Mirage Vol4 Issue #11 Discussion [spoilerz] - Page 2

splint · 08-18-2003, 12:18 AM

is this out now? or next week?

*Skeletoncrew* · 08-18-2003, 12:29 AM

The release date is the 20th.

splint · 08-18-2003, 02:34 PM

thanks.

*Raven* · 08-18-2003, 02:57 PM

holy crap lawsons art actulley looks good

this actulley looks like a good issue!

*Jephael* · 08-19-2003, 08:58 PM

I think I might go back to the mall tommorow evening to get the issue. I can't wait to read it!

Aztec General · 08-20-2003, 04:36 PM

Well I've read it and it was quite good. Most of the issue was devoted to Splinter's funeral. Special guest appearances by Renet, Radical, and a demutated Leatherhead.

I also liked the ending of the issue with the introduction of the strange character that beat the crap out of the Foot Ninja.

Who is he? What happened to Leatherhead? As usual Volume 4 leaves more questions than answers. At this rate Laird will have to go up to issue 100 just to close out all of the storylines

.

Oh, and if anyone has ANY doubts that Laird reads this board, read the first few paragraphs of his statement at the end of the issue.

~~Leo656~~ · 08-20-2003, 04:51 PM

Haven't read the issue yet, just the first part of Laird's statement. I think it would have been even better if he'd used one of my quotes regarding Lawson's art, seeing as how I'm probably more vocal about it than most. That woulda been funny.

*Taloniss* · 08-20-2003, 05:07 PM

Good issue. The part where they cremate Splinter was very emotional.

*Roseangelo* · 08-20-2003, 05:12 PM

Having been disappointed with issue #10, this was the issue that would settle my feeling on Splinter's death. And in the end I find myself at peace with it all. I liked the issue, although the beginning and end were quite odd and it's unclear how these events tie into our green heroes.

I'm guessing Don snipped a piece of Splinter's fur.. but why?

And I loved the inclusion of Kevin and Peter at the funeral. How perfect.

~~Leo656~~ · 08-20-2003, 05:38 PM

I wondered why Don did that too. It'd be hella-gay if he did something like try to clone Splinter from his fur or something (if that was indeed what he took).

Overall, an ok issue. From reading the lettercol though I'm becoming more and more convinced that PL takes himself entirely too seriously and can't handle the slightest bit of criticism or fun being made at his expense from anyone about anything, but maybe that's just the impression I get from his replies to fanmail and his little stories he tells. It seems lately that the majority function of the lettercol is to "prove" to people who criticize that they're wrong. Almost every letter this issue was sure to mention how "Lawson's critics should shut up, people who don't like how things are done in the book shouldn't read it"..... it seems like Laird and Co. are insecure, the way they constantly feel the need to address the critics they claim to not lpay attention to. I don't think they understand that the reason people criticize (and there's a difference between "criticizing" and "bashing", and they ought to understand that too) is because they only want things to be better. Sigh.

Decent issue overall. Hopefully some of the plot threads that have been introduced so far will be cleared up before they introduce too much else into the story, it's getting a little bit cluttered story-wise. Lawson's art looked the same as always to me, no better or worse. Glad to hear some more news about Tales From the TMNT, I'm looking forward to that.

*Roseangelo* · 08-20-2003, 05:55 PM

Concerning the letters, I think you just have issues with the fact that there are people who hold different opinions than you. Peter didn't just pull out random letters to back up Jim's art. A lot of those letters are not from first time writers, but rather from long time fans whose names I've come to recognize (among them some personal friends). One does not "rig" a letters collumn by publishing letters from longtime readers.

*Jephael* · 08-20-2003, 08:49 PM

Man, I was so excited to get this issue tonight! I started skimming through it, and was in shock to see all the special guests that showed. From Renet to even Eastman and Laird themselves.
I'm quite curious as to who the furry creature was standing near Renet. I almost had this wild hunch it was a mutated version of the original Klunk.

~~Leo656~~ · 08-20-2003, 09:07 PM

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one, Rose, for whatever it's worth. Ever since the lettercol a few issues ago where Laird first started tossing the "moron" label around to stick on people who send in what he feels to be unarranted criticism, every single issue (starting with that one) has been full of letters with nothing but gushing praise, and maybe I'm overly cynical, but it really smacks of "See? I told you so!" I think, if anything, it's Peter Laird who has "issues" with anyone who doesn't agree with what HE thinks. I mean, sure, not everyone who sends in criticism is likely to be intelligent about it, but the way Laird replies to people is so condescending it aggravates me. It's like he generalizes ALL the people who disagree or criticize as "morons", "idiots", or whatever else he feels comfortable with, and it aint right.

So now, instead of printing ANY criticism, he prints letters of nothing but praise. Which I can definitely understand... why bother replying to someone who says the same things he's heard over and over again and is obviously sick of hearing? But at the same time, it seems like the most recent lettercols have been about "proving" to the naysayers that their opinion is "wrong" by showing how many people disagree. And there's nothing exactly wrong with that, it's certainly his prerogative, it just rubs me wrong because by going so far to prove how much he doesn't care about the criticism, he does a 180 and proves just how much it DOES bother him. Which is a shame, because someone who's lasted so long in the industry and made so much money and had so much success really ought to have a little thicker skin.

