String of suspicious packages addressed to prominent Democrats and CNN

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Leo656

PA:
- Other thread business can stay in other threads. Especially when it has aaaaabsolutely F*ck-all-nothin' to do with what's currently being discussed.

You're the one who brought it up

Originally Posted by Leo656

- I'm well aware that things have shifted economically in the last few decades. People still have opportunities to create their own "better life", rather than demanding it be handed to them.

Umm not really, if they can't afford the chance to get a higher education or any type of housing and they could be bankrupt in terms of medical bills then its hard to use said opportunities when things are stacked against there favors and them "demanding stuff handed to them" is just asking for a fair trade.

Originally Posted by Leo656

They simply don't listen when people try and give them good advice. When I was in high school, a team of counselors spoke to our entire class and said, essentially, "By the time you get out of college, all the money jobs are going to be in pharmaceuticals. All the computer jobs you're excited about are going to be outsourced to India within a few years, but the drug industry is set to boom and it's the only product America still produces for itself. So if you want to be successful, you need to apply yourself in advanced math and chemistry, so you can get a job in the pharmaceutical industry.

You do know jobs are finite right, if everyone is trying to get a job in the pharmaceutical industry it means those jobs are going to become even more rare

Originally Posted by Leo656

If for some reason your skills don't lie in that direction, your next safest bet is to learn a trade like welding. Otherwise, if you pursue virtually any other area of interest, you're probably going to struggle and end up in a lot of debt."Lo and behold, most kids said, "I don't wanna do that. I wanna do computers." Most of those kids wasted their time and money. The pharmacy techs, the lab workers, the steelworkers and auto mechanics... they're all doing just fine. "But I don't wanna do that!" I know, me neither. So I had a sh*t job for a long time until I went to school for a better one. Which still ain't great, but it's better. Had I known then what I know know, I definitely would have found a way to learn chemistry, even if I didn't want to.

1. Like I said before not everyone should be the jobs listed because that just means less potential jobs of that calibur
2. Citation need on "doing just fine" I know a lot of pharmacy techs and auto mechanics who are having trouble paying for money and housing.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Point being, I'm aware that people can't go from the mail room to the penthouse anymore, or get a lifetime job picking up where their father left off. However, many times people ARE given the next best thing to a map to earning a comfortable living, and they screw it up because "I don't wanna do that." So my sympathy only goes so far. A lot of people create their own problems, often by not taking perfectly good advice because it's not what they want to hear.

Where are you getting this idea that people are suffering because they aren't working hard enough, millennials are working harder than Gen X and Baby Boomers and most of the time they aren't given the next best thing since AGAIN, schooling has went up

Originally Posted by Leo656

- I'm HIGHLY suspicious of those projections on health care, because I don't think anyone's truly considered the variables and complications that are unique to this country and don't apply elsewhere. Most actual doctors whose opinions I've read on the subject swear that it would lead to a mass exodus of medical professionals - since it's now gone from a 6-figure job to a "wait for the government to pay you" job - and severe lack of resources spread between an infinite number of new patients. I don't see how it could be anything but a giant clusterf*ck. The system we have isn't perfect, by any means, but I think such a dramatic overhaul could only complicate things further.

1. Look at every country with Universal healthcare and notice they spend much less on it than we do.
2. The people here are professionals who have been factoring in the variables you listed
3. Doctors in Canada are not only getting paid as much as our do but actually rejected pay rise

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43336410
-

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'm always "survival of the fittest" with these things. I'm going to wager that me and my family have "struggled" a fair bit more than most. We've also done well, at times, so I've seen how things work on the Up and Down. Absolutely, Yes, if I - a person born and raised in this country, who was working 6 days a week for many years and was suddenly thrust into a situation I needed help to get out of - can be told, to my face, by those same people who were supposed to help me, "You're not supposed to have these problems," and ALSO say I don't deserve help because I'm white, and then someone who really has NO reason to be here, is technically a criminal, and in NO way deserving of any government assistance or resources, can be trained by those SAME PEOPLE on how to cheat the system, you're goddamn right I'm going to be pissed because that's NOT how this sh*t is supposed to work. People who are from here, working steadily, pay taxes, etc., deserve infinitely more help when they get "stuck" than someone who literally hopped a fence for a free lunch. The system was designed to help people like me, NOT people like them. So to see myself, and others like me, get pushed aside so a bunch of other people can claim those resources as their own - because "C'mooonnn maaaan, be nice!" - is downright infuriating. It's abuse of resources at best, outright theft at worst.

