Star Wars Episode 8

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

What makes Rey different is she seems to want to stay in the middle. To embrace both the light and the dark. And I think that's interesting.

Where are you getting her "embracing the dark"? I mean, I'm sure she will, but what did she do in TLJ like that?

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Where are you getting her "embracing the dark"? I mean, I'm sure she will, but what did she do in TLJ like that?

Spoiler:

when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Spoiler:

when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.

Spoiler:

It just struck me as curiosity (after IX comes out, it could be retroactively read that it was her innate Dark Side drawing her there) and to look for answers that Luke wasn't giving her. Plus see about mom and dad. When Luke went into the Dark Side part of the woods in TESB it wasn't really that much different. Luke fought himself, Rey finds a bunch of clones of herself (which is actually pretty interesting). But it wasn't like Luke defying Yoda and going there meant that Luke is going Dark Side.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Spoiler:

when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.

Spoiler:

I just thought she did that because of her need to see who her parents were and she thought she'd find it there. Edit: though she also wants to know what the force is, what is happening to her and Luke wasn't as enthusiastic as she'd hoped

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Spoiler:

It just struck me as curiosity (after IX comes out, it could be retroactively read that it was her innate Dark Side drawing her there) and to look for answers that Luke wasn't giving her. Plus see about mom and dad. When Luke went into the Dark Side part of the woods in TESB it wasn't really that much different. Luke fought himself, Rey finds a bunch of clones of herself (which is actually pretty interesting). But it wasn't like Luke defying Yoda and going there meant that Luke is going Dark Side.

Spoiler:

no no, when I say embracing the dark side I mean acknowledging that it exists and being okay with it. Noticing that it's there but not fearing at the way that Luke did. That's what's going to bring balance to the force.

See you in my mind the Jedi went out of their way to distance themselves from the world. They weren't allowed to love, they were taken away from their families. There's a line in the third season of avatar The Last Airbender where one of the avatars of the past tells Aang that in order to exert great change on the world he has to live in the world. He can't put his spiritual needs above the needs of the world. That's what the Jedi did.

And ultimately I believe that's why they failed.

The prophecy was supposed to be that Luke would bring balance to the force, but I don't think it was through his actions directly, but rather by his ability to influence Ray. He had to go through everything that he went through to make sure that he was the right kind of leader for the one who would actually balance the universe.

Of course this could all be hogwash, but it's the theory I'm working with at the moment.

[sdp]

I think you just watched a different movie, I did not see that at all.

Now if it's true and it were to happen that would be awesome, in fact that's what I already mentioned I thought was going to happen and I squeeled like a fangirl when you had Kylo ask her to get rid of the Jedi/Sith and all of the past that is just baggage at this point.

I just don't see it happening, the ending clearly made Kylo the bad one and Rey the light side Jedi (taking the books and all) so...

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Nor was it ever a "thing" in KotOR or elsewhere in the old EU. Jedis in the New Republic spent plenty of time with their families, and were not sequestered away nearly as much. Han and Leia' s kids all lived with their family until old enough to begin formal Jedi training (ie, build and use a lightsaber). One of the young trainees was even a royal heir on her home world, and spent time in diplomatic lessons and meetings, etc. (Her grandmother's idea- a very controlling grandma who was kind of a b**ch....)

The Old Republic was pretty similar, in fact it was a holocube archive that Luke used to base his teachings off of, and all his students (And later theirs) learned the Jedi traditions from it. Nothing was ever said about not having families or other relationships. That seems to have been a gradual shift that happened during the later part of Yoda' s time, before the Clone Wars but probably within just a few centuries. (Yoda was 900 by the time of RotJ so he might have remembered when that was not the case- but probably didn't care much.)

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Spoiler:

The prophecy was supposed to be that Luke would bring balance to the force,

The prophecy was that Anakin would bring balance to the Force... and he did. Before him, there was hundreds (thousands?) of Light Side users and only two Dark Side users plus whatever the hell Snoke is out there. After him, there's only one Jedi and a single Dark Side user out there. Seemed pretty balanced to me, just not in the way the Jedi Masters hoped.

Sidenote... I don't have any strong feelings about this myself, but what do you guys feel about the comparison of Obi-Wan in Episode IV vs. Luke in Episode VIII? In Episode IV, Obi-Wan has witnessed the almost total annihilation of his fellow Jedi Knights, even younglings, the failure of himself to steer his Padawan from the Dark Side (who ends up murdering untold thousands of people), a Sith Lord taking control of the Republic and the whole galaxy being turned upside down around him. In Episode VIII, when we find him Luke has been dealing with the destruction of his Jedi school and presumably the Jedi he was training there and his failure to steer Kylo from the Dark Side (and do we know for sure if Kylo even actually killed anyone?). He didn't even know about Han yet. Yet it goes like this:

Episode IV...

Leia: "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!"
Obi-Wan: "OK, cool. Let's go."

Episode VIII...

Rey: "Help me, Luke, you're our only hope!"
Luke: "NO! And I'm NEVER LEAVING this island!"

