The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > General Forums > General Discussion > Books, Comics, and Other Literature

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2017, 04:06 PM   #21
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by dl316bh View Post
Didn't like JMS, though I wish a couple of his ideas stuck. The Mark Millar run was okay. Marvel Adventures is not what I was looking for, nor was SLMJ. I never cared about Spider-Girl, honestly.
Of course. I think we talked about this over in PMs. Fair dues if that era wasn't your thing, I still reckon it was a stronger period creatively, you felt like the character was constantly growing and evolving.

Quote:
I like Final Crisis, but I can understand people who couldn't get into it. It was complicated and for some people I imagine hard to follow. For a lot of rank and file readers, they prefer straightforward and DC had pretty much conditioned them that way. Some were just more concerned with what happened with any given character, while what happened to, like, Hawkman or whatever totally wasn't the point. Some people got what Morrison was doing but just didn't like it.
I liked Final Crisis in small pockets here and there, I loved Superman's involvement in it creating that music at the far ends of the universe and working on a way to save Lois from the brink of death. Also loved the use of Tawni Tiger (because of my chidlhood fondness for the old Shazam cartoons)
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 04:11 PM   #22
dl316bh
Hench Mutant
 
dl316bh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Of course. I think we talked about this over in PMs. Fair dues if that era wasn't your thing, I still reckon it was a stronger period creatively, you felt like the character was constantly growing and evolving.
We did. Good conversation. I enjoyed it. I respect that you really liked that era. I just found that what we've got since suited me a lot more, though the Slott era of post-BND has been peaks and valleys for me. Though the peaks are really high and only one valley genuinely annoyed me.

Quote:
I liked Final Crisis in small pockets here and there, I loved Superman's involvement in it creating that music at the far ends of the universe and working on a way to save Lois from the brink of death. Also loved the use of Tawni Tiger (because of my chidlhood fondness for the old Shazam cartoons)
Supermans involvement was a beautiful thing. Morrison is a guy who simply gets that character in a way not everyone does. Not surprising that All Star Superman is what people think of, now, when considering definitive Superman work.
__________________
dl316bh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 09:14 PM   #23
MikeandRaph87
Jedi Master
 
MikeandRaph87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters
Posts: 7,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dl316bh View Post
Didn't like JMS, though I wish a couple of his ideas stuck. The Mark Millar run was okay. Marvel Adventures is not what I was looking for, nor was SLMJ. I never cared about Spider-Girl, honestly.

To be blunt, I've enjoyed more Spider-Man post BND than I ever did pre. Pre, it was mainly Ultimate for me. I loved the hell out of that book for years and only kind of dropped off when BND happened and Ultimate started feeling a bit redundant. Which the switch to Miles helped with, but by the time I tried getting into that, it kind of got lost among the other comics I was reading.


I like Final Crisis, but I can understand people who couldn't get into it. It was complicated and for some people I imagine hard to follow. For a lot of rank and file readers, they prefer straightforward and DC had pretty much conditioned them that way. Some were just more concerned with what happened with any given character, while what happened to, like, Hawkman or whatever totally wasn't the point. Some people got what Morrison was doing but just didn't like it.

Either way, I like it for doing something different with an event, which was something we desperately needed, even at the time.


I've been meaning to. One of these days I'm going to pick up the trades. Doom Patrol's another of his I really appreciate, if only because Morrison seems like the only guy - well, save Way now too, I guess - who understood how to make the team stand out in a universe filled with superheroes. No one really cares about Rita or Mento or whatever enough to carry a book. A team that's supposed to be weird should actually be weird.


Good choice on a Morrison moment, dude.


I mean, I assume MikeandRaph87 knows what Morrison was going for and just wasn't into it, which I can respect. Some of Grants work is not for everyone and while I'm glad Final Crisis happened and was something different with the event model, I was never surprised that ended up being one of his most divisive works. There were people out there like you describe who just straight up didn't get it, though, whom just ended up resenting it for it.


Does... Geoff Johns owe you money or something?
I think well of Morrison obviously and enjoyed his Batman run overall. However, you cannot get into every story a writer does.

Final Crisis did not speak to me. I do not hate it, its just not my cup of tea. I felt it had a cheap ending when Superman just wished everything back to normal with some machine's help. There was also the pointless deaths of Martian Manhunter who came right back after a hit was put on him by a z-lister and Hawkman died only to die again a few months later in Blackest Knight. The whole reincarnation of the New Gods into hip human characters was just weird. Sure, Morrison has this flair for the weird,but that? This being a company-wide crossover big event I do not how much creative freedom Morrison was allowed. Therefore, I do not blame him for my disinterest in the mini-series itself.

