So what did we take away from this series?

[myconius]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

And geek Leo needs to be a thing from now on.

i'm TOTALLY with you on this!!!

i've had this wish for the IDW comics to have Michelangelo come across some comics that were secretly well hidden in the lair and be reading them.

and eventually have it come out that they were Leo's secret collection all along.

but have it be something really cool like an spoof version of 'Lone Wolf and Cub' or 'Kubikiri Asa' to avoid any copyright infringement.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

At this point I would not be surprised if Bebop/Rocksteady appear in every single new TMNT incarnation. They've already been in all 3 during the Nick revival, they're in the IDW comics, Nick cartoon and the new Michael Bay movies.

If they were absent from at least one of the 3 new series I would say they could be moved on from, but they used them in all 3. They'll probably be in future series too.

Yeah, I have to agree with this...

I mean, one of the biggest 'complaints' I've seen with certain incarnations where they're absent is...people asking for them to appear. Back when TMNT (2007) came out, I remember several reviews giving it a F because they, Shredder, and Kraang were not in it.

I really wish TMNT could move on from the 80s cartoon nostalgia, and I say this as someone who grew up on it. I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop, but they just had to dip in the 1987 well there... Then again, many of the fans clamor for them to appear in everything Ninja Turtles related.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If they were absent from at least one of the 3 new series I would say they could be moved on from, but they used them in all 3. They'll probably be in future series too.

"There's no point in wondering this now. A new cartoon is years off."

Originally Posted by myconius

i'm TOTALLY with you on this!!!

i've had this wish for the IDW comics to have Michelangelo come across some comics that were secretly well hidden in the lair and be reading them.

and eventually have it come out that they were Leo's secret collection all along.

but have it be something really cool like an spoof version of 'Lone Wolf and Cub' or 'Kubikiri Asa' to avoid any copyright infringement.

That'd be cool. I don't dislike IDW Leo, but they certainly haven't done anything to make me fall in love with him yet.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

That'd be cool. I don't dislike IDW Leo, but they certainly haven't done anything to make me fall in love with him yet.

i know what you mean. as much as i enjoy Leo in the IDW stories he really needs to grow.
either showing more Badassness like in the Mirage comics, or show more personality like in the Nick cartoons.
or dare i hope for BOTH???

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Yeah, I have to agree with this...

I mean, one of the biggest 'complaints' I've seen with certain incarnations where they're absent is...people asking for them to appear. Back when TMNT (2007) came out, I remember several reviews giving it a F because they, Shredder, and Kraang were not in it.

I really wish TMNT could move on from the 80s cartoon nostalgia, and I say this as someone who grew up on it. I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop, but they just had to dip in the 1987 well there... Then again, many of the fans clamor for them to appear in everything Ninja Turtles related.

Outside of movie 2 (where I did want them as opposed to Tokka and Rahzaa), I can't think of anyplace where I expected to see them again. I was one of those opposed to them being in this show...but I like the fact that they're not brainless goons and I really like how the two play off of each other. I also like the fact that we learned of them prior to the forced, literally, mutations. Better backstory.

I'm surprised by what you said about the 2007 film. For me personally, I just found the film mediocre. There wasn't anything memorable for me from it.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop

i just wish Fishface and Dogpound had better designs.
at least Bradford had gotten a nice Werewolf makeover in season 2, but Xever just stayed a fish with silly robotic legs.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by myconius

i just wish Fishface and Dogpound had better designs.
at least Bradford had gotten a nice Werewolf makeover in season 2, but Xever just stayed a fish with silly robotic legs.

I've always liked their mutated designs, especially Xever's. To be honest, I wasn't too keen on Bradford's Rahzar form from the start, but over time I grew accustomed to it.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Jephael

I've always liked their mutated designs, especially Xever's. To be honest, I wasn't too keen on Bradford's Rahzar form from the start, but over time I grew accustomed to it.

i can definitely appreciate people liking these designs.
myself, even when i was a kid i've always preferred more horrific looking villains and monsters.
like the creature design from John Carpenter's The Thing or American Werewolf in London.
the kind of stuff that gives nightmares

[CyberCubed]

Technically Bebop/Rocksteady have appeared in every mainline series after Mirage aside from the original movie trilogy:

Original cartoon
Archie comics
4kids during Turtles Forever
Nick
IDW
Michael Bay movies

At this point they're just like Baxter, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, etc....sort of the fact that you expect them to appear in every series now.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Technically Bebop/Rocksteady have appeared in every mainline series after Mirage aside from the original movie trilogy:

Original cartoon
Archie comics
4kids during Turtles Forever
Nick
IDW
Michael Bay movies

At this point they're just like Baxter, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, etc....sort of the fact that you expect them to appear in every series now.