So again because of that one example of a social worker being an asshole you are going to put entire group of people under the bus and again most immigrants are struggling just like you and even worse in cases but you are saying screw them because a social worker was focusing their attention on the immigrant instead of you.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Exactly WHO told any of these people to have kids they couldn't afford to raise? And why is that MY problem? Listen, if somebody says, "So, my plan for a 'Better Life' is to have kids too young, while earning a migrant worker's wage, then run screaming over to the closest, richest country I can find begging for handouts," that person makes horrible life choices and they really don't deserve anything. "My family!" Money first, family second. You don't start the f*cking family until you can pay for it, numbnuts. I mean, sh*t, it's just as big a problem here, but that goes back to the larger point. We already have TOO MANY freeloaders and welfare cases living here, so it really wouldn't do us any good to just go ahead and squeeze in a few thousand more.

If you want to complain about freeloaders complain about how we spend billions if not trillions are the military industry complex and complain about bailouts for corporations and wall street. Also why should raising a kid be a mistake, we need a next generation of people to support the country and while I'm not saying everyone should have babies regardless of what they say I also don't think we should have people in situations they can't escape for having kids and we should't be punishing kids either. Like I said the cost of living has gone up and so has the cost of raising a child so why should we make people's live miserable.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Aaaaaaaaand a lot of it could all be avoided if people weren't generally stupid. People sure ask me to care an awful lot about other people's self-inflicted problems. They did nothing to create their "better life", but they insist someone hand it over to them. Nah. Make better choices, own your mistakes, take the rest from there. Nobody owes anybody a living. Sh*t's laughable. Part of the impotent rage coming from the under-30 crowd is that they completely expect life to work in ways that it doesn't, can't, and never will.

How can people create a "Better Life" when so much is stacked against them, you can't create something from nothing and you certainly can't improve when everything is not in your favor. Also I love how you think people under 30 are expecting life to work out in unrealistic ways when it wasn't too long a person without an education could support a family of two. You call people being bankrupt over medical bills, having pay for increased housing and college tuition, and working more hours for less pay impotent rage then I bet you would be calling factory workers from the 1930s crybabies.

[Leo656]

- I have no idea what you mean, but I definitely made no reference to That Thread in This Thread. You brought up the other thread as a way to play some kind of "Gotcha" game with me. That's against the rules, so don't do it.

- Hearing a lot about "stacked decks", which again, doesn't concern me. I've known too many people who personally went from Zero-To-Hero for me to have doubts about the merits of overcoming adversity on the way to a better life. I've seen it happen. "Sounds really hard." Well yeah, no sh*t. That's why life has Winners and Losers.

- Your "job scarcity" hypothesis assumes that every single person who was told, "Get a job doing X" actually went ahead and did so, when logically, it's implicitly understood that most of them wouldn't. Because again, people hate taking good advice. The fundamental point of, "If you want to do well, this is what you SHOULD do" remains valid. Obviously there are variables that will affect the outcome, but on the whole, people who become steelworkers earn more over a lifetime than people who major in Sociology.

- Nobody I personally knew who went to vocational school is struggling, and most are thriving. I live in a part of the country where Big Pharma is a juggernaut. I can't speak to what's going on elsewhere. Again, not my immediate concern, as it doesn't affect me directly.

- The danger when anyone speaks anecdotally is, some person is going to say, "OHHHH so it's all about YOU...." as a retort. No, it's not. My example was a perfect and clear illustrative example of how the system doesn't work the way it's supposed to, and we prioritize "need" based on sympathy rather than merit. Every single illegal immigrant should be at the very BACK of the line for any government-provided services, behind every single U.S. Citizen, because they are NOT citizens and are thus stealing from the government. It's not at all complicated, and I don't care what their sob story is. You feed the people in your own house before you start feeding the stray cats outside. Anything else is absurd.