Infinite Crisis had a pretty good build up, while yes a money scheme with four minis leading to a fifth one. One Year Later was unnecessary, but the Infinite Crisis was a callback to the Bronze Age. My favorite period is the late 60s' to the mid 80s' so it spoke to me. The story itself was a fun ride that I looked forward to with anticipation. There was one major gripe overall. I am not pleased with how Earth-2 Superman was handled. Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr. had been leaving their prism prison often for six months and he was oblivious. His hands were bleeding when he broke free of it which was cheapened after what his two fellow hibernation mates were up to. Also, dying due to kryptonite exposure after everything. He and Lois having a happy ending while no one else did including Earth-2 Batman (died in 1978 ) was undone. That was my one beef with the story itself. Superboy-Prime and Alexander Jr. going crazy watching events unfold before them while being homesick is fine and is a twist that works. The whole wall punching changing continuity was bullcrap, but it was not tied to the actual story of Infinite Crisis.

I am a fan of Geoff John's Green Lantern work and I did enjoy his Crisis of Conscience arc in the JLA volume. Johns is overrated and pushed too much down reader's throats like Bendis was at Marvel and it makes one polarized. Its like they model what the respective company wants and its sells really well so they feed them key titles and story-lines. The same with Wolfman and Claremont in the 1980s'. They were given too much power because they had sales and had the golden seal of approval.
__________________
Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

Check out the best DC Comics site on the net:
http://new.dcuwiki.net/forums/index.php
Now featuring Ethan Van Sciver!

MikeandRaph87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 10:51 PM   #24
myconius
Abby Normal
 
myconius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: the grave marked "Unknown" right beside Arch Stanton.
Posts: 2,713
i completely agree MikeandRaph87 about not being able to enjoy every singe story a writer produced.
one Morrison story in particular i was incredibly disappointed at was 'Nameless'.
i had such high hopes for it, but it just didn't jive with me. and i'd re-read it a few times hoping something would connect.
too many obscure references forced down the reader's throat over and over. took me right out of the story. but that's only one story of a few that i really didn't like.

as far as Grant otherwise, he's one of my all time favorite comic writers.
he really is responsible for getting me back into collecting comics. (CURSE YOU Morrison!)
he was doing such amazing things with Batman (and then Batman & Robin)
i just think he had too much on his plate at the time of 'The Return of Bruce Wayne'
it began so good, but i feel the end fell flat. at least the end of his run of B&R which he was writing at the same time was excellent.
plus at the same time he was also writing the 'Batman: The Return' one-shot as well as starting the Batman Incorporated series.

from the solicits i really didn't expect to like Batman Inc, but after the first few issues i fell in love with it.
too bad the reboot had to throw it off course. that HAD to have an effect on the remaining issue.
__________________
myconius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 11:53 PM   #25
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
I think well of Morrison obviously and enjoyed his Batman run overall. However, you cannot get into every story a writer does.

Final Crisis did not speak to me. I do not hate it, its just not my cup of tea. I felt it had a cheap ending when Superman just wished everything back to normal with some machine's help. There was also the pointless deaths of Martian Manhunter who came right back after a hit was put on him by a z-lister and Hawkman died only to die again a few months later in Blackest Knight. The whole reincarnation of the New Gods into hip human characters was just weird. Sure, Morrison has this flair for the weird,but that? This being a company-wide crossover big event I do not how much creative freedom Morrison was allowed. Therefore, I do not blame him for my disinterest in the mini-series itself.

Infinite Crisis had a pretty good build up, while yes a money scheme with four minis leading to a fifth one. One Year Later was unnecessary, but the Infinite Crisis was a callback to the Bronze Age. My favorite period is the late 60s' to the mid 80s' so it spoke to me. The story itself was a fun ride that I looked forward to with anticipation. There was one major gripe overall. I am not pleased with how Earth-2 Superman was handled. Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr. had been leaving their prism prison often for six months and he was oblivious. His hands were bleeding when he broke free of it which was cheapened after what his two fellow hibernation mates were up to. Also, dying due to kryptonite exposure after everything. He and Lois having a happy ending while no one else did including Earth-2 Batman (died in 1978 ) was undone. That was my one beef with the story itself. Superboy-Prime and Alexander Jr. going crazy watching events unfold before them while being homesick is fine and is a twist that works. The whole wall punching changing continuity was bullcrap, but it was not tied to the actual story of Infinite Crisis.

