Wolverine 3

[Cure]

This movie was dope. I loved it.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess it's possible that in the post-DofP timeline, Wolverine never received the adamantium bullet to his head from Stryker to lose his memories. Though... there wouldn't be much reason for him to need any help from Xavier then.

[TigerClaw]

Saw it today and loved it, It was a nice send off for Wolverine.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess it's possible that in the post-DofP timeline, Wolverine never received the adamantium bullet to his head from Stryker to lose his memories. Though... there wouldn't be much reason for him to need any help from Xavier then.

But wasn't he acting like a complete animal when the gang rescued him in Apocalypse? I feel like there's something in need of recovering there.
Man, I hate that movie, and it's absolutely worse than Origins. I'm just ignoring it, as well as DoFP's stupid-ass ending.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

But wasn't he acting like a complete animal when the gang rescued him in Apocalypse? I feel like there's something in need of recovering there.
Man, I hate that movie, and it's absolutely worse than Origins. I'm just ignoring it, as well as DoFP's stupid-ass ending.

I think Apocalypse has been the worst X-Men movie yet. At least the much-hated X3 had some great Wolverine stuff... like stabbity-stabbing Jean.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

But wasn't he acting like a complete animal when the gang rescued him in Apocalypse? I feel like there's something in need of recovering there.
Man, I hate that movie, and it's absolutely worse than Origins. I'm just ignoring it, as well as DoFP's stupid-ass ending.

Wait... I think it makes sense. Jean Grey touches Wolverine and restores his mind in the 80s in Apocalypse in that one scene, right? That would mean that that version of Wolverine would know who he was, and when the "original" Wolverine's mind rejoined him in 2023, the original Wolverine would remember, too. Right?

Still wouldn't explain why NuWolverine would need Xavier or the X-Men if he already had all the answers.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I think Apocalypse has been the worst X-Men movie yet. At least the much-hated X3 had some great Wolverine stuff... like stabbity-stabbing Jean.

Apocalypse gave us the superior Quicksilver scene, and the sadly edited out Kids at the Mall scene.

Actually, I liked a lot of the slice-of-life stuff in Apocalypse.

[Cure]

The only thing I'm wondering about is why weren't all the kids spanish speakers? But whatevs, I don't like poking holes.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Cure

The only thing I'm wondering about is why weren't all the kids spanish speakers?

Hmm... do we know they weren't?

Now going into the movie I was OK with there being adamantium on X23's claws... but the movie makes it a point to point out she has adamantium in her skeleton too. How exactly is that supposed to work with her growing?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Wait... I think it makes sense. Jean Grey touches Wolverine and restores his mind in the 80s in Apocalypse in that one scene, right? That would mean that that version of Wolverine would know who he was, and when the "original" Wolverine's mind rejoined him in 2023, the original Wolverine would remember, too. Right?

But if his memory were properly restored by Jean at that point, shouldn't he have recognized her and Scott? Logan apparently has memories of X-Men 1 through DoFP, right, as per the ending of DoFP (which is itself confusing and illogical)? I think what Jean did was just calm him down or something... a sane person doesn't run into the cold woods buck naked.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Hmm... do we know they weren't?

That one kid with the electricity seemed like a pretty natural English speaker. He didn't struggle like Laura did.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

But if his memory were properly restored by Jean at that point, shouldn't he have recognized her and Scott?

No. Future Logan's consciousness (and memories, I'd assume) returned with him to the new, better 2023. The Logan Jean restored in Apocalypse wouldn't retain any of that. He'd just have memories of losing control of his body back in the 70s and then waking up being pulled out of a lake.

Logan apparently has memories of X-Men 1 through DoFP, right, as per the ending of DoFP (which is itself confusing and illogical)?

The "real" Logan does, yeah. He remembers everything, all films. But the Young Logan whose body real Logan inhabited doesn't. Not until the "real" Logan re-manifests itself in him in 2023.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Wait wait wait. My understanding was that Logan retained all memories of X1, X2, X3, etc. all throughout the new timeline until the exact moment in time in the old timeline when Kitty sent him back. Then at that moment his memory "reset" to only what he knew in the old timeline for no other reason that the writers couldn't figure out a better way of surprising audiences with the happy ending.
I thought that was why he became a history teacher - because he paid really close attention to what was happening in the world since he was the only one who knew the signs of a Sentinel uprising and could help prevent "history" from repeating itself. I think I understand where you're coming from though - the old timeline memories weren't imprinted on new timeline Logan's mind automatically in 1973.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

Wait wait wait. My understanding was that Logan retained all memories of X1, X2, X3, etc. all throughout the new timeline until the exact moment in time in the old timeline when Kitty sent him back. Then at that moment his memory "reset" to only what he knew in the old timeline for no other reason that the writers couldn't figure out a better way of surprising audiences with the happy ending.

That's not what I got out of it at all.

