Another movie from Platinum Dunes in the works - new writer hired

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I think it's more nebulous than that.

Mirage itself managed to capture a semi-wide range of tones in just the first volume. I imagine we are mostly just speaking to the Laird/Eastman - penned issues though, and when it comes to those, I think it captures more than half of what was conveyed in the books.

From the story beats of Saki/Splinter's origin (nobody misses Nagi), Casey's introduction, the final rooftop battle, to the character work on Raphael, and the dark, grainy, DIY aesthetic that I mentioned above, which was a great asset in relating the movie back to those original black and white issues.

Obviously it's not a straight outline of those first twelve-issues (which would be boring - please creators, have some creative liberty when switching storytelling mediums), but you really can't ask for much more...I mean, except for more. We can't really expect him to encompass all that Mirage fully represents in one film.

Had the first film had sequels by Steve Baron, I imagine we could have seen more Mirage elements thrown into the stew.

I mean, for the 90 minutes it has available, what 60% of crucial elements is it missing from Mirage? I still agree that it's not a perfect Mirage adaption, but unless you're just being facetious, your argument of it only containing "40%" of Mirage - DNA (this is a really tricky thing to accurately measure) is sort of dumbfounding to me.

If using these inadequate measurements, I'd say the film is at least 70% Mirage-fueled. Probably more.

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh.

True. None of those are lifted straight from Mirage.

But they hardly defy Mirage to a great extent. I prefer red bandanas, but they make just as little sense as the colored ones do. It doesn't necessarily destroy the spirit of Mirage, in my eyes.

And yes, the Penningtons sort of stick out, but they never bothered me. If the focus of the story had been on Danny, sure, but we weren't shortchanged when it came to the turtles. They held most of the screentime. I thought it was actually interesting seeing someone at the ground floor of Shredder's operation. His Foot-Ninja warehouse was also grungy as hell, which fit in with the Mirage look/feel.

New elements, sure, but they don't stand in the way of the film feeling like a Mirage adaption. At least to me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

True. None of those are lifted straight from Mirage.

But they hardly defy Mirage to a great extent. I prefer red bandanas, but they make just as little sense as the colored ones do. It doesn't necessarily destroy the spirit of Mirage, in my eyes.

And yes, the Penningtons sort of stick out, but they never bothered me. If the focus of the story had been on Danny, sure, but we weren't shortchanged when it came to the turtles. They held most of the screentime. I thought it was actually interesting seeing someone at the ground floor of Shredder's operation. His Foot-Ninja warehouse was also grungy as hell, which fit in with the Mirage look/feel.

New elements, sure, but they don't stand in the way of the film feeling like a Mirage adaption. At least to me.

Oh, I guess we could argue Shredder. Man, that was a watered-down Shredder.

From killing and assassinations and drug running and gun running... to stealing TVs. Oh, how the mighty were adapted for a children's movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh.

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins... that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins... that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

Oh yeah, the slapstick fights...

The final fight had great choreography for the moves, but Shredder just flexing and posing while the Turtles talk. I forgot about that, that was moronic.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins.. that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

I'd say this is your strongest point against the film being faithful to Mirage. Them not being raised with the sole purpose of assassinating Saki does put a somewhat different spin on the characters.

That said, I'm still not convinced the film isn't, overall, quite faithful to the Mirage books. There's just too much lifted straight from the books, along with a general feel and tone that harkens back to Mirage.

Obviously we can agree to disagree at this point.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I'd say this is your strongest point against the film being faithful to Mirage. Them not being raised with the sole purpose of assassinating Saki does put a somewhat different spin on the characters.

That said, I'm still not convinced the film isn't, overall, quite faithful to the Mirage books. There's just too much lifted straight from the books, along with a general feel and tone that harkens back to Mirage.

Obviously we can agree to disagree at this point.

Well mirage itself was far from perfect but it's okay.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Yeah, doesn't seem uncommon to have more than one working together. The last two films had the two guys, and the film that article is about has hired three.



Not TMNT related, from Dec 2017:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-vader-1063482

Trigger warning (must I really say this?) on the use of "feminist" and that angle of the article for those at risk of meltdowns over such things. THAT ASIDE, reading the interview she was a part of, I'm kind of liking her attitude already. Will be curious to see what she can bring to a script for our guys. (And April too.)

Spoiler:

I guess we missed this one from the 15th that does mention her.
http://sciencefiction.com/2019/01/15...s-reboot-year/

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.

we don't need a feminist take on Turtles. We already got the feminist take on Ghostbusters and that was a flaming dumpster fire of which the world has never seen.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

we don't need a feminist take on Turtles. We already got the feminist take on Ghostbusters and that was a flaming dumpster fire of which the world has never seen.

