Everything Great About TMNT 2014

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

which means either the weapons where dulled and rather useless anyway, or saki had access to super strong armor material

Nah, it means that PD Leo have no clue on how to use a katana. The blade is so weak and so easy to break or bend, you'd never try to slash through armor, and Japanese armor got nothing on full on metal armor like what PD Shredder was sporting.

It's kinda fitting that the Turtles have no clue on how to use their weapons properly, it's in-canon with Splinter just finding a picture-by-picture book on "ninja fighting". When Shredder was telling Raph that "The rat did not teach you well!" he wasn't taunting him, he was just being truthful.

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Dude, Fan4stic was a better movie than this.

Savage.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Nah, it means that PD Leo have no clue on how to use a katana.

It's kinda fitting that the Turtles have no clue on how to use their weapons properly, it's in-canon with Splinter just finding a picture-by-picture book on "ninja fighting".

Took the words right out of my mouth. If your home schooling consisted of rat dad reading one single book on the subject, yeah, your know-how is gonna be a bit off.

He does use them against Foot members in the lair, though I don't recall him doing any damage. Donnie does use his bow against people some (and no, the plane is the second film), but I guess that's the safer one to show to keep it kid friendly. I guess Raph uses his defensively a little (which technically is their use anyhow). Mikey however I don't recall ever actually hitting anyone.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

I'm not saying it was the best of movies or the best TMNT outing, but it was fun, did the characters justice, so I don't have any reason to dislike it.

This kind of reminds me of my next bit of bedtime reading, on its way from the nearest Amazon fulfillment center:

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

I'm not saying it was the best of movies or the best TMNT outing, but it was fun, did the characters justice, so I don't have any reason to dislike it.

Again -internet preface- my opinion, put down the pitch forks - end preface

Anyone who says these movies did the characters justice has to be a new fan who wasn't introduced to the older stuff first.

The characters where 'written' like the writers had only the basics of knowledge. they know there is a guy named Shredder. they know they are turtles. they know they are mutants. they know one is smart, one leads, one is angry, one is dumb. they know the chick is hot but doesn't do much else (if they base it on the 80s)...

the personalities of the characters are cookie cutter basic so much they don't even HAVE personalities. Raph tries to get some at the end of the first movie but it comes so far out of left field, even the yankees would have a hard time seeing that pitch coming at them.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Again -internet preface- my opinion, put down the pitch forks - end preface

Okay, I'll be polite about this.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Anyone who says these movies did the characters justice has to be a new fan who wasn't introduced to the older stuff first.

The characters where 'written' like the writers had only the basics of knowledge. they know there is a guy named Shredder. they know they are turtles. they know they are mutants. they know one is smart, one leads, one is angry, one is dumb. they know the chick is hot but doesn't do much else (if they base it on the 80s)...

the personalities of the characters are cookie cutter basic so much they don't even HAVE personalities. Raph tries to get some at the end of the first movie but it comes so far out of left field, even the yankees would have a hard time seeing that pitch coming at them.

I was a fan of the 2012 cartoon going into this movie (and had seen a few random episodes of the other shows), so I'm not exactly a newbie here.

For the record, what "older stuff first" do you have in mind when you say that the movie doesn't live up to the characterizations? I might have a easier time understanding you if I knew where you were coming from.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Okay, I'll be polite about this.



I was a fan of the 2012 cartoon going into this movie (and had seen a few random episodes of the other shows), so I'm not exactly a newbie here.

For the record, what "older stuff first" do you have in mind when you say that the movie doesn't live up to the characterizations? I might have a easier time understanding you if I knew where you were coming from.

Let's put it this way.

These movies make NO effort to develop characters or personality AT ALL in their stories. They RELY, like an f'ing CRUTCH, on viewers' prior knowledge of TMNT relationships from prior incarnations (mainly Fred Wolf). It's the highest possible order of laziness and viewers should look past their nostalgia to realize what a huge insult it is.

And if you're a fan of the 2012 cartoon and that's what you came in on, yes, you are, in fact, a newbie. No shame in that. But educate yourself. It's a big wide world of TMNT.

