, Soldiers are supposed to be tough but they still have fears and end up having PTSD and a lot of them don't ask for help until it gets worse. Would you go up to soldier and say to them that your being wimp just because they have a fear and PTSD.

Can I just point out that Baxter wanted to make new insect mutants so he could control them, there would be no way he would able to control Cockraoch Terminator and Spider Bytez.

[xenopokemon]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

This was the first time that Raph asked for help over his fear because it was getting worse, all the other times he didn't get any help for it.

I'm pretty annoyed that you said Raph is being wimpy in this episode. So your saying that tough guys shouldn't be allowed to have fears and PTSD.

Look in the real world, Soldiers are supposed to be tough but they still have fears and end up having PTSD and a lot of them don't ask for help until it gets worse. Would you go up to soldier and say to them that your being wimp just because they have a fear and PTSD.

Can I just point out that Baxter wanted to make new insect mutants so he could control them, there would be no way he would able to control Cockraoch Terminator and Spider Bytez.

Didn't say that he's not allowed to have fears. I'm just saying they are beating a dead horse here with the "aah Raph's scared of bugs" thing.

And Baxter could so control CT. SB I'm not sure because he doesn't seem to have any loyalty (But we can't really say that, since we've only seen him a few times).

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by xenopokemon

Didn't say that he's not allowed to have fears. I'm just saying they are beating a dead horse here with the "aah Raph's scared of bugs" thing.

And Baxter could so control CT. SB I'm not sure because he doesn't seem to have any loyalty (But we can't really say that, since we've only seen him a few times).

Fears stay with people for a long time, unless they get help for it. This is what happened in this episode, Raph fear gotten a lot worse and he needed help for it. All the other times Raph fear came up, he didn't have help for it so his fear was obviously going to continue even if he didn't have help. But he did have help this time and hopefully (crossing fingers) he will have more control over his fear.

If his fear does continue into the rest of this season and season 5, then there's obviously a problem in the writing.

Unless Baxter had a device to control CT and Spider Bytez he wouldn't able to control them.

Cockroach Terminator obviously has a different mind and works alone.

Spider Bytez isn't evil, he was just angry and blamed the turtles for his mutataion. In Metalhead Rewired he asked the turtles for help because the Kraang were after him. Spider Bytez has only been in 2 episodes and hasn't done anything evil, he's not like Snake Weed who has done evil things. Spider Bytez prefers to be alone, he doesn't care about anyone else but himself.

[xenopokemon]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Fears stay with people for a long time, unless they get help for it. This is what happened in this episode, Raph fear gotten a lot worse and he needed help for it. All the other times Raph fear came up, he didn't have help for it so his fear was obviously going to continue even if he didn't have help. But he did have help this time and hopefully (crossing fingers) he will have more control over his fear.

If his fear does continue into the rest of this season and season 5, then there's obviously a problem in the writing.

Unless Baxter had a device to control CT and Spider Bytez he wouldn't able to control them.

Cockroach Terminator obviously has a different mind and works alone.

Spider Bytez isn't evil, he was just angry and blamed the turtles for his mutataion. In Metalhead Rewired he asked the turtles for help because the Kraang were after him. Spider Bytez has only been in 2 episodes and hasn't done anything evil, he's not like Snake Weed who has done evil things. Spider Bytez prefers to be alone, he doesn't care about anyone else but himself.

Yes, hopefully we won't have to see this side of Raph EVER again. Baxter Stockman could probably manipulate SB somehow. With money, the promise of returning him to his former self, or threatening him with Shredder's mutant army (not saying it's at his disposal, but he is powerful by association). CT, on the other hand, doesn't have motive, as far as we know. All we know is Raph doesn't like him, and CT feels resentment towards him because of that. Just because he hasn't worked with anyone so far doesn't mean that he wouldn't. It's just lazy writing (I'm half joking/half being serious with that).

[shredder orokusaki]

MUHAHHAHHA My mutation continues!! Iam becoming Super Shredder! AND WILL DESTROY THE TURTLES!!!

