About Broken Foot... (S4 Spoilers)

[TMNTInsighter]

Is it safe to say that "Owari" (and to some extent "Requiem") is the antithesis of "Broken Foot"? It always bothered me that, even though it's basically an anti-revenge story, Karai (and Leo) got a lot of flak for going on the offensive against Shredder and his organization, especially when Donatello ended up getting hurt after some of the most ridiculous set of circumstances drew him and the other turtles to the Auman chemical plant...we even had a good argument b/w PapaGreg and someone else between the right and wrongs of Karai's actions in that episodes discussion thread. Now all of a sudden it's not an issue at all?

I mean after "Requiem", it's a totally different story! They even suited up to do what Karai has been trying to do all season after some encouragement from her from her hospital bed in "Owari". My point is, that when you take "Broken Foot" into context, does the sudden shift in tone, and possibly theme, during these final two episodes bother anyone or come off a bit weird? If BF is one of your favorite episodes from this season, do these final two episodes make you think any less of it or not?

[Vicky82]

No this is totally different because in Broken Foot, Karai and Leo were doing it wrong. Karai wasn't in her right mind and kept destroying Shredder stuff and Leo was helping her and leaving his brothers out.

The Turtles thought Shredder was dead anyway until Leo had his vision with Splinter where he told Leo Shredder is alive. The Turtles had to kill Shredder otherwise he will still go after them. So the turtles have finished mourning, they are in there right mind and now working as a team to take out Shredder.

The difference between Karai and the Turtles is that Shredder raised Karai on revenge, the Turtles weren't, so it was probably a good thing Karai wasn't in the final fight.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

The difference between Karai and the Turtles is that Shredder raised Karai on revenge, the Turtles weren't, so it was probably a good thing Karai wasn't in the final fight.

That makes no sense whatsoever, it doesn't matter who Karai was raised or how the turtles was raised, revenge is revenge and if the turtles followed Karai's plan Splinter would've still been alive and kicking. The season finale is pretty much the antithesis to the theme of the series in that "revenge is bad".

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

That makes no sense whatsoever, it doesn't matter who Karai was raised or how the turtles was raised, revenge is revenge and if the turtles followed Karai's plan Splinter would've still been alive and kicking. The season finale is pretty much the antithesis to the theme of the series in that "revenge is bad".

I would also add that the episode did a bad job of trying to rationalize the possible wrongness of Karai's actions (whereas in "Owari" it's a little more simple for Auman). Obviously Peter DiCicco was trying to copy his success from "Vengeance is Mine" but he did not do a good job in displaying how Karai's plans are more reckless and/or dangerous than any of the other turtles' missions, b/c in my book they're not! If you want to blame Leo for not letting his brothers in on it I can stand that even though I think Leo's level of culpability is a gray area at best.
Like I said, the other turtles found their way to the chemical plant under the most ridiculous of circumstances. You can just as easily imagine the turtles doing something like Leo and Karai did at the chemical plant, and then the Mutanimals would be introduced doing one of their own investigations and when they find themselves there the same thing happens to them as it did to Donnie because the turtles and they weren't on the same page; that's how manipulative and schematic BF was compared to how simpler Owari was.

Also adding to your idea that the finale is indeed the antithesis of BF is the fact that they pretty much don the same outfit as Leo did in BF (in their own ways of course) so that's a big sign for me as well.

P.S. Jester has gotta be one of the Absolute bestest moderators of any site I've ever seen EVAR! <3<3 <3

[Mod Edit by Machias: I fixed that for ya, Insighter. You clearly were trolling with your thread title. I don't like to do it, but if it's the only way to get to you...]

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

That makes no sense whatsoever, it doesn't matter who Karai was raised or how the turtles was raised, revenge is revenge and if the turtles followed Karai's plan Splinter would've still been alive and kicking. The season finale is pretty much the antithesis to the theme of the series in that "revenge is bad".

Plan???? what Plan???????

Since Broken Foot, she sat on her arse not doing anything in Insecta Trifecta until she got attacked by Baxter. In The Super Shredder, she sat on her arse until Shredder came and attacked her and Shinigami. In the next episode after she helped Leo and April fight Super Shredder, while the others went to get Splinter from undercity.

And in Requiem, Karai was still searching for Shredder's new hideout with help from Rockwell but Shredder arrived and and attacked them. So she didn't have plan all she was doing was searching for his hideout.

Anyway Can't you people wait till the episodes airs in English so you can understand it better.

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Plan???? what Plan???????

Since Broken Foot, she sat on her arse not doing anything in Insecta Trifecta until she got attacked by Baxter. In The Super Shredder, she sat on her arse until Shredder came and attacked her and Shinigami. In the next episode after she helped Leo and April fight Super Shredder, while the others went to get Splinter from undercity.