No no no no...

Feigeturtles will be amazing. I can't wait to watch Melissa McCarthy voice a motion-capture Michelangelo.

That's what the TMNT need; more queef jokes.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Voltron

The fact that it was Maggie Gyllenhaal and her "drank from the False Grail" face rather than the delightfully lickable Katie Holmes did make it so much more satisfying when she died in TDK, though.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.

I gotta ask - what about TMNT screams feminist to you?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Honestly, no matter what they do with this reboot, I feel if they want to make it succeed, it has to be something brand new we haven't seen on the big screen before. I think they will try a new approach with the TMNT, SOMETHING NO FILM VERSION HAS DONE BEFORE, I just don't know what. no, I don't think it will be making them a dark and gritty TMNT take, but something new and different, that keeps the origin and mythology intact, but does something new with it.

[IndigoErth]

Up until the point someone felt the need to put "April" in a school girl uniform, the Turtles have always been pretty good in this aspect really. Given the same company is still involved, getting a woman as part of the writing team is probably a good idea.

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them. These guys are kinda feminist, but in the best ways possible and is part of the good heart of TMNT and needs to remain.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Up until the point someone felt the need to put "April" in a school girl uniform, the Turtles have always been pretty good in this aspect really. Given the same company is still involved, getting a woman as part of the writing team is probably a good idea.

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them.

Like how Leo is sometimes act around Karai in some versions?

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them. These guys are kinda feminist, but in the best ways possible and is part of the good heart of TMNT and needs to remain.

Well said. And does it all without preaching, too.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Leo656

But HOW would you sell it to an audience of people who only know or care about the cartoon(s)? It absolutely doesn't matter how well-done or engaging it is, it HAS to be a commercially viable product to even get a budget.

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.

I'm not being a curmudgeon on this. I grew up with the 80s show and love it for what it is, I've never felt that it easily lent itself to a live action setting but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least curious about about a movie with the Fred Wolf show as it's main inspiration.

Thing is for a long time people have been screaming very loudly how the 80s show in live action was basically a license to print money and the only version the general audience would ever accept. We know people in Hollywood that have handled the property have felt the same way but there's always been something that has stopped the movies going fully in that direction but finally they were able to do it in climate just right for it...and it failed.

It's not like this was some bastardized version of the cartoon. Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, the Technodrome (when it was fully assembled) looked and were characterized exactly how you'd want them to be, they even pulled from specific episodes particularly the Eye of Sarnath stuff. Sure, there were a few things that fell short, the turtle designs even weirdly smoothed out still didn't really fit and we didn't get a proper Technodrome battle which I'm sure was an issue of budget but ultimately it was a more than reasonable version of the old show. Even stuff that I personally felt made the old show look like Shakespeare like the Loony Tunes-esque physics and absurd Party Wagon with flailing nunchuk arms is something else people have incessantly argued for. The whole idea that the only way to do TMNT is to really lean into the goofyness and yet the public largely turned their noses up at it.

If fans still want to argue the case for the old show fair enough but you can no longer use the argument this is the only version the general public will accept because they had it and did not accept it. The question now is if general public wont accept that what will they accept?

I know some people will argue that the 2014 movie made money purely out of curiosity (and of course soured people in "superior" sequel) but I just don't buy that. Yeah it was garbage and a lot of us could see it was going to be garbage early on and it never really recovered from "It's just a mask. See?" But to a lot of people it just looked much more like a modern comic book movie, even the marketing was aimed at the same audience that make those movies a hit as opposed to the bizarre attempt at a coalition of 30-somethings and 8-12 year olds the sequels marketing was aimed at.

"Hey kids d'ya like TMNT on Nickelodeon? Well here's your dad's version"

The 2014 movie didn't fall short because it was ever so slightly serious and had a smidgen of edge in the visuals. It was just was not a good take on these things and yeah I feel if the foundation had been the Mirage story and they were not dead set on the idea that this was a new version and thus you had to completely re-imagine it, it would have been better. You could still easily fit the whole captured and escaping down a snowy mountain in a Mirage inspired story.

I don't think anyone - even Andrew is advocating a panel for panel recreation of the Mirage comic and most of what people like about TMNT is either already present in the original or could easily be inserted. Human POV characters, romance, large scale action basically anything that currently works in Hollywood now could easily fit with a Mirage inspired movie just like 1990 movie did.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.

It could have been the greatest movie ever made and it would have tanked because it was a sequel to the 2014 movie. No one was going to show up for a sequel to a movie nobody liked.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.