I mean, those same people also told my sister that she and her two kids "could just sleep in a car for a few months" rather than help her get into a place, and this was after her kids' Dad repeatedly beat her. Again, "You're white, Do Better." And again, the people living in her building who DIDN'T get evicted? Not legal, living eight-to-a-unit. People look the other way on THAT sh*t. Don't talk to me about a "stacked f*cking deck", because it seems that you have no idea how things really are. I'm GLAD you haven't had to deal with it, believe me. But trust me when I say, you don't know.

Again, I'm sorry that the two best examples of how sh*tty the system is, and how completely slanted it is, happen to involve me and/or members of my immediate family. The fact that you have a problem with what I believe, or even with me as a person shouldn't invalidate that these things happened, they continue to happen to other people who deserve better, and that they really shouldn't be allowed to happen. A wandering band of moochers gets to trade Sad Tales for room & board, while so many veterans who've served overseas get to sleep on a street corner. Nothing about that is right.

If they're so dissatisfied, let them simply go back to their country, start a revolution, and Be The Change. They won't, because trading on sympathy requires infinitely less effort, and we reward them for that.

- Maintaining a potent military is infinitely more important than handing out money to people who don't want to earn it. Most of our current technology was initially developed through various military research, for one thing.

- Who creates these "inescapable situations"? I'm genuinely curious. All problem have solutions; it's just that very often, that solution is painful and at complete odds with what we want. But, that's called Life. "I really don't like being caught in this bear trap, but I REALLY don't want to lose my hand getting out." Well, someone has some thinking to do, then. One of two things is going to happen, both directly involving how acceptable the situation is to the person in it. They will NOT change the situation by repeatedly calling it "unfair"; that can be said for certain.

ALL situations are "escapable"; sometimes, you have to hack through bone. That's Life.

- You'll have an impossible time convincing me, ever, that anyone, anywhere, either Needs or Deserves children. One look at the world should be more than enough to convince anyone that dumping more mouths into the zoo is irresponsible, reckless, and selfish. Repeat: I find having kids to be a supremely selfish decision and most of those people would do better for everyone by adopting a pet from a shelter. Having kids ruins multiple lives over several generations. Nobody should do it. Especially anybody without a 6-figure income and a stable home... which is what is scientifically proven fundamentally necessary to actually raise a kid to not be a complete failure. And even then, it's 60/40.

- Well, we're not quite working people literally to death in the coal mines at the moment, so until we are, there's little need for false equivalence.
--------------

Anyway, I think "We agree on nothing" is probably a good place to leave it. Which is fine. I've explained my position, you've done yours, and I promise that neither of us is going to budge. I'm sorry that you don't seem to believe in the idea that ultimately You and Only You are responsible for your life, but I promise you it's true. The whole "stacked deck" thing is too much of a victim mentality for me to buy into. If you really buy that kind of thinking, you'll definitely have something to point fingers at whenever you don't get your way, but you ultimately won't be very successful in life, because life doesn't ultimately work that way. Redistribution of wealth doesn't work. Rewarding people for failure or bad choices doesn't work. Taking your dissatisfaction with your situation and channeling it into something productive that can ultimately improve your life, however, DOES work. It's just infinitely, infinitely harder than the "stacked deck" alternative.

Good luck to you, sir. May the forces of Evil become confused on the way to your house.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

You're desperate for him to be a white guy. I guess it's a shame he isn't white with blonde hair... If only he looked like the Bernie bro that shot at the Republican congressmen. But keep pretending this is something exclusive to the right.

I'm not desperate about anything, don't be ridiculous. He's exactly as expected, a Trump supporter.

Him allegedly not being a member of the tribe he claims to be is just funny.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I'm not desperate about anything, don't be ridiculous. He's exactly as expected, a Trump supporter.

Him allegedly not being a member of the tribe he claims to be is just funny.

