Official Episode Discussion S5 Ep 04: End Times

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

How do we know this is Tiger Claw's last appearance?

Right here.
https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/851120566585114626

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So Tiger Claw, Fishface and Razhar are never appearing again? That's a shame. I feel like those three weren't given a proper send off at all. Razhar's dead, Fishface is gone on vacation and Tiger Claw just called a truce when he was biggest enemies with the turtles.

I guess it'll be much more satisfying if I see their appearances in the season 4 as their send off, with season 5 just being an epilogue.

Atleast the chances are much better for Bebop and Rocksteady, who will almost surely appear again.

[MCLeo28]

Anyone feel Shinigami has lacked any sense of importance within this show after her 2nd appearance? She's interesting, but is never given an opportunity in the limelight. Hopefully she returns again.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

Anyone feel Shinigami has lacked any sense of importance within this show after her 2nd appearance? She's interesting, but is never given an opportunity in the limelight. Hopefully she returns again.

I think there was footage of her in the season 5 trailer which showed the monster episodes.

[THGhost]

No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by THGhost

No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all.

Fishface's was fine, but Rahzar and Tiger Claw's was not.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I think there was footage of her in the season 5 trailer which showed the monster episodes.

Sounds good then. Hopefully she'll appear with Karai including when the Salamandrians (spelling?) visit Earth.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by THGhost

No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all.

i just pretend their send off was season 4 and season 5 is just an additional cameo from them, much more satisfying that way. Atleast their endings in Requiem and Owari felt more like a send off that could be the end.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

Fishface's was fine, but Rahzar and Tiger Claw's was not.h.

Uh, what? Rahzar is flat out dead. How did he not get the most proper sendoff?

Tiger Claw's was left open, and Fishface is just going back to a life of crime.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Aaaaaand this little gem sums up this entire debate. Sure, one time is a mistake, but come on, this has been more than a couple times by now. The fact that Splinter "departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down to Hell" was exactly my point. Why is he the special snowflake spirit that just happens to come down from the skies if Kavaxas specifically released the ghouls from the underworld? Can Splinter's spirit just transcend worlds whenever it damn well pleases? That cheapens the death, but, hey, this show is an expert at that, so why am I even complaining, right?

Although I definitely agree that saying this Shredder wasn't a threat and was barely in the series at all is a pretty bombastic claim.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Never said he wasn't a threat. just that it FELT like he was hardly in the series at all during the Krang Years, and then kind of jumped center stage.

Maybe Splinter wasn't part of the demon horde. he got sent down as an agent from above to help out?

but yeah, while the proper send off was a nice touch, it DOES cheapen the death.

Why kill him of if he's just going to come back as a ghost?

I'm sort of assuming that both Splinter and Shredder do have some affiliation Japanese Buddistism though maybe not observant in practice.

The Buddhist version of hell is essentially Dante's inferno on steroids and even getting to the first judge is an unpleasant 7 day journey in which the corruption of the mortal world manifests itself as swords that pierce the body and you have to climb a thorn covered mountain that is a manifestation of the greed you held in life. And on top of this there are birds that peck at your eyes and skin.

You have to face four judges who can send you to hell directly if you are deemed wicked enough. Not to mention that there are various other trials between each judge that are not a casual walk in the park.

For example, after the first judge you have a seven day journey across the Sanzu River and three ways you can cross.

If you were good in life you can cross a bridge and get across safely.

If you were okay (did bad things for good reasons) you wade across through a shallow part of the river

And if you were bad you take a swim through snake-filled rapids.

The fifth judge you face is the lord of the underworld himself, King Enma. And he is the one who determines which of the six realms you will go to. In addition to weighing the previous judgments, you have faced to determine your fate. He will also hold up a mirror which will reflect your life back at you and clearly show you all your crimes and transgressions.


So when the Shredder tells Kavaxas" You and I don't belong here demon!" He is saying he is deserving of where he has being sent and no longer belongs in the mortal realm.

Splinter on the other hand. while he isn't a saint is good enough to be accepted into heaven or one of the more peaceful realms.

But placement into heaven or hell isn't immediate there are still two other judges and a few more trials after Enma, but they are more finalizing ones destination.

And since Splinter was taken so suddenly from his children, he felt he should help with stopping the event that was going on and also it gave him a final moment where he could say good-bye to them.

[Toadtrooper]

It feels like Tales is going to just be Ciro's fangirl scrapbook of season ideas being cut down into a few episodes apiece. Not to tell a good story, but to get them onto his resume before production shuts down.

Kavaxas would have been a great season-long story arc. But as five episodes, it's too rushed, too overstuffed, too exposition-dependent, and doesn't add anything significant to the show's lore. Having Hamill voice Kavaxas is the only interesting thing about him, other than perhaps the Hothead toy design cameo.

Ciro shouldn't be patting himself on the back. He took what should be a vibrant, lasting intellectual property and made it tedious AF. Has he ever tried rewatching his own show? Might be the wake-up call he needs.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Uh, what? Rahzar is flat out dead. How did he not get the most proper sendoff?