He should be glad he's not Mark Waid. HE's getting eaten alive by a large portion of the Superman fanbase over the "Birthright" mini-series he's doing...

Regardless... there's little else I can say on this, aside from the fact that your statement of me having "issues" with people who disagree with me is, with all due respect, patently ludicrous, since unlike some people around here who I HAVE had issues with, I don't call people who disagree with me names, or call their opinions stupid. I simply state my opinion, or reiterate it for the sake of those who may have missed it the first time, and if someone disagrees or questions my logic, I explain my opinion to them. Based on that, they can then either agree to disagree, or else be persuaded to my way of thinking. But that's up to them.

And if you think that it's outside the realm of possibility for a publisher or company to only print positive reviews of their product, well... I have two words for you: WWE Magazine.

Stefano · 08-20-2003, 09:23 PM

who is klunk. renet and the cat person are gonna attack it looks like. ANd i hope don doesnt clone

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 08-21-2003, 10:31 AM

What excactly did Laird say that would settle any doubts that he reads the forum?

Aztec General · 08-21-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TetsuDeinonychus

What excactly did Laird say that would settle any doubts that he reads the forum?

He pretty much quoted word for word one of the Anti-Lawson diatribes from this board.

**Nturtle** · 08-21-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nturtle

*writes a note about HT being crazy*

You know what would be crazy? If the turtles got some mutagen from the Utroms, mutated another rat and called him 'Splinter Jr'?

If donny clones Splinter, ten I get kudos for closest theory!!

*Jephael* · 08-21-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

What happened to Leatherhead?

I don't think anything did, because we didn't see enough of him to conclude if he's been de-mutated. Besides, Leatherhead's always looked like a regular alligator. Remember when he was mutated in the cartoon and he stood up on his hind legs? His physical apperance was never really altered since he was already the same size as a regular human being.

Aztec General · 08-21-2003, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jephael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

What happened to Leatherhead?

I don't think anything did, because we didn't see enough of him to conclude if he's been de-mutated. Besides, Leatherhead's always looked like a regular alligator. Remember when he was mutated in the cartoon and he stood up on his hind legs? His physical apperance was never really altered since he was already the same size as a regular human being.

Leo (or maybe Don) said "Somehow he knows". As if for some reason he was not capable of understanding. Which if he was still mutated he would be able to. Besides, he was just swimming in the water like a regular Alligator instead of paying his respects with the others. So I'm deducing that he was somehow demutated and the TMNT brought him up to Northampton to live in a nearby lake. I'm sure it will be further explained in Vol. 4 or Tales Vol. 2.

*Roseangelo* · 08-21-2003, 02:50 PM

"Somehow he knows" implies that somehow he knew that Splinter had died and he had come to pay his silent repects. He wasn't invited, but he showed up anyway. He was not demutated or anything silly like that.

08-18-2003, 12:18 AM	#21
splint Thug Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada, Manitoba, Winnipeg Posts: 97	is this out now? or next week? __________________ turtle for the great white north

08-18-2003, 12:29 AM	#22
Skeletoncrew Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Bearing in on your spicy brains Posts: 3,275	The release date is the 20th. __________________ Adult TMNT fan art and fiction contest Now accepting entries!

08-18-2003, 02:34 PM	#23
splint Thug Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada, Manitoba, Winnipeg Posts: 97	thanks. __________________ turtle for the great white north

08-18-2003, 02:57 PM	#24
Raven follower of Jesus Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,212	holy crap lawsons art actulley looks good this actulley looks like a good issue! __________________ TMNT Future Despair Deviant Offical Ultimate Ninja Turtles Site!

08-19-2003, 08:58 PM	#25
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	I think I might go back to the mall tommorow evening to get the issue. I can't wait to read it! __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

08-20-2003, 04:36 PM	#26
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	Well I've read it and it was quite good. Most of the issue was devoted to Splinter's funeral. Special guest appearances by Renet, Radical, and a demutated Leatherhead. I also liked the ending of the issue with the introduction of the strange character that beat the crap out of the Foot Ninja. Who is he? What happened to Leatherhead? As usual Volume 4 leaves more questions than answers. At this rate Laird will have to go up to issue 100 just to close out all of the storylines . Oh, and if anyone has ANY doubts that Laird reads this board, read the first few paragraphs of his statement at the end of the issue. __________________

08-20-2003, 04:51 PM	#27
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Haven't read the issue yet, just the first part of Laird's statement. I think it would have been even better if he'd used one of my quotes regarding Lawson's art, seeing as how I'm probably more vocal about it than most. That woulda been funny.

08-20-2003, 05:07 PM	#28
Taloniss Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,819	Good issue. The part where they cremate Splinter was very emotional.