So... the guy that shot up the baseball field last year and the guy that sent the ricin to the republicans is also exactly as expected? A hillary/bernie supporter? You realize your ideological lenses are showing, right? Don't you have some CNN to watch?

I'm surprised you haven't labelled me a Russian bot.


Oh, and Papagreg, you have no idea what you're talking about. There are SO MANY financial institutions that are already in place above and beyond the federal government that are there to help Latinos. Don't tell me, A LATINO, that you know better than me. You don't. There are also a ton (figuratively) of loans and benefits for college that help latinos. I used them. I BARELY paid out of pocket for college. That socitial stack ******** you're using to justify your ideology is wrong on so many levels. These people at the southern border are invaders and economic migrants. That's it.

[IndigoErth]

Typical...? No, since the vast majority, on either side, would never do such a thing. However, the republican/conservative side really needs to consider making a concerted effort, most of all Trump himself, to strongly start condemning the disturbing amount of white supremacists, etc who seem to feel they have found a home on that side. They should be at home with NO side. This guy supposedly, according to his family's lawyer, "found a father in Trump." And according to an employer was definitely a white supremacist. (Seems the native thing was fake, his parents are supposedly Filipino and Italian.)

If the man is as mentally ill as some are saying then that is sad, no one asks for that, but the kind of rhetoric and language Trump is using all the time is far too provoking for people like this who become obsessed with his negative message and feel they are at home siding with him against all the great "evils" Trump goes on about all the time. It's just going to drive people like this further into illness. (Just like that incel 'community,' and similar stuff does.) And Trump, unfortunately, is just going to keep right on doing it because he has zero self awareness and refuses to even think about it.

How soon does another of these guys come out of the woodwork?

[Leo656]

It would be nice if he did that, but he can't for the exact same reason Democrats won't crack down on illegals: You can't attack a big chunk of your support base and expect to stay in power.

Remember: Red or Blue, it's NOT about making the country or the world a better place; it's about power and control. You establish power by determining which group of rubes are easiest to manipulate. You maintain power by continuing to manipulate those people. You LOSE power by telling those people, "What you're doing is wrong, please f*ck off."

Consider how fast the Kennedys started disappearing once they started making noise about "organized crime", after the mob got them into office in the first place. You don't sh*t where you eat.

I agree, it would be great if Trump took a stand against his more ridiculous supporters, but no politician would ever slit their own throat like that. I wouldn't expect any of them to. That would require integrity, which is the first thing they surgically remove from you once you decide to enter politics.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

So... the guy that shot up the baseball field last year and the guy that sent the ricin to the republicans is also exactly as expected? A hillary/bernie supporter?

ah, whataboutism.

the baseball shooter have his own thread, pretty certain he's been discussed before.

the ricin mailer, hmm. Is it "ricin to the republicans" or to people working in the government, like the CIA director, FBI chief, Secretary of the Air Force, Defense Secretary and President.

Didn't he also send threating letters to the Air Force last year, and threaten to kill Obama when he was President back in 2015?

And he has a criminal history with domestic abuse, seems to be it's not all that "evil liberal attacking the poor republicans", but you do seem to loooove bring this guy up.

Originally Posted by BartAllen

You realize your ideological lenses are showing, right?

And?

Originally Posted by BartAllen

Don't you have some CNN to watch?

....lol, wat?

Don't you have some NRK to watch?

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

And according to an employer was definitely a white supremacist. (Seems the native thing was fake, his parents are supposedly Filipino and Italian.)

That's what I read on a reddit when I was looking for that close-up of the van, that he was part Italian and Filipino and not Native. There where no links or source to it, but it's pretty funny that that seems to be the case.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was eating ice cream with my wife and kids in a shop yesterday and heard the news. So, legit rightwing nutjob, instead of leftwing conspiracy. And the bombs were legit.

Well, assholes gonna asshole. One down, millions more to go!

And this thread is glorious.

Also, who the hell doesn't know what firewater is? Watch a damn John Wayne movie.

[Candy Kappa]

Maybe that Nazi that just shot up that synagogue and killed at least 8 people will be a crazy liberal Bernie bro, maybe...

