Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 17: The Insecta Trifecta

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

The City at War (Baxter nicking money), Shredder's recovery/mutation and everyone looking for Shredder are the main story for this arc right and we saw all those things in this episode.

Just because Shinigami wasn't in the episode doesn't make it a filler. Shinigami was in the Broken Foot and some people think that episode was a filler but it wasn't because of Baxter stealing money to replace the money that was destroyed and Karai continuing to take back the city from Shredder and now is going after him.

It maybe a filler to you but to me it isn't and I bet that some of the things from this episode will be in other episodes soon and we probably see Scumbug and Antrax again.

The only episode that is a filler this season is The Weird World of Wyrm.

I know filler when I see it, and the vast majority of this episode was. And there's been more filler episodes than that. Call it a side-story, if you will.

Twas good though. It was fun to see Baxter try to take down the Turtles, and I like Scumbag and Antrax's character designs.

Oh, and I didn't say it was filler because Shinigami wasn't in it. That's besides the point.

Originally Posted by Penst0ck

(Ignore me if this has already been said or theorized on here.)

Shinigami might probably have been out looking for Shredder's new hide out like the other new Foot ninja's. Who knows, she maybe the one who finds it and gets the ball rolling on Karai's second attempt to end the Shredder (yeah good luck with that tho)

Maybe we'll get an episode where we get to see that?

[Vicky82]

Well I don't understand why some people think this is a filler even though it is connected to the last 2 episodes.

I always thought filler episodes have a different story and are not part of the main arc, like Mazes and Mutants and The Weird World of Wyrm.

I know some people consider Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind a filler but it isn't because they were getting the Triceraton ship plans. If it didn't have that in the episode then it would have been a filler.

[THGhost]

It is connected, but not for the whole thing. The vast majority of it is unconnected. At least that how I feel about it.

People's definition of filler differs I guess, and that's fine. I actually enjoy filler; I'm a DBZ fan for goodness sake. As long as it isn't several filler episodes in a row, that can get pretty boring.

Hopefully I won't have to wait so long to watch the next episode. Watching this show in the UK sucks.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Penst0ck

(Ignore me if this has already been said or theorized on here.)

Shinigami might probably have been out looking for Shredder's new hide out like the other new Foot ninja's. Who knows, she maybe the one who finds it and gets the ball rolling on Karai's second attempt to end the Shredder (yeah good luck with that tho)

Or what if she is secretly working for the Shredder. She does walk the line between good and evil...it would make sense for her to play both sides of the war. And she does strike me as one of those catty girl tropes...the one that is only friends with you for their own personal gain and interests and when you are no longer needed they stab you in the back or kick you out of your circle of friends.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Well I don't understand why some people think this is a filler even though it is connected to the last 2 episodes.

I always thought filler episodes have a different story and are not part of the main arc, like Mazes and Mutants and The Weird World of Wyrm.

I know some people consider Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind a filler but it isn't because they were getting the Triceraton ship plans. If it didn't have that in the episode then it would have been a filler.

Originally Posted by THGhost

It is connected, but not for the whole thing. The vast majority of it is unconnected. At least that how I feel about it.

People's definition of filler differs I guess, and that's fine. I actually enjoy filler; I'm a DBZ fan for goodness sake. As long as it isn't several filler episodes in a row, that can get pretty boring.

Hopefully I won't have to wait so long to watch the next episode. Watching this show in the UK sucks.

Filler is one of the go-to terms that is used to mean "I don't like this episode or how it was presented, but I don't really have a way of articulating why I don't like it."

With Anime, Filler is used when the Anime catches up to the manga and they are using it to fill time until there is enough source material to get back to the plot or act as a buffer to reset the story in another direction. Which ultimately can be skipped over and you won't miss anything.

Western Cartoons don't really have filler episodes in that sense very often. The only filler episode in this season was the Wyrm episode because they retcon it at the end and say it never happened. In other words, you can skip it and you would have missed nothing of importance.

Journey is a buffer episode because they reference getting the schematics for the Triceraton Mothership from Bellybomb in the previous episode and Dregg is shown as being interested in the blackhole generator.


This episode isn't a filler episode as it does connect to events in the previous episodes. But it is a buffer episode as it pads out and sets things up for the crap that is going to go down in the next episodes.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Well I don't understand why some people think this is a filler even though it is connected to the last 2 episodes.

I always thought filler episodes have a different story and are not part of the main arc, like Mazes and Mutants and The Weird World of Wyrm.

I know some people consider Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind a filler but it isn't because they were getting the Triceraton ship plans. If it didn't have that in the episode then it would have been a filler.