Why is that? It seemed like Obi-Wan should have been in a lower place than Luke, yet he was ready to rush into the fray without question.

[CyberCubed]

To be fair Jedi are not invincible superheroes (as we all know, most of the time we see them killed), so one old man is not going to be able to stop an Empire consisting of millions of soldiers, Star Destroyers, ships, Death Stars, etc.

I mean what can you do? It's like 1 man versus an entire army. Even when the heroes go to help there's obviously no way to take down everyone. As we now know, even the death of Darth Vader and Palpatine after Episode 6 didn't seem to slow down the Empire that much, they just restructured into The New Order and the wars apparently continued for 30 years without break.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Episode 6 didn't seem to slow down the Empire that much, they just restructured into The New Order

Every time you write that, I'm thinking...

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Every time you write that, I'm thinking...



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Goodnature...se-max-1mb.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c7/3e/16/c...hulk-hogan.jpg

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-25-2014/WJ_nkP.gif

God damn, do I love the nWo.

This segment where Vince shows Hogan, Hall and Nash on the Titan Tron (first time being shown on WWF TV after being away in WCW for so many years) still gives me chills.
Starts at 8:26.



Sure, WWE royally neutered their run and bringing back the red and yellow due to fan support might have been too fast of a movie (I didn't care cause I was a huge Hulk Hogan mark) but at least there were cool moments for a bit in 2002.

[Andrew NDB]

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Why is that? It seemed like Obi-Wan should have been in a lower place than Luke, yet he was ready to rush into the fray without question.

I don't really know that it's fair to compare how people deal with trauma on an individual level.

Perhaps Obi Wan felt beholden to Padme, and camped next to his ex-padawan's estranged son out of a sense of duty to his mother? Or maybe he did so because he knew he'd be the only one to either end Luke or raise him correctly if the time came.

But then he got a message from Padme's daughter, via her son.
And he resignedly went along knowing that there's no stopping the Force when it decides to act.

I think that's different than Luke's situation, which is a bit more like Yoda's.

[ProactiveMan]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I don't really know that it's fair to compare how people deal with trauma on an individual level.

Perhaps Obi Wan felt beholden to Padme, and camped next to his ex-padawan's estranged son out of a sense of duty to his mother? Or maybe he did so because he knew he'd be the only one to either end Luke or raise him correctly if the time came.

But then he got a message from Padme's daughter, via her son.
And he resignedly went along knowing that there's no stopping the Force when it decides to act.

I think that's different than Luke's situation, which is a bit more like Yoda's.

Spoiler:

One of the things I liked a lot in Ep.8 is when Yoda chides Luke because he has never really mastered situational awareness. His mind is always in the future, and not enough in the here and now. Obi Wan didn’t have that problem – maybe the opposite. He decided to train Luke because he suddenly had an opportunity to do so. If R2 had made it to Obi Wan without being captured and sold, Obi Wan probably would have left on his own. He tried to give Luke the lightsabre in the past, but Uncle Owen told him the GTFO, and it doesn’t seem like he made any further attempts.

Obi Wan probably didn’t think too hard about the consequences of training Luke, and he didn’t let his past mistakes dissuade him. He just assessed the situation he was in and went with it. When Rey shows up, Luke can only see potential disaster, influenced by his memory of past disasters. He’s not in the moment, and he lets his fear of the future prevent him from engaging, and then shuts himself off.

[CyberCubed]

You know I'm surprised we're only one movie left in this new trilogy and there's no big new romance like Han/Leia or Anakin/Padme in the series. I mean unless you count Finn and the Asian girl...if that goes anywhere.

Rey has no real love interest, besides the tension with Kylo Ren. Finn seems to view Rey as a friend and the Asian girl as a "fangirl." Poe is...Poe.

Kinda surprised. With a new trilogy featuring a female lead I thought for sure we'd get a big new romance/pairing eventually, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You know I'm surprised we're only one movie left in this new trilogy and there's no big new romance like Han/Leia or Anakin/Padme in the series. I mean unless you count Finn and the Asian girl...if that goes anywhere.

Rey has no real love interest, besides the tension with Kylo Ren. Finn seems to view Rey as a friend and the Asian girl as a "fangirl." Poe is...Poe.

That is strange. I would have expected some sort of love story to develop by now. A love story in SW is about as important as all of the other key elements. I mean, it doesn't matter who has the love story... but there kind of needs to be one.

[plastroncafe]

Does there though?
Does there really?

[ProactiveMan]

I don't think it's necessary.

They tried to do something with Finn and Rose. It didn't turn out very well though.

Maybe Phasma and Chewie could get something going and have some 9 foot children.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Does there though?
Does there really?

Does it mane?
Does it blend?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Does there though?
Does there really?

In a legacy, numbered Star Wars trilogy I would venture that yes. Yes, it does. Some kind of romance. Just because romance might not be your cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't an integral part of the regular saga.

Ignoring the ham-fisted but necessary romance of the PT, what would the OT be like with no romance?