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Maybe that Nazi that just shot up that synagogue and killed at least 8 people will be a crazy liberal Bernie bro, maybe...

nope supposedly this guy has no party affiliation . he is an Anti-Semitic conspiracy theory loving dude. Also the guy was white too.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/rober...ican-democrat/

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

ah, whataboutism.

When you can't refute deflect, it's a solid tactic.

the baseball shooter have his own thread, pretty certain he's been discussed before.

the ricin mailer, hmm. Is it "ricin to the republicans" or to people working in the government, like the CIA director, FBI chief, Secretary of the Air Force, Defense Secretary and President.

Didn't he also send threating letters to the Air Force last year, and threaten to kill Obama when he was President back in 2015?

And he has a criminal history with domestic abuse, seems to be it's not all that "evil liberal attacking the poor republicans", but you do seem to loooove bring this guy up.



And?


....lol, wat?

Don't you have some NRK to watch?



That's what I read on a reddit when I was looking for that close-up of the van, that he was part Italian and Filipino and not Native. There where no links or source to it, but it's pretty funny that that seems to be the case.

When I say your lenses are showing what I mean is you allow you bias to overwhelm your common sense. You dismiss the bad things the people who carry your banner do and focus on the things the other team does. Each side has its weirdos. If you were truly concerned you would be just as outraged about the shootings last year, or the ricin attacks. You're not. You're only interested in this debate because you think it gives you moral superiority. It doesn't. You're fake.

Again, both sides has its bad apples. These recent attacks are disgusting, but they don't speak about anyone other than the person that has committed them. Just as the guy who shot at the Republican congressmen last year spoke only of him.

The people that were targeted in the ricin attack were absolutely targeted because of their political affiliation. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

This guy is no more a statement about Trump than the shooter that shot at the republicans is a statement about the democrats. Crazy people do crazy things. This situation is just another example in a long line of batshit crazy.

[Leo656]

You make a really interesting point. This morning at the gym, one of my regulars, an older Jewish fella, asked me if I'd heard the news about the synagogue shooting. After agreeing it was horrible, he rolled his eyes and said, "And of course, they wanna make it all political. 'Whose side is he on, what was he trying to accomplish'... he was a f*cking nut! Listen, I'm about twice your age, maybe, but I remember that until recently, whenever things like this happened, it was because the guy was a nut and that was that. Now everything's a 'political statement'. I mean, does it really matter who the guy votes for? He was a nut who hated Jews, simple!" Then we went on about how so very often, when these things happen, the perpetrator had a history of lunatic behavior and an open hateful streak, which was dismissed by everyone until it was too late.

I'm a firm believer in the "Some people are just rotten" theory. They don't do bad things because of their political beliefs or whatever, that's an excuse they use to deflect blame from themselves. They do these things because they're Bad People, NOT "misled" or "misguided" ones. It takes a special kind of stupid to think that acting out with a gun or a bomb package is going to make things better for the disenfranchised. They weren't led astray by the politicians they identify with; they were crazy to start with and floated towards people who said what they wanted to hear, like everyone does. Difference being, most people aren't crazy.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You make a really interesting point. This morning at the gym, one of my regulars, an older Jewish fella, asked me if I'd heard the news about the synagogue shooting. After agreeing it was horrible, he rolled his eyes and said, "And of course, they wanna make it all political. 'Whose side is he on, what was he trying to accomplish'... he was a f*cking nut! Listen, I'm about twice your age, maybe, but I remember that until recently, whenever things like this happened, it was because the guy was a nut and that was that. Now everything's a 'political statement'. I mean, does it really matter who the guy votes for? He was a nut who hated Jews, simple!" Then we went on about how so very often, when these things happen, the perpetrator had a history of lunatic behavior and an open hateful streak, which was dismissed by everyone until it was too late.

I'm a firm believer in the "Some people are just rotten" theory. They don't do bad things because of their political beliefs or whatever, that's an excuse they use to deflect blame from themselves. They do these things because they're Bad People, NOT "misled" or "misguided" ones. It takes a special kind of stupid to think that acting out with a gun or a bomb package is going to make things better for the disenfranchised. They weren't led astray by the politicians they identify with; they were crazy to start with and floated towards people who said what they wanted to hear, like everyone does. Difference being, most people aren't crazy.