An episode can be entwined to a story arc and still be filler. That's like saying no episode in Pokemon is because they're always progressing to the next place, when in truth more than half of Pokemon episodes are filler.

In this episode, Baxter has a plan and it all fails, and at the end it's all back where it started as if nothing ever happened.

Nothing was gained, nothing was lost, nothing was progressed, none of the characters had anything more or less than what they had before the episode. Nothing was reffered to from the previous episode, Donnie's not the slightest bit hurt, there's no animosity with April at Karai, they fight together like nothing ever happened, which clearly means there's no progression that's needs seen in this episode.

When you rewatch Season 4, you can go from Broken Foot to this Sunday's episode and it will not feel like there's an episode missing.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Filler is one of the go-to terms that is used to mean "I don't like this episode or how it was presented, but I don't really have a way of articulating why I don't like it."

Erm, okay. That's not true at all because I said I liked the episode. It's still mostly filler though, which is fine.

Maybe there are some people out there who call something filler simply because they don't like it, but that isn't true in this particular case.

Originally Posted by JTH

An episode can be entwined to a story arc and still be filler. That's like saying no episode in Pokemon is because they're always progressing to the next place, when in truth more than half of Pokemon episodes are filler.

In this episode, Baxter has a plan and it all fails, and at the end it's all back where it started as if nothing ever happened.

Nothing was gained, nothing was lost, nothing was progressed, none of the characters had anything more or less than what they had before the episode. Nothing was reffered to from the previous episode, Donnie's not the slightest bit hurt, there's no animosity with April at Karai, they fight together like nothing ever happened, which clearly means there's no progression that's needs seen in this episode.

When you rewatch Season 4, you can go from Broken Foot to this Sunday's episode and it will not feel like there's an episode missing.

This in a nutshell.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by THGhost

It is connected, but not for the whole thing. The vast majority of it is unconnected. At least that how I feel about it.

People's definition of filler differs I guess, and that's fine. I actually enjoy filler; I'm a DBZ fan for goodness sake. As long as it isn't several filler episodes in a row, that can get pretty boring.

Hopefully I won't have to wait so long to watch the next episode. Watching this show in the UK sucks.

To me, filler episodes are episodes that if you cut them out, you won't get confused later. If you miss an ep and you do end up confused later if referenced again and affects the main plot in some way or some other arc in the story, I don't consider it filler and I guess I blame anime for having that outlook.

This episode, we were introduced to Antrax and Scumbag. The Turtles doubtfully killed them. It's not in their nature. They'll more than likely show up again later since we're supposed to get a Mutants vs Human arc apparently. If (when) these two show up again, and I hadn't seen this ep, I would be wondering where they came from or why they were randomly just showing up, like Tokka and Rahzaa in the OT. No backstory or anything other than its being a nod to movie 2 and Turtles in Time.

To me, the only real filler this season is the Wyrm episode because of how the characters themselves have no memory of it or Wyrm and with the way the episode was set up, it's probably going to remain that way.

This is why I don't write episodes off as filler for this series so quickly...especially if it introduces a new character who may play a role later on in the main plot in another arc or whatever.

[THGhost]

I'm just happy people actually still read my posts and that I've sparked a conversation. I don't post here as often as I used to, but I do try to not abandon this place.

Or it might just be because my initial post was apparently so controversial.

[Vicky82]

Antrax and Scumbug weren't killed off, you saw them alive under rubble. Antrax drones were killed off though.

I don't think the mutants vs humans story is an arc. Mutant Gangland episode is probably the humans vs mutants story.

[THGhost]

I do hope they come back and aren't abandoned like some of the other villains. It'd be waste of some pretty cool character designs.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Antrax and Scumbug weren't killed off, you saw them alive under rubble. Antrax drones were killed off though.

I don't think the mutants vs humans story is an arc. Mutant Gangland episode is probably the humans vs mutants story.

Ok, maybe not arc, but maybe some storyline about it.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Antrax and Scumbug weren't killed off, you saw them alive under rubble. Antrax drones were killed off though.

I don't think the mutants vs humans story is an arc. Mutant Gangland episode is probably the humans vs mutants story.

I agree, the Turtles have killed characters. But they don't willfully go out of their way to do so. It's more likely that Scumbug and Antrax have been apprehended and are being reformed or at least put somewhere they be held until they can be retromutated.

As for the Human's vs. Mutants arc If you think about it the human's vs. Mutants arc has been happening in small bursts throughout the series. The Turtles have been called freaks more than once by human characters. Bradford and Xever's and even Stockman's efforts to destroy the turtles before their inevitable mutations.