[ssjup81]

I finally was able to see this episode. I really really liked it, just like the past two, but of course I do have a nitpick or two, but I'll get to that later.

Anyway, it seems that Shredder is kind of...out of it? He is acting uncharacteristically nice, but I blame that on what Baxter was saying earlier regarding the mutagen. That probably has a lot t o do with it. It was nice to see Baxter get some airtime, though. I know his voice actor is expensive to get, which is probably why we see him the least out of all of Shredder's henchmutants. I'm really really curious, though how Super Shredder is going to turn out...but please, no shipping docks to crush him, show. lol

Oh, surprisingly, I felt a little sorry for Baxter. The fact that he called the mutants he made "friends" is sad and speaking of those two....totally gross. lol I just really really hate bugs and I do have a bug phobia, especially with Antrax. Oh and I so so so so hate spiders. That's one of my biggest fears when it comes to creepy crawly things.

Now, one of the best parts of this episode, was Raph. I like how they don't have the characters miraculously "get over" things. Raph, to me, was definitely showing signs of PTSD. It's like Leo back in season 3 with his leg. He was showing signs of PTSD there. Just being on a planet full of bugs won't get you over your phobia. He was just forced into that situation. He didn't decide, "Hey, I'm sick of my bug phobia...I'm going to go to a planet and get over it." It was pretty realistic, especially if you already have a deep-seeded fear. At least they're consistent with this. I can't help but wonder if they're going to lessen his fear or slowly have him get over it, or if he's going to freak out some when coming across giant bugs, as I just don't fault him for that.

I also really liked how Raph and Splinter were bonding and had a moment to gether, especially after the fake mantra, "Kore wa nani mo imishinai". Pretty slick, Splinter. lol

Oh the slight banter with Leo and Karai, as always, was cute to me. lol Speaking of Karai, I'm glad Baxter did go after her and her reaction to Baxter. She should have a lot of hatred towards him for her mutation and the brain worm thing.

Oh that guy that was being mutated in the beginning, was reminding me slightly of Bronson Pinchot as the character he was playing in the Langoliers. I know, pretty random of me to think of that.

Hm, let's see...Baxter's new hideout...it made me think of the first level of Turtles in Time. Not sure if that was deliberate or not, though.

Now, my main dislike...unless they're being deliberate. Baxter, just like Steranko and Zeck, were forcibly mutated. They should have a lot of animosity towards Shredder. Whatever happened to Baxter trying to find a cure to make him human again? I know back when he was first mutated, I was wondering if he was only pretending to be loyal and then turn on Shredder and the others...unless he is becoming more fly-like, just like the OT Baxter. Nah, maybe he just has Stockholm Syndrome by this point. ><

So yeah, good episode, and this is what I like about these characters. They have fears and vulnerabilities. I'm glad we get to see that with the characters at times.

Sucks Shini wasn't in this episode, but...I guess she just wouldn't have fit in. I would like to see Casey meet Shini since it's a new ally for them.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Stockman Syndrome:

The inability to remain 100% human for the duration of an entire TMNT series.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Currently waiting for somewhere to watch this online in HD. Nick.com now requires you to log into your TV service provider... your USA TV service provider.

I was trying to send you a PM, but it seems you don't accept them.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Stockman Syndrome:

The inability to remain 100% human for the duration of an entire TMNT series.

I'm slipping. I should've made that joke. lol

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I was trying to send you a PM, but it seems you don't accept them.

I'm slipping. I should've made that joke. lol

I make the jokes so nobody else has to. You're welcome.

[Jephael]

Just watched the episode this morning on nick.com and thought it was great. Honestly though, Casey didn't seem to have much reason to be present in this one. They might as well have just stuck with Shinigami.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by xenopokemon

In my opinion, there were enough insect mutants on the show to begin with. Spider Bytez, Cockroach Terminator (Or Spyroach), Parasitica Wasp (more feral but still counts)

Cockroach Terminator was destroyed in his debut episode. Yes, we have a moment at the end where we see that was possibly able to respawn itself. But that has never been utilized since.

