"Be patient. It’s going to be okay. We’re being respectful of the franchise.”

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Yes. exactly.

Why would Raph be the leader? No real reason, other than it's a quick way refernce this series, as a talking point.

"Hey, did you see what they did to the latest TMNT? Raph is the leader now!"
"Say what Jim? No way daddy-o? Wait wasn't Donatello the leader with the Blue bandana?"

"No dude, that was...nevermind let me show you."

CLICK

Every change was driven to provoke a response, like a troll.

Is there an incarnation where Raph hasn't chafed under Leo's authority?
Where he wanted to be leader?

Maybe...the original toon?
Any others?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Maybe...the original toon?

Raphael did outright challenge his leadership once in Turtle Trek.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Is there an incarnation where Raph hasn't chafed under Leo's authority?
Where he wanted to be leader?

Maybe...the original toon?
Any others?

Right, or maybe, it's closer to the time that Megan Fox opined to Jimmy Kimmel that Raph was the Leader?

Like I said, it is clearly driven by toy-etic thinking, nothing more, and that's fine, but if that's what you're doing, then the look and feel are VERY important, and so far, it's been a huge misfire.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Right, or maybe, it's closer to the time that Megan Fox opined to Jimmy Kimmel that Raph was the Leader?

Like I said, it is clearly driven by toy-etic thinking, nothing more, and that's fine, but if that's what you're doing, then the look and feel are VERY important, and so far, it's been a huge misfire.

I think Parner's In Kryme has her beat by at least a decade.
(t-u-r-t-l-e power)

"What if this time Leo just decided to step back and watch Raph make a fool of himself for a while. Maybe heckle him the way he's been heckling Leo for all these years?"

Nah dude, can't do that.
We're not allowed to explore new avenues, that's just changing something for the sake of changing it.

We have to stick to this script, and then write new stories....without them actually being new.

It could flop spectacularly, but I still wouldn't see this as a Bad Design.

[Leonardo_thebest]

We're not looking at it from the same angle.
I don't see this as creative license, I see this as creative licensing, and I definitely don't think they're thinking in those terms. Of course, I'd happily be proven wrong.

The design is still ugly, can't reframe.
I do respect the fact that you like it, but that's opinion territory, similar to the ones that hate it.

I'm sure over time, it will become THE defacto version of the turtles, and eventually, Mirage will be painted over and forgotten, while 2012 will soon stand as the new OG.
It is the way of all things. they are not ours anymore.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

We're not looking at it from the same angle.
I don't see this as creative license, I see this as creative licensing, and I definitely don't think they're thinking in those terms. Of course, I'd happily be proven wrong.

The design is still ugly, can't reframe.
I do respect the fact that you like it, but that's opinion territory, similar to the ones that hate it.

I'm sure over time, it will become THE defacto version of the turtles, and eventually, Mirage will be painted over and forgotten, while 2012 will soon stand as the new OG.
It is the way of all things. they are not ours anymore.

I think we are looking at this from the same angle, I'm just way further afield than you are. Every cartoon, movie, and comic that was a tie into a cartoon or a movie is/has been/will always be creative licensing.

Changes for the sake of marketing - which...is really what we should be using instead of "changes for the sake of change. Because that's what people really seem to mean when they lob that. - is one of the few constants this franchise has. I'm used to it by now. It doesn't ruffle my feathers.

I wouldn't respect that I like these character designs, because...well, a) respect me for being a person, not my opinions on things, and b) it's more accurate to say I don't hate these designs, than to say that I like them.

I'm defending the show because I like new things, and we don't get new good things without sometimes enduring bad new things.

The voice cast looks great. The voice director is top notch. If the stories are good, and the performances match, then I'll warm up to the designs.
Also...there's a good chance the design models will evolve with the production should it go on.

That's what happened with Steven Universe and Avatar the Last Airbender.
Heck, even the Simpsons changed style over time.

I'm not placing a value judgement on the designs. Whether or not I like them doesn't make them good or bad. I'd imagine that's something best decided by an animator. Bad Design would make it harder for them to do their jobs.

But yes, they're not ours. They never really were.

[Leonardo_thebest]

So, you don't like the designs, but you want new stuff, so you're suffering the design in the hopes that keeps the brand alive so they make even more new stuff.

Maybe that's not exactly right, but it sounds like what these threads have been about. I guess that's the same thinking as Support Hillary because otherwise, you get Trump, right?

What about, nope, it's not good, do it again? I'm a fan of that. Let's have that.
And I'm just learning about the magic weapons.

See, I get that you want them to try new things because you like new stuff, but we know Bay turtles hurt the brand in a big way. any property that has a massive misfire has difficulty course correcting. If the follow up to a low rated show like 2012, and a terrible film like out of the Shadows is a mess, the brand will sputter and stahl out.

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

Slim to no chance of that. What's one cheap kids TMNT cartoon going to do in the grand scheme of things besides possibly hook a new generation of Little Timmys?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

"What if this time Leo just decided to step back and watch Raph make a fool of himself for a while. Maybe heckle him the way he's been heckling Leo for all these years?"

From the right angle it would be amusing.

And a lost opportunity for 2003 when Leo was away with the Ancient One. Surely someone had to step up while Leo was away and could have been told stories, probably via Mikey, about Raph trying to fill his shoes while he was gone. Commence heckling. I'd just rather see said heckling done in a style that would happen in a show more like that one.