Tiger Claw's was left open, and Fishface is just going back to a life of crime.

He was used as a pawn who did nothing notable and ended up dying while contributing absolutely nothing to the finale. He was treated as a dog, a state of being that he loathed the most, and died like one. Fishface on the contrary, could at least regain a semblance of his normal, human life and was treated like one even when he still wasn't human.

Tiger Claw's story ended when there were more pages left to be desired and an off-screen truce with little exposition behind it was vacuous writing. There's a reason why people want to see more Tiger Claw and it's because people feel as if his story ended abruptly.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

He was used as a pawn who did nothing notable and ended up dying while contributing absolutely nothing to the finale. He was treated as a dog, a state of being that he loathed the most, and died like one. Fishface on the contrary, could at least regain a semblance of his normal, human life and was treated like one even when he still wasn't human.

Rahzar was already dead. This was just his body possessed by Kavaxas. His character arc ended, that's proper closure. Fishface was left completely open ended.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Rahzar was already dead. This was just his body possessed by Kavaxas. His character arc ended, that's proper closure. Fishface was left completely open ended.

Meh, whatever you say pal.

I certainly do not think Rahzar dying in the ocean while his friends waltzed away laughing as if nothing happened and being treated as a puppy which Bradford despises would be proper closure for his character. Seems rather contemptuous if you ask me.

Fishface's is open-ended, but there is a stark contrast between them. Rahzar died, Fishface didn't. Fisface gets to embrace life as if he were human, Rahzar doesn't. He just died and didn't even get the opportunity to move past just being Shredder's lapdog. In my mind, Fishface having the freedom to make his own choices, live a complacent life as a human, escape Shredder's control, and aid the turtles one time before leaving is proper departure for his character.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

Meh, whatever you say pal.

I certainly do not think Rahzar dying in the ocean while his friends waltzed away laughing as if nothing happened and being treated as a puppy which Bradford despises would be proper closure for his character. Seems rather contemptuous if you ask me.

Dude, the character is DEAD. That's closure for the character. You can't get much more "done" than that.

What do you want? Every character to get some happy sunshine ending? I'm honestly surprised nothing bad happened to Fishface in the end in comparison.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

Meh, whatever you say pal.

In the episode, Kavaxas did call Rahzar and Shredder his undead minions so Rahzar was undead and under Kavaxas control as well.

We thought he was alive because it looked like Kavaxas 'resurrected him' and his body was still in good condition. But it turns out he was undead after all.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Dude, the character is DEAD. That's closure for the character. You can't get much more "done" than that.

What do you want? Every character to get some happy sunshine ending? I'm honestly surprised nothing bad happened to Fishface in the end in comparison.

No I don't, the way it was executed was appalling. All you're telling me is that Rahzar's death is closure which I acknowledged, but it does not discredit my opinion of it being executed egregiously.

Meanwhile, you're telling me Fishface's is bad because it's open-ended even though what is conferred on Fishface (a life of crime) at least invokes some sort of character development and had meaning because it served a purpose for Fishface as a character. I cannot say Rahzar's death was meaningful in the slightest in comparison. Seriously, what was meaningful about Rahzar's death?

[Vicky82]

When Rahzar died in Requiem some people including me thought he wasn't dead because we didn't see his body but then he returned to his undead body by Kavaxas

To me Rahzar last appearance was closure for me because he wasn't alive after all, just undead like Shredder and he fell into the Netherworld so we know he aint returning.

Fishface last appearance was also closure for me because he left the foot clan and gone back to old life as a thief.

To me Tiger Claws last appearance didn't feel closure at all because his truce with the turtles was done off screen and it felt like he was going to return later but it turned out it was his last appearance.

So to me Fishface and Rahzar's last appearance were closures.

If Rahzar wasn't seen again after Requiem, I wouldn't have considered his last appearance as closure because we never saw his dead body after he drowned by Letherhead.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

No I don't, the way it was executed was appalling. All you're telling me is that Rahzar's death is closure which I acknowledged, but it does not discredit my opinion of it being executed egregiously.

LOL, using words like, "appalling" to describe Rahzar's fate is ridiculous. The character died last season. He was briefly revived as an undead minion and then was "dead" once more after he fell into the pit and Kavaxas was gone. That's it. Rahzar didn't need some any final closure when his character was done.

[JH24]

It was an enjoyable episode, although one that might have worked better as a two-parter. The ending was very nice, a bit of a repeat of the season 4 finale, but I love those kind of bonding moments.

I like how they've portrayed Mikey. It feels they've found a balance with his character. He's more likeable than ever. He just feels like himself now. More mature, calmer, but still being his goofy and fun self.

[matteso586]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

Sounds good then. Hopefully she'll appear with Karai including when the Salamandrians (spelling?) visit Earth.

And perhaps Shini's backstory would be revealed.