Parasitica Wasp, again killed during its debut episode. Yes, a wasp appears in Metalhead Rewired, but then again they were showing a Kraang Prison for mutants. The studio was possibly recycling all the mutant models it had available in that one scene. Because 3D models are expensive to make and animate. And each 3D model used has to be factored into the episode budget. This is why we rarely see more than five random humans in the city at one time.

As for Spider Bites, the person who voices him is an A-List celebrity comedian. Nick Studios doesn't have the budget to bring in Luis Black on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

This was the first time that Raph asked for help over his fear because it was getting worse, all the other times he didn't get any help for it.

I'm pretty annoyed that you said Raph is being wimpy in this episode. So your saying that tough guys shouldn't be allowed to have fears and PTSD.

Look in the real world, Soldiers are supposed to be tough but they still have fears and end up having PTSD and a lot of them don't ask for help until it gets worse. Would you go up to soldier and say to them that your being wimp just because they have a fear and PTSD.

I agree with this. I actually suffer from anxiety disorder and know quite well how debilitating it can be to go through a panic attack. I have been able to gain control of my anxiousness rather than letting it control me. But I still have serious panic attacks every so often.

Raph believed he had gotten over his bug-phobia because of the events on Sectoid 1. And this episode clarified that he didn't get over his fear...but rather was able to surpass it.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Spider Bytez isn't evil, he was just angry and blamed the turtles for his mutataion. In Metalhead Rewired he asked the turtles for help because the Kraang were after him. Spider Bytez has only been in 2 episodes and hasn't done anything evil, he's not like Snake Weed who has done evil things. Spider Bytez prefers to be alone, he doesn't care about anyone else but himself.

Again I agree. Spider Bites may be on the villain's roster, but he isn't really on the side of the villains. He's just out for himself and really doesn't have any interest in either side of the conflicts between the Foot Clan, The Kraang, and the Turtles unless it directly applies to personal gain.

Originally Posted by xenopokemon

So much for loyalty, which was THE WHOLE REASON HE DID THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know he was loyal to Shredder, but come on. You called them your brothers three minutes ago.

Stockman is a coward to be sure, but he isn't really evil. He's more or less equivalent of the scrawny kid who hangs out with the schoolyard bully purely so he wouldn't be picked on himself.

In this episode Shredder had told Stockman through what I call "Honeyed insults" (essentially insults phrased as compliments) that all his hench-mutants have become useless and the only one who has loyally served him is a simpering bug. Stockman who more or less has been the "Megward the Wizard" of the Foot Clan feels he finally has a chance to really prove his worth to the Shredder by gaining back all the Shredder has lost and even creating a fierce and loyal bug army.

But in the end Stockmen really only wanted friends, not followers. Such as when Scumbug pointed out that that they didn't need to follow someone else's ideals when they could create their own empire. Stockman replies that it's all about friends, loyalty. And at the end, Stockman did feel a sense of regret in abandoning his companions as he escapes.

As for Scumbug and Antrax, we are likely to see them again. The Turtles aren't the sort of people who kill needlessly or purely out of malice. It's more likely that the two bug-thugs have been locked up in Karai's dungeon as they are too dangerous to roam free unchecked. But they could be reformed as added muscle for Karai's cause. Since Scumbug is a normal human who had been abducted and mutated against his will, it is possible that he would be offered the chance to have his humanity restored to him.

[drgon78]

Not as good as the last two but still fun, I did like the Raph and Splinter moments and that Baxter actually has talking scenes.

[PApagreg]

Off topic but has their been a character episode where said character didn't learn a lesson and it was just a fun side adventure because I think this series needs that

[CyberCubed]

Does anyone think the police in this episode were a parody of Trump supporters? Brandon Auman has posted anti-Trump stuff in his instragram before.

The police said, "They're hippies! Let's take them down for the good 'ol U.S. of A!"

Haha, the trigger happy bastard police. They were probably Trump supporters too and Brandon Auman put some of his political commentary into the show. Hahha.

[Powder]