[Vegita-San]

To me,

When I think TMNT, and the TRUE spirit of what TMNT could be...

I think 4Kids.

It has the right mixture of kick butt action. even with TV limits, it doesn't pull any punches (cutting off shredders head on TV was a total shock). It has the right amount of humor, and more importantly the right amount of heart. It also throws some new in there every now and then to keep you guessing.

When I think what TMNT is, I think of the first movie for more or less those same reasons.

When I think what TMNT could be on the slightly more dialogue side...I think IDW. Comedy side, Fred Wolf.


I know i'm probably wasting my breath hear explaining all this again, as I'm getting those vibes of that when i start to repeat things in a thread....


But when I think of what TMNT ISN'T...

I think Next Mutation. Done by an outside source and limited budget...and people who tried (mostly mirage's side, probably), but didn't quite get it right.

I think The Nick Cartoon Series. It started out OK, but then just got sloppy. not really sure what it wanted to be, and not sure where it's going.

I definitely do not even count the movies as being part of the tmnt universe. The guy who started them knew so little about what made the franchise tick, he wanted to make them aliens. he basically just copy and pasted his transformers formula onto TMNT. The TMNT Movies of '12 are TMNT In Name Only.

As many problems as i have with the new nick show, there ARE cool things in it done RIGHT. Bebop And Rocksteady. Slash. The Fugitoid was Awesome. The basic Krang Drones are cool too (could do with out the primes). The new Splinter, both voice and design is perfect. there IS stuff to defend there as being done right.

With the MOVIES, to ME, at least, there is NOTHING to defend. take away the turtles, rename the other characters, no one would care one bit about this crap. it would have lasted about two weeks in theaters and forgotten soon after.

that's how i feel about it at least. everyone else is free to differ.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As a Ninja Turtles fan, not everything has to be directed and aimed exactly at MY taste. I don't like Archie or Fred Wolf at all. Or Fast Forward, or whatever.

But it ALL has to be GOOD. If it's NOT well written, then we're all suffering for it.

Platinum Dunes TMNT is not, has not, and never will be good. There is nothing to like about it; there is no reason to support it. You buy tickets or DVDs, you are lining the pockets of executives who laugh at you for liking stupid things and not liking them ENOUGH to really care about them.

Given a choice between being an angry geek or a stupid shill sycophant, I'll take the angry geek option every time.

And I've said enough on it, I know nobody's gonna be convinced. Bowing out now, leaving Andrew to make vegetation jokes. Knock 'em dead, Modeen.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

As a Ninja Turtles fan, not everything has to be directed and aimed exactly at MY taste. I don't like Archie or Fred Wolf at all. Or Fast Forward, or whatever.

But it ALL has to be GOOD. If it's NOT well written, then we're all suffering for it.

Platinum Dunes TMNT is not, has not, and never will be good. There is nothing to like about it; there is no reason to support it. You buy tickets or DVDs, you are lining the pockets of executives who laugh at you for liking stupid things and not liking them ENOUGH to really care about them.

Given a choice between being an angry geek or a stupid shill sycophant, I'll take the angry geek option every time.

And I've said enough on it, I know nobody's gonna be convinced. Bowing out now, leaving Andrew to make vegetation jokes. Knock 'em dead, Modeen.

If all the angry geeks of the world bowed out, the pr oblem would only get worse ;o) Then they'd know no one truly cared to put up a fight for what is right and good and properly written ;o)..

Nothing wrong with being an angry geek, so long as you keep it directed at the movie, or at least keep it constructive

[Wildcat]

Ya know the one reason this gets so much hate is...Michael Bay.

If we never knew about the alien idea or reshoots or even the fact he was involved nobody would have made such a big deal over it. It would have come and gone and no one would have cared enough to complain as much as they do.

I thought it was ok but some of the of the really dumb stuff brought it down for me. If some people like it more than me that's fine. I don't think they're being shill or stupid or that the studio is laughing at them. If they like it for whatever reasons who cares?

It's a movie. I can pretty much guarantee we ALL have movie(s) we enjoy that most considered dumb or bad. It's not that big a deal.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Ya know the one reason this gets so much hate is...Michael Bay.