The guy has been a racist piece of **** for years. He's been arrested for doing racist garbage too -- Long before Trump took office.

[Leo656]

But... that's not as important as whose bumper sticker he displays. C'mon, guy.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You make a really interesting point. This morning at the gym, one of my regulars, an older Jewish fella, asked me if I'd heard the news about the synagogue shooting. After agreeing it was horrible, he rolled his eyes and said, "And of course, they wanna make it all political. 'Whose side is he on, what was he trying to accomplish'... he was a f*cking nut! Listen, I'm about twice your age, maybe, but I remember that until recently, whenever things like this happened, it was because the guy was a nut and that was that. Now everything's a 'political statement'. I mean, does it really matter who the guy votes for? He was a nut who hated Jews, simple!" Then we went on about how so very often, when these things happen, the perpetrator had a history of lunatic behavior and an open hateful streak, which was dismissed by everyone until it was too late.

I'm a firm believer in the "Some people are just rotten" theory. They don't do bad things because of their political beliefs or whatever, that's an excuse they use to deflect blame from themselves. They do these things because they're Bad People, NOT "misled" or "misguided" ones. It takes a special kind of stupid to think that acting out with a gun or a bomb package is going to make things better for the disenfranchised. They weren't led astray by the politicians they identify with; they were crazy to start with and floated towards people who said what they wanted to hear, like everyone does. Difference being, most people aren't crazy.

Well yeah, obviously the guy was just a lunatic, but politicians are a bunch of snakes so ofc they'll twist it in order to gain votes.

[Leo656]

So do their followers, though. You always hear, "Just like a _____!" when these things happen.

Being soundly Pro-Whomever doesn't make you crazy; these kinds of people are crazy FIRST, they form a political ideology later.

But then... modern thinking is, "Nobody is Crazy, just Misguided," so obviously whatever talk radio they prefer is WHY they do these things.

Me, I'm a big fan of Personal Responsibility. You pick up a gun, you send a Funny package in the mail, YOU'RE responsible. But that's an idea that's going out of fashion.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Leo656

- That's against the rules, so don't do it.

Against who's rules, also I don't take orders from you.

Originally Posted by Leo656

- Hearing a lot about "stacked decks", which again, doesn't concern me. I've known too many people who personally went from Zero-To-Hero for me to have doubts about the merits of overcoming adversity on the way to a better life.

For every Zero-To-Hero stories there are a thousand more about people staying in their social situation and some that have them downgrade. Also your anecdotal evidence doesn't really debunk that its harder to not only make a living but climb up social ladders in the last 50 years.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Your "job scarcity" hypothesis assumes that every single person who was told, "Get a job doing X" actually went ahead and did so, when logically, it's implicitly understood that most of them wouldn't. Because again, people hate taking good advice.

So let me get this straight if people do follow your advice then job scarcity, if they don't then they can't support themselves. That sounds like a lose/lose situation, do you know the concept of a "good advice" is. Also most college students don't get useless degrees like sociology
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...seless-majors/
Also vocational schools also have their downsides too for example most of them aren't adaptable and get lost over time.
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...cation/529161/

Originally Posted by Leo656

Nobody I personally knew who went to vocational school is struggling, and most are thriving. I live in a part of the country where Big Pharma is a juggernaut. I can't speak to what's going on elsewhere. Again, not my immediate concern, as it doesn't affect me directly.

I wouldn't call earning less than 40 grand a year to be thriving especially again with higher prices in housing and medical bills.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I live in a part of the country where Big Pharma is a juggernaut. I can't speak to what's going on elsewhere. .

So why do you act like you do, whenever I bring up stuff that effects everyone in the country and you use anecdotal evidence in order to try to debunk my claims or underwhelm it by saying "Well I know people who are doing just fine" without any sense of nuance.