Now there's something that never occurred to me before. Even though they never had their own modern day 2003 counterparts in that show's reality, they did still get to show up as depicted in the Fred Wolf series universe during the aforementioned crossover event.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

If any of the mutant duos are to become a staple in all the turtles incarnations, it would without a doubt be B&R. Razhar and Tokka, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, Dogpound and Fishface are all cool but I think none of them would've been ever possible without Bebop and Rocksteady.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

If any of the mutant duos are to become a staple in all the turtles incarnations, it would without a doubt be B&R. Razhar and Tokka, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, Dogpound and Fishface are all cool but I think none of them would've been ever possible without Bebop and Rocksteady.

and Wingnut and Screwloose

[Technogeek29]

Would like them to be absent from the next installment cartoon or comic otherwise. And really would've preferred Bradford and Xever to have stayed humans if they REALLY NEEDED TO MUTATE THEM could've waited until season 2 where the series was dealing with rapid mutations and it would've demonstrated that the Turtles are too much for them as humans anymore towards the end. Anyone remember panic in the sewers? Dogpound's first appearance is still exciting to me when I see it (y'know before he became a joke)

Tiger Claw if more is done with him in the future I can see him being a main stay.Untapped would be the right way to describe a lot of stuff from the Nick show.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

Would like them to be absent from the next installment cartoon or comic otherwise. And really would've preferred Bradford and Xever to have stayed humans if they REALLY NEEDED TO MUTATE THEM could've waited until season 2 where the series was dealing with rapid mutations and it would've demonstrated that the Turtles are too much for them as humans anymore towards the end. Anyone remember panic in the sewers? Dogpound's first appearance is still exciting to me when I see it (y'know before he became a joke)

Tiger Claw if more is done with him in the future I can see him being a main stay.Untapped would be the right way to describe a lot of stuff from the Nick show.

Would really people let B&R remain absent though? The next series could have one of the most awesomest new henchmen duo and people would still whinge for B&R.

I think Dogpound and Xever became jokes when they had to make the new henchmen look powerful, which is why I personally think the next show should hold off on adding B&R. They can be fun, but once they show up, they seem to steal time and attention from any other henchmen do that show up, which can get annoying if one likes the new henchmen or if one just isn't a fan of B&R or the OT (it seem to be FW fans that clamor for them, mostly.)

Nick Turtles had A LOT of untapped potential. I think (and hope) that in the future, there will be a series or a comic run that does the same thing with this show that IDW did with the OT Turtles. Removing the crap while keeping what was good and making it better. I think it would likely keep X&B as powerhouses, there is so much more they can do with them then if they just nerfed them to make B&R look good.

[CyberCubed]

The bulk of the IDW comic stories and characters are remakes or re-tellings of all the past major TMNT storylines in every series. They do some new things like the Pantheon story and Splinter taking over the Foot, but IDW is basically "TMNT the remake."

IDW plays it far more safe with its characters and stories than Nick did most of the time.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Would really people let B&R remain absent though? The next series could have one of the most awesomest new henchmen duo and people would still whinge for B&R.

Let them whine. And scream into the abyss.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I think a lot of the overabundance of mutants and FW characters in the Nick show was a response to them basically being banned in the 4Kids show. Once TMNT got sold and a new show got made it was their chance to bring back all the characters that didn't get to come back in the last "revival".

Hopefully (and I do mean that because I'm kinda sick of how "mutant-heavy" the Nick show is), now that we've seen all these characters redone, the next show can cut it back down to just the characters that need to be there. Not necessarily a total ban on non-Mirage-based characters like the 4Kids show, but using the Non-Mirage Mutants sparingly and only where one fits in well.

And, if I was somehow in charge of the next show I'd use Bebop and Rocksteady, but not as Shredder's henchmen, or even as major characters. But, just as two small-time thugs in the occasional filler episode that happen to be Mutants.

If I gave Shredder Mutant animal henchmen, they'd be Tokka and Rahzar, but I really think an army of Foot Soldiers (human or robot), Foot Elite, Foot Mystics, and the mutant Shredder Clones from "Return to NY" (and maybe a Hun or Tatsu like character, who's human) are enough.

[dragonside]

The Nick Turtles,

Before I get into I'd like to create a little comparison

Mirage Comics = Original (Meant to be serious, but had a mix of fun and lot gritty action)

FW Cartoon = Parody of the Original (Meant to be fun, got more serious later? Red Sky anyone?)

2k3 Cartoon = Adaptation of the Original with elements of the parody (Meant to be serious but added fun... more and more Fun after Season 5, Fast foward, Back to the Sewers, and Turtles Forever)

2012 Cartoon = Adaptation of the Parody with elements of the original, and other spinoffs (Fun with brilliance and homages to some of everything)

I by no means think of the FW cartoon as a joke, but I just wanted to highlight that it was meant to be lighthearted. Everything is some sort of remix.

[Tarris Vaal]

I'm curious as to peoples thoughts to the Nick variant on Kraang -

Namely making them a dominated hive mind 'species' born from the Utrom.

As opposed to keeping the Utrom as a race and Kraang as a distinct member of that race.

Is this idea of a... Utrom civil war (as such) something that will stick in future incarnations? Or will the future versions return to the idea of Kraang being an individual character?


Personally I quite like this idea that the Utrom are now a doomed race because of this insidious takeover by one of their own.
It mirrors a lot of other scifi Hive/collective minds (such as Star Treks Borg, or Who's Cybermen) who have traditionally focused their story horror on the assimilation of Humans. Its quite interesting to have a glimpse of that kind of fate occurring to another race entirely in the way its developed in the Nick show.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Leonardo watching Space Heroes