This argument holds no weight. If you applied even 2% of the energy in your mind towards reading people's actual, genuine, valid, well thought out complaints, rather than spewing dismissive faithless assumptions every time an opinion is stated, you might make a few friends around here.

People hate the writing, some of the acting/casting, the designs, etc. Michael Bay had very little to do with these films, & they were so far gone from the ground up for him to have made them much worse from their point of conception. Take his name off & nothing changes, literally every issue taken by fans remains 100% valid.

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by Powder

This argument holds no weight. If you applied even 2% of the energy in your mind towards reading people's actual, genuine, valid, well thought out complaints, rather than spewing dismissive faithless assumptions every time an opinion is stated, you might make a few friends around here.

People hate the writing, some of the acting/casting, the designs, etc. Michael Bay had very little to do with these films, & they were so far gone from the ground up for him to have made them much worse from their point of conception. Take his name off & nothing changes, literally every issue taken by fans remains 100% valid.

Ive read them. Before and now. I get it, we all get it...big ugly turtles, learning from a book, generic themes, dumb jokes and over the top action is what people hate. (which Bay was part of)

Still doesn't change the fact that people exaggerate it and then crush anyone else who might like it calling them shill and stuff. This is just as stupid.

Let's all list things we like that most others don't. In fact there used to be a topic in the TV/Movies section like that.

[Powder]

You might argue that some exaggerate the reality of its faults, others might argue that you exaggerate the exaggeration or are far too accepting. It's all subjective. No point going there.

But okay, you do acknowledge some of the things people dislike, that's good! So then you should be aware that Bay wasn't really responsible for much more than the militarization of The Foot, & the car chase type stuff, which are somehow pretty low on the tat totem. Folks hate Appelbaum & Nemec more than any other creative contributor, I assure you.

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by Powder

You might argue that some exaggerate the reality of its faults, others might argue that you exaggerate the exaggeration or are far too accepting. It's all subjective. No point going there.

But okay, you do acknowledge some of the things people dislike, that's good! So then you should be aware that Bay wasn't really responsible for much more than the militarization of The Foot, & the car chase type stuff, which are somehow pretty low on the tat totem. Folks hate Appelbaum & Nemec more than any other creative contributor, I assure you.

Well I'm gonna assume you never read the entire post before cause I never claimed I was one who really liked it anyway. I said the really dumb stuff is what brought it down for me. I don't own the DVD either. If that makes you feel any better.

Far too accepting? Nah. I just don't view the the movie industry through the amazing amount of negativity most others seem to do. They're movies. I always try to at least see where some effort was made. Some I really like, some are just ok. Others I don't care much either way. I don't think it's that a big a deal.

[Candy Kappa]

I was fine with Bay being attached to the movie when it was announced, it was the revealing of the Turtle designs that made me jump ship.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Platinum Dunes TMNT is not, has not, and never will be good. There is nothing to like about it; there is no reason to support it. You buy tickets or DVDs, you are lining the pockets of executives who laugh at you for liking stupid things and not liking them ENOUGH to really care about them.

Considering I had a good time at the movie, I hardly think that I was taken advantage of.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Given a choice between being an angry geek or a stupid shill sycophant, I'll take the angry geek option every time.

I'll take the people who are honest about their opinions, whether or not they're the popular one.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Far too accepting? Nah. I just don't view the the movie industry through the amazing amount of negativity most others seem to do. They're movies. I always try to at least see where some effort was made. Some I really like, some are just ok. Others I don't care much either way. I don't think it's that a big a deal.

Dude, there are reasons for this.


When companies ignore long time fans, and in some cases, spit in their faces over and over again(meghan Fox, Feig), Fans are going to rebell and see things negatively. at least the ones who have the will power to stand up against something they loved and say 'that's not right!'

All these reboots arn't being done for the fans. they are being done for anew generation that the studio for some reason HOPES will become NEW fans (That they can oddly ignore in ten years for the next generation).

The problem is that this new generation isn't loyal to anything and will move on to the next big thing as soon as they tire of what's current and popular.