Originally Posted by Leo656

The danger when anyone speaks anecdotally is, some person is going to say, "OHHHH so it's all about YOU...." as a retort. No, it's not. My example was a perfect and clear illustrative example of how the system doesn't work the way it's supposed to, and we prioritize "need" based on sympathy rather than merit.

Again one person doesn't really reflect the whole system.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Snip

You say that we should't listen to illegal immigrants sob story but you give me a sob story to show how bad the system is. Also I don't need to experience what ever you experience to see how badly the decked is stacked I evidence and citations, here are some if you want to learn something.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...d-for-decades/
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/06/us-h...ters-poll.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-...8-to-2018.html
https://health.usnews.com/health-car...e-than-illness

Originally Posted by Leo656

Again, I'm sorry that the two best examples of how sh*tty the system is, and how completely slanted it is, happen to involve me and/or members of my immediate family. The fact that you have a problem with what I believe, or even with me as a person shouldn't invalidate that these things happened, they continue to happen to other people who deserve better, and that they really shouldn't be allowed to happen. A wandering band of moochers gets to trade Sad Tales for room & board, while so many veterans who've served overseas get to sleep on a street corner. Nothing about that is right.

There are Mexican kids who get separated from their parents for wanting a better life yet you call them moochers and again you aren't the one to criticize people listening to "Sad Tales" when you have given me nothing but "Sad Tales" also if you are honestly sad about the veterans getting treated like crap you would blame the systems at be that spend money taking care of them instead of us getting into pointless wars and buying stuff they nobody needs or just wants to feed the military industry complex.

Originally Posted by Leo656

If they're so dissatisfied, let them simply go back to their country, start a revolution, and Be The Change. They won't, because trading on sympathy requires infinitely less effort, and we reward them for that.

How are they going to start a revolution with nothing, you do remember that America is a country with a huge history of immigrants wanting a better life right.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Maintaining a potent military is infinitely more important than handing out money to people who don't want to earn it. Most of our current technology was initially developed through various military research, for one thing.

Except we barely spend it on research most of it is spent on tanks and jets we barely use. Don't believe me look at how China is succeeding in making a railgun. Keep in mind China only has a fraction of the military budget we have.
https://taskandpurpose.com/china-ele...un-deployment/

Originally Posted by Leo656

Who creates these "inescapable situations"? I'm genuinely curious. All problem have solutions; it's just that very often, that solution is painful and at complete odds with what we want. But, that's called Life. "I really don't like being caught in this bear trap, but I REALLY don't want to lose my hand getting out." Well, someone has some thinking to do, then. One of two things is going to happen, both directly involving how acceptable the situation is to the person in it. They will NOT change the situation by repeatedly calling it "unfair"; that can be said for certain.ALL situations are "escapable"; sometimes, you have to hack through bone. That's Life.

To answer your bear trap analogy you take the third option and push the lever that frees your leg and go to the doctor. You don't have to bullhead every situation and sometimes the easier path is the better one.

Originally Posted by Leo656

You'll have an impossible time convincing me, ever, that anyone, anywhere, either Needs or Deserves children. One look at the world should be more than enough to convince anyone that dumping more mouths into the zoo is irresponsible, reckless, and selfish. Repeat: I find having kids to be a supremely selfish decision and most of those people would do better for everyone by adopting a pet from a shelter. Having kids ruins multiple lives over several generations. Nobody should do it. Especially anybody without a 6-figure income and a stable home... which is what is scientifically proven fundamentally necessary to actually raise a kid to not be a complete failure. And even then, it's 60/40.

Okay you do know the human race needs to continue right, Japan right now is following your example and their work population is aging more and their economy is in shambles. Its kinda funny I actually hate it when people tell others that they should have kids but you are on the opposite of the spectrum and I find you equally as wrong.

Originally Posted by Leo656

- Well, we're not quite working people literally to death in the coal mines at the moment, so until we are, there's little need for false equivalence.

No but people are avoiding hospitals and killing themselves over student debt, so not that much a false equivalence.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Anyway, I think "We agree on nothing" is probably a good place to leave it. Which is fine. I've explained my position, you've done yours, and I promise that neither of us is going to budge. I'm sorry that you don't seem to believe in the idea that ultimately You and Only You are responsible for your life, but I promise you it's true.