And there have been humans who have seen the Turtles out in public, such as the "Guy with Cat" and that one blond woman. And of course the invasions and other events where the Turtles couldn't exactly avoid being seen.

The upcoming event is just another small part of the entire arc. This time, it's the mob going after mutants. With a human's vs mutants arc, however, you think a situation where the Turtles existence is exposed to the entire city because events can no longer escape human notice.

Take Gargoyles, for example, the last arc of the series made it known the humans of the city had become aware of the Gargoyles existence in Manhatten. And then when the police station was blown up, the Gargoyles were incriminated for it because they were caught leaving the scene of the event.

And then after that in the Goliath Chronicles, there is one group that lashes out in anger and fear. because there is one man playing on such emotions by telling them these creatures will come for their children in the night. And as they say, Humans fear what they don't understand.

But on the flip side, there are also groups who are saying "We don't know if these Gargoyles are really a threat."

This same rhetoric has also been done with shows like Justice League and X-men where they have people who are heroes. But there are groups who are out to say these people are monsters simply because they are different or have abilities that set them apart from everyone else.

Such as one moment in X-men evolution I believe, where the X-Men have been exposed to the General Public. Robert Kelly and Xavior are talking to a group of parents or reps of the general public about how much a threat the X-men are. In the climax of the episode, there is a huge fight between the X-men and brotherhood of mutants. Robert Kelly sees it and says "See, this is what I mean about these people being something that could be harmful to this city." And Xavior just tells Kelly to take another look because he would find that the X-men are actually using quite a bit of restraint in their powers. And that helps change the general view.

So with the Turtles it would only need a moment for Joan Grody or somebody to get footage of the Turtles in battle or fleeing the scene of battle. Thus having them being incriminated by the general public.

[Penst0ck]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Or what if she is secretly working for the Shredder. She does walk the line between good and evil...it would make sense for her to play both sides of the war. And she does strike me as one of those catty girl tropes...the one that is only friends with you for their own personal gain and interests and when you are no longer needed they stab you in the back or kick you out of your circle of friends.

Hmm. If ends up so then she would be a REALLY good actress. Even though she comes off as dark and wicked /pun kinda intended/ to others, she is nothing but respectful towards Karai. Only her interest in spending Shredder's money gave me a slight suspicion that she doesn't have the noblest disposition. But even then she showed no qualms with burning it under her sempai's command.

[magicallypuzzled]

if that did happen i would absolutely hate it. not only is it the most obvious portrayal of walking the line between good and bad with no subtlety. but most of the appeal to the character, atleast in my opinion, is being loyal to karai. karai doesn't currently have an other loyal named characters in her faction

[THGhost]

Yeah, I wouldn't like it if that happened.

Oh God, it's gonna happen isn't it?

[Mini-Turtle]

Definitely a good episode. Great to see Casey back in action. Also, great to see the return of Baxter Stockfly, as well as his new mutants. Can't say no to Turflytle, either. Of course, the BIG thing was the first true look at SUPER SHREDDER.

[WebLurker]

I liked the show overall (the return to the season 1-style night mission is fun).

Kind of wish Karai's friend was in it (but there were enough characters as it was). (I sort-of doubt she's going to be revealed as a traitor, but you never know.)

I wonder of Super Shredder is going to be that much different from his original configuration: He's looking like his normal self in the title sequence and still using his gauntlets instead of his new mutant Wolverine claws. So, maybe he's just going to be a tougher version of himself who doesn't use his mutant weapons very much?

[Splinter the boss]

Just watched it. This episode was simply gross. Raph was stupid with his fear of bugs, He should have manned up from the beginning, the entire thing is in his mind.
Since when did Stockman start being so loyal to Shredder?, I guess they're using him as a means to develop Super Shredder, but still... he was just out of character to me. I find it funny that even his subordinates don't know his name well.
Is it me or did Stockman get uglier? Mikey was funny in this episode, the way he mocked Stockman was just golden.



Sorry if this post seems robotic, I literally had to take notes on what I was gonna mention, plus I'm in a hurry.

[JH24]

I skipped this episode because I thought it would just be a rehash of Raph's fear for bugs. But in the end, I have to say I enjoyed it. It was a fun, well-written episode with only the final fight feeling disappointing/forced.

I really liked having Casey back, especially seeing him hanging out with Donatello and the others at the start. I love those little moments. Karai and April teaming up was a nice touch as well. Animation and art seemed very alive/expressive in this episode.

[Garfield]

I enjoyd it okay. Raph is my fav in this series so it was cool to get an episode surrounding him and also Baxter getting more focus. "Scumbug" looked nasty as hell...didn't need to see that.