Case in Point Star Trek.

Enterprise was supposed to attract a NEW generation of Star Trek fans, and it failed miserably. they wnted to seperate so much from the brand, they used some pop radio sounding song as the theme, and dropped star trek from it's title. By the time they paid attention to the fans in season 4 it was far too late and felt like pandering.

Did Paramount learn their lesson? nope. They did it again with JJ trek. and that grand adventure started to fail in the second movie. meanwhile, the loyal friend and true star trek fans are growing more pissed by the day, and there is a chance you will never win them back into the fold.

So, who exactly wins here?

not the fan base. you divided and conquered them. you have the people who will defend blandness for whatever reason. and you have the people willing to trash you for that same blandness. then you have the casuals who will like it for two hours and move on with their lives.

One would think, especially after this disaster of a summer season, that hollywood dwould learn this isn't a good idea and go back to catering to the old fans.... but... probably not.


Especially when people see it as 'no big deal'...you'll continue to get dreck.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Ya know the one reason this gets so much hate is...Michael Bay.

If we never knew about the alien idea or reshoots or even the fact he was involved nobody would have made such a big deal over it. It would have come and gone and no one would have cared enough to complain as much as they do.

IF it wasn't bay, we probably would have gotten another run of the mill director with a different mediocre effort and people would have hated it just as much.

The problem is that people getting these big tentpole franchises with built in fan bases either out right hate the job they are given, don't care enough to take it seriously, or don't bother to understand it....or in some cases, use it to get their dream job later.

that right there is also part of the problem.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Enterprise was supposed to attract a NEW generation of Star Trek fans, and it failed miserably.

This is revisionist history. And false. The actual ratings of Enterprise were pretty far from bad, and very consistent. They just weren't getting any better, and Enterprise was very costly to make compared to the rest of their lineup.

By the time they paid attention to the fans in season 4 it was far too late and felt like pandering.

Season 4 was pretty bad because it felt like fan-pandering. Because it was. Every episode was, "Look how this ties to this episode of TOS, or TNG" while ceasing even trying to be its own thing. By the time we're spending two episodes with Noonien Soongh's grandpa or whatever it's just like, "Aw, c'mon, guys..."

Season 3 of Enterprise, I would maintain, as a collective whole remains the best Trek I've ever seen in any media.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Season 4 was pretty bad because it felt like fan-pandering. Because it was. Every episode was, "Look how this ties to this episode of TOS, or TNG" while ceasing even trying to be its own thing. By the time we're spending two episodes with Noonien Soongh's grandpa or whatever it's just like, "Aw, c'mon, guys..."

Season 3 of Enterprise, I would maintain, as a collective whole remains the best Trek I've ever seen in any media.

Apart from Angry Archer, I'd have to agree with this. IT felt like it was gaining new ground and exploring new areas not seen before.

Season 4 felt like stuff they SHOULD have spread out across 7 years crammed into about 10 episodes.

That whole Mirror universe thing was just pure crap and an excuse to bring the 1701 bridge onto screen.

THe stupid augments saga and the shot for shot remake of kahns last moments was a big groaner..

I think the only reason the fans liked season 4 is because it felt like they where recognizing past history.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Apart from Angry Archer, I'd have to agree with this. IT felt like it was gaining new ground and exploring new areas not seen before.

Season 4 felt like stuff they SHOULD have spread out across 7 years crammed into about 10 episodes.

That whole Mirror universe thing was just pure crap and an excuse to bring the 1701 bridge onto screen.

THe stupid augments saga and the shot for shot remake of kahns last moments was a big groaner..

I think the only reason the fans liked season 4 is because it felt like they where recognizing past history.

I wouldn't have minded if nuggets of season 4 had been spread out throughout the seasons... but as is, it's just a nostalgia hammer bludgeoning you with every passing episode. It was too blatant, and I don't like being told by TPTB what I'm supposed to like and what is supposed to be placating me when I was perfectly fine with the way it was, especially coming fresh off the pitch perfect season 3.

That said, admittedly it was kinda neat to see the fate of the Defiant from "Mirror, Mirror."