You Promise, I have given you evidence and citation and all of you given me is a "Promise", promises mean jack my friend.

Originally Posted by Leo656

The whole "stacked deck" thing is too much of a victim mentality for me to buy into. If you really buy that kind of thinking, you'll definitely have something to point fingers at whenever you don't get your way, but you ultimately won't be very successful in life, because life doesn't ultimately work that way. Redistribution of wealth doesn't work. Rewarding people for failure or bad choices doesn't work.

Look at literally every developed country in the world and see how wrong you are.
https://www.investopedia.com/article...ge-tuition.asp
https://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/...hcare-by-date/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/...uality-of-life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by _income_equality

TLDR Work smarter not harder, instead of telling people "You should work harder" how about make it easier for them to learn a new skill or trade and support themselves. There is nothing wrong with fixing the system to benefit the people

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So do their followers, though. You always hear, "Just like a _____!" when these things happen.

Being soundly Pro-Whomever doesn't make you crazy; these kinds of people are crazy FIRST, they form a political ideology later.

But then... modern thinking is, "Nobody is Crazy, just Misguided," so obviously whatever talk radio they prefer is WHY they do these things.

Me, I'm a big fan of Personal Responsibility. You pick up a gun, you send a Funny package in the mail, YOU'RE responsible. But that's an idea that's going out of fashion.

When the last school shooting happen you crapped on an entire generation of young people just because of what two people did, so why didn't they get the "Personal Responsibility worldview. Seems like your the one who is helping making said concept out of fashioned.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So do their followers, though. You always hear, "Just like a _____!" when these things happen.

Being soundly Pro-Whomever doesn't make you crazy; these kinds of people are crazy FIRST, they form a political ideology later.

But then... modern thinking is, "Nobody is Crazy, just Misguided," so obviously whatever talk radio they prefer is WHY they do these things.

Me, I'm a big fan of Personal Responsibility. You pick up a gun, you send a Funny package in the mail, YOU'RE responsible. But that's an idea that's going out of fashion.

Yeah, I hear you.

Many people are loyal to political parties as if they were sports teams.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Okay you do know the human race needs to continue right

No, I don't know that and am still waiting to be convinced. You, personally, aren't doing a very good job.

Look buddy, it's clear we disagree on a lot of things, and I already said, that's where we ought'a leave it. For one thing, the circle jerk with you is giving me a headache, on account of your extreme run-on sentences, lack of proper punctuation, grammar, etc., and further, you've already made your point: The government needs to give everyone everything they ask for. To which I say, "No, they don't, you're rooting for the creation of a permanent underclass of victims and welfare recipients." If you think that's great, good for you. You'll most likely think otherwise with a few years of life experience.

"My anecdotes (cited or personal) are more meaningful than your anecdotes." That's literally your entire argument. Sorry guy. Weak.

I can already see this is going to descend into personal attacks if it continues, which is why I strongly suggested that we simply agree to disagree. For one thing, I make it a point not to get into lengthy philosophical debates with people lacking in life experience, because it's exhausting when people who haven't been through their share yet start talking about how things "Ought to be."

You're NOT going to persuade me to adopt your way of thinking, young man. And it's clear that it works the same in reverse. Which is why I suggested we avoid each other. You're apparently incapable of that, so I'm forewarning you, it's not going to be good if it continues. Everything's already been said. Move along.

It's like your entire thing is trying to prove I'm a cold, heartless person who thinks people should only care about themselves. Brother, you don't have to "prove" that, I'll openly GIVE you that, for free. I don't know what you think you're actually going to accomplish, otherwise. Just arguing for the sake of it? Not interested.
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The kids who did the shootings are responsible for what they did, AND young people are maladjusted pussies who can't handle even the slightest disappointment. Two things can be true at once.

Since you didn't take the hint, I retract my earlier well-wishes; not only do I hope the Forces of Evil maintain clarity on the way to your house, I also hope their GPS shows them the fastest route without tolls.