Post Endgame MCU Predictions

[sdp]

This twitter account posted End Game spoilers back in early December as well as what was going to happen post Phase 3.

If he's to be believed and not "got lucky with very specific details" what would happen at End game is:

-Thunderbolt trilogy: Cast (Zemo, Ghost, Justin Hammer, General Ross, and the Abomimation)
-Villian is The leader (incredible hulk villian tease)
- Ms. Marvel and power pack suppose to have films or several seasons on Disney+ still talking about it
-The black knight is being considered for a new avenger and have films based around him.

That'd be kind of cool, Hulk as his own character kind of got shafted when The Incredible Hulk wasn't the hit that the other solo movies were in the first phase and I'd love to see Betty Ross again.

But yeah I'd say we're minimum 3 years away from seeing Fantastic Four and X-Men in the MCU. I also wonder many people say it's the end of an Era and while fans will stick to it, I'd say a lot of the casual audience is not going to be returning for future films, to them they had their "pay off" and it's the casual audience that has made these superhero films become what they've become.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by sdp

This twitter account posted End Game spoilers back in early December as well as what was going to happen post Phase 3.

If he's to be believed and not "got lucky with very specific details" what would happen at End game is:

-Thunderbolt trilogy: Cast (Zemo, Ghost, Justin Hammer, General Ross, and the Abomimation)
-Villian is The leader (incredible hulk villian tease)
- Ms. Marvel and power pack suppose to have films or several seasons on Disney+ still talking about it
-The black knight is being considered for a new avenger and have films based around him.

That'd be kind of cool, Hulk as his own character kind of got shafted when The Incredible Hulk wasn't the hit that the other solo movies were in the first phase and I'd love to see Betty Ross again.

But yeah I'd say we're minimum 3 years away from seeing Fantastic Four and X-Men in the MCU. I also wonder many people say it's the end of an Era and while fans will stick to it, I'd say a lot of the casual audience is not going to be returning for future films, to them they had their "pay off" and it's the casual audience that has made these superhero films become what they've become.

Thunderbolts could work. I'd be happy with that. Especially more Ghost.

He did nail quite a bit of stuff back in December, didn't he? Impressive.

And yeah, you see the situation the way I do... it's gonna be awhile for Fox characters. And I've wondered if casuals might leave the MCU in trickles, given that it's "over" now. Except for Spiderman and Black Panther, which are going to continue to be major hits. Probably Captain Marvel too...

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Given some of the hints we've seen, including some "fake?" logo teases of Avengers 4, I'd say that the FF may be closer to an intro than we realize. Marvel/Disney has been chomping at the bit to get the rights back for them, especially after the most recent, failed movie. They are also anxious to use many of their villains, particularly Galactus and the Surfer. Namor, too, if some rumors about a solo movie are to be believed. If memory serves, I believe there was even an Easter egg for Reed hidden in a scene waaay back when Fury was recruiting for the team, along with a few others. And with Captain (still Ms to me) Marvel now in the MCU, Rogue and the other X-Men can't be far behind either, if they stay true to her story arc.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Marvel/Disney has been chomping at the bit to get the rights back for them, especially after the most recent, failed movie. They are also anxious to use many of their villains, particularly Galactus and the Surfer.

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

That's one of the reasons I think we don't see Fantastic Four or X-Men anytime soon (ie before Phase 5 or the next event movie). They obviously had a desire and a tentative idea how they could do Galactus without the Richards family.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

That's one of the reasons I think we don't see Fantastic Four or X-Men anytime soon (ie before Phase 5 or the next event movie). They obviously had a desire and a tentative idea how they could do Galactus without the Richards family.

Though I think they knew it was a case of what they had to barter with at that particular time. Daredevil... Surfer and Galactus? Not quite equal, but wtf would Fox do with any of those two in 2012? Apparently nothing, not even in the reboot that failed. Though Fox almost did actually do a Daredevil reboot on their own when the clock on rights was running out, which I think is what Marvel was hedging their bets on. Marvel figured Galactus and Surfer was what they could have realistically gotten out of the offer, given the timetable and what was at stake... asking for more wouldn't have been feasible, even if they'd wanted to. Though as you say... the fact that they offered at all means that they had a plan right there and then for how to integrate JUST Surfer and Galactus.

If it was like... we'll give you the f***in' Punisher... then it'd be more like, "OK, we gonna need Dr. Doom. And Galactus. And Surfer. Sorry."

[Leo656]

Plus, of exactly what value is the Fantastic 4 to the MCU, at this point, three bad movies in? Outside of this forum, I've never, ever heard anyone say "What I really wanna see is another Fantastic 4 movie", not once. I'd argue that the first one was as close as anyone could get to doing a "proper" F4 adaptation - despite the mediocre execution of Dr. Doom - and it just wasn't very good. And even Doom wasn't terrible, but the movie pretty much was.

Frankly, I think the material is too campy. And when they try to play it more "straight", you end up with Fant4stic, which was awful for entirely different reasons. Again, the original movie didn't do a whole lot "wrong", it actually did a very faithful translation of the material, one of the most faithful comic book adaptations ever, really... but that just doesn't add up to a compelling film. A few different actors would have helped, probably... but I don't think that would have saved it. It's all just too silly.