I thought that was why he became a history teacher - because he paid really close attention to what was happening in the world since he was the only one who knew the signs of a Sentinel uprising and could help prevent "history" from repeating itself.

No way. It was clearly a "secret" known only to Xavier and not even his alternate self. Otherwise, all of the X-Men would have been waiting with balloons and silly string for the day, hour, minute he would come back.

And the description in DofP that time travel, pebbles can change this or that, but the course of a river still basically runs the same. The idea being, most of what we saw happen in X1, X2, and X3 probably happened, but just differently. That couldn't happen if Wolverine was around at every instance to go, "Look, here's what happens in X1, X2, and X3... Magneto is gonna go after this senator, we gotta protect him, etc." which, among other things, would just be silly.

Wolverine became a history teacher because that Wolverine didn't spend 10 years fighting Sentinels. That Wolverine didn't even have to grieve Jean Grey.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No way. It was clearly a "secret" known only to Xavier and not even his alternate self. Otherwise, all of the X-Men would have been waiting with balloons and silly string for the day, hour, minute he would come back.

Well yeah, that's obviously information Logan would care to keep to himself, if he even remembers the exact date he left the original timeline.

And the description in DofP that time travel, pebbles can change this or that, but the course of a river still basically runs the same. The idea being, most of what we saw happen in X1, X2, and X3 probably happened, but just differently. That couldn't happen if Wolverine was around at every instance to go, "Look, here's what happens in X1, X2, and X3... Magneto is gonna go after this senator, we gotta protect him, etc." which, among other things, would just be silly.

Hank suggested that's how time travel works, but Charles then refuted that, and the whole point of the movie was to refute that, sending the "people can change!" message. Furthermore there's a scene (maybe in the Rogue Cut only) where Sunspot and Blink and all those new mutants mention that it's possible that Logan's meddling will prevent any of them from being born. There's a reason why Logan made sure Prof. X knew who Storm, Jean, and Scott were when they were talking on that plane - it's because there's awareness that time isn't immutable.

On the other hand there was a line in "Logan" that threw me off a little, when Wolvie said to Charles something like, "The Statue of Liberty was a long time ago" - a reference to the very first X-movie from 2000. In that regard your understanding makes more sense.

[plastroncafe]

Now going into the movie I was OK with there being adamantium on X23's claws... but the movie makes it a point to point out she has adamantium in her skeleton too. How exactly is that supposed to work with her growing?

When does it make that point?

[Andrew NDB]

The way I figure...

* James "Logan" Howlett makes it to the 80s, then gets the adamantium bullet to the brain from Stryker. Memory is gone.
* Professor X restores bits of it here and there (explaining how he remembers Nagasaki).
* In 2023, he goes back in time to his body in the 70s. Does what he does, then leaves his body in a lake to return to Happy Times 2023.
* His younger self in the 70s wakes up, probably very confused, gets captured by Stryker. Stryker holds all the cards now, he doesn't need to get Wolverine to agree to help him this time around if he just wipes his memory somehow. So he does. Somehow. Probably not an adamantium bullet this time, though.
* In the 80s, the X-Men free Wolverine and Jean Grey restores some/all of his memories from his childhood to the present. This doesn't restore any of the original Wolverine's memories, just the ones Stryker suppressed.
* In Happy Times 2023, the new Wolverine's mind/memories get rejoined by the original's. Now the original Wolverine has all memories... from both timelines. Though it probably would take a little while for all of that to fully register, given his shock and surprise at all.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

When does it make that point?

As I recall, there's a line from Wolverine about "we both have adamantium in our bodies" (which, could possibly mean just the claws that retract into the body, but not the way he said it), the fact that she gets shot all over, even her head, and suffers no broken or shattered bones... and that you can see adamantium all over her skeleton on the charts on the wall in the lab.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The way I figure...
As I recall, there's a line from Wolverine about "we both have adamantium in our bodies" (which, could possibly mean just the claws that retract into the body, but not the way he said it), the fact that she gets shot all over, even her head, and suffers no broken or shattered bones... and that you can see adamantium all over her skeleton on the charts on the wall in the lab.

I totally missed that lab chart! All the more reason to do a close rewatch.
I think her healing factor could account for the rest of it.

I know in the comics only her claws are laced.

[Krutch]

My list...

Logan
X-Men Days of Future Past
X-Men
X2: X-Men United
X-Men: First Class
X3: The Last Stand
Deadpool
X-Men Apocalypse
The Wolverine
X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Kind of hilarious how far apart on the list Mangold's movies are but hey, Logan was freakin' excellent.

[AT-Man]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Hmm... do we know they weren't?

Now going into the movie I was OK with there being adamantium on X23's claws... but the movie makes it a point to point out she has adamantium in her skeleton too. How exactly is that supposed to work with her growing?

I, too, wish they had explained this somehow, but I'll just assume it's some kind organic adamantium in her body and it grows with her.