And in Requiem, Karai was still searching for Shredder's new hideout with help from Rockwell but Shredder arrived and and attacked them. So she didn't have plan all she was doing was searching for his hideout.

Anyway Can't you people wait till the episodes airs in English so you can understand it better.

I blame the series and its writing staff more than Karai for that.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Plan???? what Plan???????

Since Broken Foot, she sat on her arse not doing anything in Insecta Trifecta until she got attacked by Baxter. In The Super Shredder, she sat on her arse until Shredder came and attacked her and Shinigami. In the next episode after she helped Leo and April fight Super Shredder, while the others went to get Splinter from undercity.

And in Requiem, Karai was still searching for Shredder's new hideout with help from Rockwell but Shredder arrived and and attacked them. So she didn't have plan

Her plan in attacking Shredder's empire and going after him at least that what she wanted in Broken Foot also I call B.S on her not finding out Shredder's hideout, I mean with all of her mercenaries and gadgets she could't have someone follow Shredder's enforcers or put some kind of tracking chip on them.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Her plan in attacking Shredder's empire and going after him at least that what she wanted in Broken Foot also I call B.S on her not finding out Shredder's hideout, I mean with all of her mercenaries and gadgets she could't have someone follow Shredder's enforcers or put some kind of tracking chip on them.

But she knew attacking his empire was wrong, that's why she decided to go after him instead but she still had to search for him first.

She did use her mercenaries but they still didn't find him. So as a last resort she has asked Rockwell for help to look for Shredder.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

But she knew attacking his empire was wrong, that's why she decided to go after him instead but she still had to search for him first.

She did use her mercenaries but they still didn't find him. So as a last resort she has asked Rockwell for help to look for Shredder.

No attacking his empire was actually smart the reason why it was wrong in the show is because "reasons" I guess.


And again why could't she used some sort of tracking device when she encountered one of Shredder's enforcers or have her mercs follow them.

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

No attacking his empire was actually smart the reason why it was wrong in the show is because "reasons" I guess.


And again why could't she used some sort of tracking device when she encountered one of Shredder's enforcers or have her mercs follow them.

Like I said, Peter DiCicco is the biggest culprit here, not Karai (or Leo). He did a bad job with BF and afterwards the series was just as big a culprit since they did a bad job in handling Karai and her planning going forward, almost to the point of not even making it a factor.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

No attacking his empire was actually smart the reason why it was wrong in the show is because "reasons" I guess.

No it wasn't because she could of gotten people killed, like civilians. She was blowing buildings up. If she gotten caught by police she would be charged with terroism

And again why could't she used some sort of tracking device when she encountered one of Shredder's enforcers or have her mercs follow them.

She probably didn't have a tracking device if she did then Baxter probably installed some sort of jamming device so the hideout was untrackable.

Maybe her mercenaries did follow them but they gotten killed when they found out. Shredder did have foot bots out in grounds and Tiger Claw had pet tigers

[victory_angel]

She was trying to weaken Shredders empire by taking out the areas where he was stockpiliing weapons, storing money, and gaining ammunitions. Karai has said herself her whole life has been nothing but vengance, so the only way she knows how to get things done is by approaching them offencively.

The turtles on the other hand were raised to believe that vengance doesn't bring satisfaction. It only causes a never ending cycle of pain and sorrow. Leo only assisted Karai because he understood that Shredder would never be happy until all of them were dead so the only way to end the war was to take out the shredder for good.

He didn't tell his brothers what he was doing because he was protecting them. And when they were attacking the plant, Leo did express that his brothers should be brought in on it. But Karai said they were too obedient to Splinter. The only reason the other Turtles went after Leo was because ICK was trying to tell Mikey what Leo was up to. And that was how Mikey learned Leo was missing.

And as a result Donnie got hurt because they knew Leo was involved in something but didn't know what he was actually doing. The only reason Donnie was hurt was because he noticed the explosives and recognized the danger they were in.

At the end of the episode Karai states that she's wasting her time focusing on Shredders empire and instead would focus on taking out the Shredder himself.
And all the episodes up to Requiem trying to find were Shredder is hiding.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

No it wasn't because she could of gotten people killed, like civilians. She was blowing buildings up.

So the turtles could't have gotten people killed when they are fighting The Foot or The Krang also New York in this series is empty so I doubt she could have hurt anyone(well except for Donnie).

Originally Posted by Vicky82

She probably didn't have a tracking device if she did then Baxter probably installed some sort of jamming device so the hideout was untrackable.

Maybe her mercenaries did follow them but they gotten killed when they found out. Shredder did have foot bots out in grounds and Tiger Claw had pet tigers

So she could't find the area where the hideout is located, even if the jamming device was a 60 mile radius she would at least have something.

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Snip

Angel honey everyone in this thread saw the episode, you don't have to recap for us.