I'm not being a curmudgeon on this. I grew up with the 80s show and love it for what it is, I've never felt that it easily lent itself to a live action setting but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least curious about about a movie with the Fred Wolf show as it's main inspiration.

Thing is for a long time people have been screaming very loudly how the 80s show in live action was basically a license to print money and the only version the general audience would ever accept. We know people in Hollywood that have handled the property have felt the same way but there's always been something that has stopped the movies going fully in that direction but finally they were able to do it in climate just right for it...and it failed.

It's not like this was some bastardized version of the cartoon. Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, the Technodrome (when it was fully assembled) looked and were characterized exactly how you'd want them to be, they even pulled from specific episodes particularly the Eye of Sarnath stuff. Sure, there were a few things that fell short, the turtle designs even weirdly smoothed out still didn't really fit and we didn't get a proper Technodrome battle which I'm sure was an issue of budget but ultimately it was a more than reasonable version of the old show. Even stuff that I personally felt made the old show look like Shakespeare like the Loony Tunes-esque physics and absurd Party Wagon with flailing nunchuk arms is something else people have incessantly argued for. The whole idea that the only way to do TMNT is to really lean into the goofyness and yet the public largely turned their noses up at it.

If fans still want to argue the case for the old show fair enough but you can no longer use the argument this is the only version the general public will accept because they had it and did not accept it. The question now is if general public wont accept that what will they accept?

I know some people will argue that the 2014 movie made money purely out of curiosity (and of course soured people in "superior" sequel) but I just don't buy that. Yeah it was garbage and a lot of us could see it was going to be garbage early on and it never really recovered from "It's just a mask. See?" But to a lot of people it just looked much more like a modern comic book movie, even the marketing was aimed at the same audience that make those movies a hit as opposed to the bizarre attempt at a coalition of 30-somethings and 8-12 year olds the sequels marketing was aimed at.

"Hey kids d'ya like TMNT on Nickelodeon? Well here's your dad's version"

The 2014 movie didn't fall short because it had ever so slightly serious and had a smidgen of edge in the visuals. It was just a good take on these things and yeah I feel if the foundation had been the Mirage story and they were not dead set on the idea that this was a new version and thus you had to completely re-imagine it, it would have been better. You could still easily fit the whole captured and escaping down a snowy mountain in a Mirage inspired story.

I don't think anyone - even Andrew is advocating a panel for panel recreation of the Mirage comic and most of what people like about TMNT is either already present in the original but you could easily put in a lot of what works in Hollywood now just like 1990 movie did.

So do you like the mirage,Archie,and idw comics? Just asking.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Krutch

It could have been the greatest movie ever made and it would have tanked because it was a sequel to the 2014 movie. No one was going to show up for a sequel to a movie nobody liked.

I don't buy that.

I'm sure some people were put off but Paramount and Platinum Dunes did a very effective job with their promotion. Basically selling the entire thing as the biggest apology ever, every trailer made it abundantly clear this was going to be a very different movie to the first.

They listened to the fans and fixed all that was perceived to be wrong with the first. Trying to be "dark" and "serious"? Well this is a complete goofy slapstick, Not enough like the old cartoon? Well here's everything from the old cartoon. Problem is I don't think these were the real problems with the 2014 movie.

Also the first movie not only had a good opening but had decent legs against Guardians of the Galaxy whereas the sequel had a full two weeks to turn it's poor opening around before Finding Dory was released. Positive word of mouth could done that; it didn't.

Originally Posted by Toxin45

So do you like the mirage,Archie,and idw comics? Just asking.

I like all of 'em.

I'm not sure the Archie book would make a good basis for a movie. Turtles with a globetrotting theme could work since I think that's what Platinum Dunes would like.

In the Blue Door script the four turtles scatter to different parts of the world. I vaguely remember them saying that in Out Of The Shadows they originally planned to have two of the macguffins to open the portal to be in two separate countries but I'm guessing time and budget meant they stuck with Brazil and probably left China for the third movie.

Not sure how the political and environmental themes would go down. Turtles fighting for a free Tibet and avenging murdered Labour union leaders in Brazil might not sit well with some people in this climate. Besides one of the more important characters in that run is owned by her creators so Ninjara is out.

I wouldn't say no to an IDW based movie. In many ways it's almost seems as if Waltz made with intention of being something to pass round a Hollywood board room. It's take on the origin in particular is something I could see appealing to Hollywood execs...a few years ago. They are a lab experiment gone wrong and reincarnated ancient Japanese warriors.

I've often argued that we shouldn't accept that people knowing the turtles origin is a given but if we reasonably take a chance on them knowing the ooze, raised in sewer part of the origin something like Secret History of the Foot Clan would be a good basis for a movie.