08-20-2003, 05:12 PM	#29
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,110	Having been disappointed with issue #10, this was the issue that would settle my feeling on Splinter's death. And in the end I find myself at peace with it all. I liked the issue, although the beginning and end were quite odd and it's unclear how these events tie into our green heroes. I'm guessing Don snipped a piece of Splinter's fur.. but why? And I loved the inclusion of Kevin and Peter at the funeral. How perfect. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

08-20-2003, 05:38 PM	#30
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I wondered why Don did that too. It'd be hella-gay if he did something like try to clone Splinter from his fur or something (if that was indeed what he took). Overall, an ok issue. From reading the lettercol though I'm becoming more and more convinced that PL takes himself entirely too seriously and can't handle the slightest bit of criticism or fun being made at his expense from anyone about anything, but maybe that's just the impression I get from his replies to fanmail and his little stories he tells. It seems lately that the majority function of the lettercol is to "prove" to people who criticize that they're wrong. Almost every letter this issue was sure to mention how "Lawson's critics should shut up, people who don't like how things are done in the book shouldn't read it"..... it seems like Laird and Co. are insecure, the way they constantly feel the need to address the critics they claim to not lpay attention to. I don't think they understand that the reason people criticize (and there's a difference between "criticizing" and "bashing", and they ought to understand that too) is because they only want things to be better. Sigh. Decent issue overall. Hopefully some of the plot threads that have been introduced so far will be cleared up before they introduce too much else into the story, it's getting a little bit cluttered story-wise. Lawson's art looked the same as always to me, no better or worse. Glad to hear some more news about Tales From the TMNT, I'm looking forward to that.

08-20-2003, 05:55 PM	#31
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,110	Concerning the letters, I think you just have issues with the fact that there are people who hold different opinions than you. Peter didn't just pull out random letters to back up Jim's art. A lot of those letters are not from first time writers, but rather from long time fans whose names I've come to recognize (among them some personal friends). One does not "rig" a letters collumn by publishing letters from longtime readers. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

08-20-2003, 08:49 PM	#32
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	Man, I was so excited to get this issue tonight! I started skimming through it, and was in shock to see all the special guests that showed. From Renet to even Eastman and Laird themselves. I'm quite curious as to who the furry creature was standing near Renet. I almost had this wild hunch it was a mutated version of the original Klunk. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

08-20-2003, 09:07 PM	#33
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one, Rose, for whatever it's worth. Ever since the lettercol a few issues ago where Laird first started tossing the "moron" label around to stick on people who send in what he feels to be unarranted criticism, every single issue (starting with that one) has been full of letters with nothing but gushing praise, and maybe I'm overly cynical, but it really smacks of "See? I told you so!" I think, if anything, it's Peter Laird who has "issues" with anyone who doesn't agree with what HE thinks. I mean, sure, not everyone who sends in criticism is likely to be intelligent about it, but the way Laird replies to people is so condescending it aggravates me. It's like he generalizes ALL the people who disagree or criticize as "morons", "idiots", or whatever else he feels comfortable with, and it aint right. So now, instead of printing ANY criticism, he prints letters of nothing but praise. Which I can definitely understand... why bother replying to someone who says the same things he's heard over and over again and is obviously sick of hearing? But at the same time, it seems like the most recent lettercols have been about "proving" to the naysayers that their opinion is "wrong" by showing how many people disagree. And there's nothing exactly wrong with that, it's certainly his prerogative, it just rubs me wrong because by going so far to prove how much he doesn't care about the criticism, he does a 180 and proves just how much it DOES bother him. Which is a shame, because someone who's lasted so long in the industry and made so much money and had so much success really ought to have a little thicker skin. He should be glad he's not Mark Waid. HE's getting eaten alive by a large portion of the Superman fanbase over the "Birthright" mini-series he's doing... Regardless... there's little else I can say on this, aside from the fact that your statement of me having "issues" with people who disagree with me is, with all due respect, patently ludicrous, since unlike some people around here who I HAVE had issues with, I don't call people who disagree with me names, or call their opinions stupid. I simply state my opinion, or reiterate it for the sake of those who may have missed it the first time, and if someone disagrees or questions my logic, I explain my opinion to them. Based on that, they can then either agree to disagree, or else be persuaded to my way of thinking. But that's up to them. And if you think that it's outside the realm of possibility for a publisher or company to only print positive reviews of their product, well... I have two words for you: WWE Magazine.

08-20-2003, 09:23 PM	#34
Stefano Stone Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 762	who is klunk. renet and the cat person are gonna attack it looks like. ANd i hope don doesnt clone __________________ Leo: Your reign of terror is over Stockman! Mike: have you been practicing that? Leo: You like it? Utrom: this says ritc sir, and its written in crayon sir! Something wicked this way comes Mr. Show is the best!

08-21-2003, 10:31 AM	#35
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	What excactly did Laird say that would settle any doubts that he reads the forum? __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

08-21-2003, 02:50 PM	#40
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,110	"Somehow he knows" implies that somehow he knew that Splinter had died and he had come to pay his silent repects. He wasn't invited, but he showed up anyway. He was not demutated or anything silly like that. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com