I am a fan of Geoff John's Green Lantern work and I did enjoy his Crisis of Conscience arc in the JLA volume. Johns is overrated and pushed too much down reader's throats like Bendis was at Marvel and it makes one polarized. Its like they model what the respective company wants and its sells really well so they feed them key titles and story-lines. The same with Wolfman and Claremont in the 1980s'. They were given too much power because they had sales and had the golden seal of approval.
I apologize to you, sir. You do have some gumption of his body of work.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 12:15 AM   #26
dl316bh
Hench Mutant
 
dl316bh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
I think well of Morrison obviously and enjoyed his Batman run overall. However, you cannot get into every story a writer does.
I figured. That you brought up Animal Man suggested you already knew and liked his work beyond just some of the obvious, so I figured you were in the camp who just couldn't get into Final Crisis because it just didn't get you. Which, as I said, I respect.

So far, I have at least enjoyed everything I've read from him, but I haven't read everything because the guy has a vast body of work over decades. I'm sure there will probably be something of his I read at some point that I'm not wild about, too. It just happens.

Quote:
I am a fan of Geoff John's Green Lantern work and I did enjoy his Crisis of Conscience arc in the JLA volume.
I pick and choose with Geoff Johns. I loved his Teen Titans run pre-OYL and what I've read of his original Superman run was good. But man, the first two volumes of his Justice League pissed me off. I dropped it for a full year before giving it one more chance with Throne of Atlantis, which was such a marked improvement I stuck with it past there.

Quote:
from the solicits i really didn't expect to like Batman Inc, but after the first few issues i fell in love with it.
Oh, man, I was one of the guys who was all in the second it was announced.

Batman goes global, with Batmen around the world, having globetrotting adventures and essentially taking the very concept of the Batmen of All Nations to the logical end point if Batman ever authorized it?

Sold.

If anything, it annoyed the **** out of me that the Batman Inc. concept, or at least of the global Batmen, was just dropped in the New 52 era.

Oh.

Also.

Lord Death Man.
__________________
dl316bh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 12:50 AM   #27
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by dl316bh View Post
If anything, it annoyed the **** out of me that the Batman Inc. concept, or at least of the global Batmen, was just dropped in the New 52 era.
Yeah, like a bad habit. Then we got that prestige format conclusion which was just the last two issues of it they never bothered to print, like 5 months later.

The biggest victims of the New 52 was Justice League International. They'd literally spent a whole year of real time building back up JLI in JL: Generation Lost, and simultaneously with Brightest Day which brought back Max Lord... and then they just poo-pooed away all of it. The best relaunch (not reboot) idea they'd ever had, and just poo-pooed it. Right at the finish line. I was beginning to loathe the year-long weekly stuff ("Trinity" was rough to get through, real rough, and it was even more maddening that right when it was over with, after I'd suffered through a year's worth of buying those comics and when Busiek had Krona becoming basically the life-force of Earth-1... like 3 months later Geoff Johns completely and knowingly ignored it when it was time to make Krona into shrimp dude to prep people for the new WB movie)... both both of those successfully piqued my interest.

Then as a consolation prize in the New 52, we got the JLI series where Guy Gardner is like, "Who are you?" to Ice. pfffffft. F*** off.

Last edited by Andrew NDB; 11-10-2017 at 12:57 AM.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 06:53 PM   #28
myconius
Abby Normal
 
myconius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: the grave marked "Unknown" right beside Arch Stanton.
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by dl316bh View Post
Oh, man, I was one of the guys who was all in the second it was announced.

Batman goes global, with Batmen around the world, having globetrotting adventures and essentially taking the very concept of the Batmen of All Nations to the logical end point if Batman ever authorized it?

Sold.

If anything, it annoyed the **** out of me that the Batman Inc. concept, or at least of the global Batmen, was just dropped in the New 52 era.

Oh.

Also.

Lord Death Man.
i was a bit skeptical of the idea of Batman setting up a franchise of other Batmen around the world. that is until i read the first issue....

-the opening intro with Lord Death Man and Mr. Unknown
-a team-up with Catwoman
-the giant robotic mouse
-the gag on the last page

....i was head over heals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Yeah, like a bad habit. Then we got that prestige format conclusion which was just the last two issues of it they never bothered to print, like 5 months later.
do you mean the Leviathan Strikes double issue, or that doofy Batman Inc Special with a bunch of guest writers?
__________________
myconius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bendis speak, bendys, brian michael bendis, comic books, dc comics, marvel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.