I know they have their fans, but I think the F4 needs the MCU far more than the MCU needs the F4. I don't think that specific "brand" has much value to the MCU right now. They definitely need Dr. Doom and Galactus, because they've always struggled to present compelling villains, but I have a feeling that they'd much prefer to introduce them as "Marvel Villains" in the broader sense rather than "Fantastic 4 Villains"; meaning, they could probably introduce them into the MCU without referencing the F4 at all, and most people probably wouldn't cry about it. Same with Silver Surfer, who isn't really a villain anyway; they obviously would love to include him somewhere, but they don't need the F4 for that. He could easily show up as part of one of the Guardians movies, for example.

I just don't see how they could do a "proper" F4 movie without simply re-making the first one note-for-note with a better Dr. Doom. Again, that movie was extremely faithful... it just didn't add up to much. So I really don't see any way of improving on the formula beyond very minimal tweaks to the cast and script.

I know, I know... "Family", "Heart", yadda yadda... those themes can be and have been explored to a satisfactory degree in other movies, ones with much more interesting protagonists. I don't think too many people are salivating for a new F4. In fact, I pretty much promise that if they announce a new F4 movie before a new X-Men one, a lot of people are gonna be pretty pissed off. Everyone's curious to see what's next for Wolverine; nobody really cares who the next Reed Richards is. Sounds harsh, but it is what it is.

It's pretty obvious to me that Marvel/Disney just want Doom and Galactus. And if they can integrate them in a satisfactory way without bothering with the F4, they most likely will.

Not trying to be disrespectful, since I know they do have some passionate fans, just calling it like I see it. The F4 brand has not historically done well outside of comic books, as even their cartoon shows have been pretty bad and were cancelled quickly. I'm not convinced enough people really care. I simply can't see the studio being interested in all the work it would take to erase the stink of the past few films. It's a tainted brand.

But stranger things have happened. I guess we'll see.

[Andrew NDB]

Disagree. While Galactus and Silver Surfer are super important to Marvel and they could easily build a whole Phase around just that, easily (it's really, really not hard to imagine a whole Phase built around "Uh oh... here comes Galactus!" in the same way we went "holy sh**!" when Thanos showed up at the end of A1)... they know the value of a proper F4. They'll give us something like a more "grown up" Incredibles. But it'll be earned, and seeded throughout X projects first before the big debut.

And I've heard tons of people clamoring for a new, proper F4 movie outside of here. Granted, it's stifled by "well we've already gotten two horrible ones!" But that doesn't change the wish.

[Jester]

I hope if they do Fantastic Four, they get Terry Crews as Thing.

[Leo656]

Well, we probably travel in much different circles, so I can't argue it. I can only call what I see from Over Here.

I do know a few people who kind of liked the first movie, but I've never heard anyone tell me personally that they were thirsty for more. Especially after the second one. And then... well, we don't need to keep mentioning the last one, do we?

And again, what exactly would be "proper"? The first movie was "proper" in all the important ways (and Doom could have easily been amped up to be a bigger threat in a better sequel than the sequel they actually made; it wasn't a bad approach for his debut film, though).

If it's going to be "proper" in the same way Spider-Man: Homecoming was "proper" - change literally everything except the costumes and cram it full of MCU connective tissue and even more corny jokes - then I'd say No Thanks.

Like it or not, the first F4 was more or less "perfect" as a translation of the material. I'd simply argue that the material doesn't lend itself to film as well as many of the other characters/stories. It wasn't a great movie, but it told the story from the books properly and faithfully. I can't see them giving it another go without making tons and tons of deviations on account of "Well, that's been done already so we HAVE to make tons of pointless changes that do more harm than good", kinda like Amazing Spider-Man did. Everything that film did to be "different" from the Raimi movie actively made the movie worse than it would have been if they'd done a copy/paste. I can't see things going much differently. Pointless Changes Are Pointless, and stick out like a sore thumb to people who actually know the stories and want to see them retold faithfully.

And you're right, they probably will go that route, but I HATE when they do that kinda thing, and it's why I've skipped more than half of these things to begin with.

I'unno, we'll see. I definitely, definitely think that far more people would rather see the X-Men reboot first, though. That's gotta be a statistical fact.

[sdp]

Fantastic Four are amazing, they're explorers but unless written well they can be lame superheroes so yeah they have potential and I think Marvel Studios could be the ones who pull it off despite the previous moves souring people on the franchise. They really don't need an origin film, do it like they did with Hulk where you get flashbacks to the origins but they're having their own adventure already.

It'll be difficult to make Dr. Doom a villain people care about after his last movies but he's Avengers 5 villain material if written correctly and no doubt can they have a ton of movies just dealing with the Surfer and other space heralds and shenanigans, hell I'd some real space adventures F4 movies. Too bad that they'll likely want to start from scratch with X-Men and the whole anti-mutant storylines Fox already did (even if badly), I'd love some space adventures X-Men and make this whole Phase 4-6 a Cosmic Marvel thing but we'll see, I think it might be too geeky for casual Marvel fans.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yep! Marvel offered to let Fox keep Daredevil... as long as Marvel could use Galactus and Silver Surfer. That's all they asked.

Fox said no. Only because they wanted to do their sh**ty F4 reboot. And we saw how that went.

http://collider.com/daredevil-joe-carnahan/186813/

This is a fascinating piece of the puzzle that I was unaware of. Thanks for linking the article.

I'd just say that one thing to keep in mind is, I believe this is back when Kevin Feige was still reporting to Ike Perlmutter, who had the a lot of final say in the MCU at the time. He was the one who pushed for the Inhumans film and eventually took it to the television side, once Kevin was able to get out from under his shadow. He's also known for supposedly standing in the way of the Black Widow and Captain Marvel films. I say all this, just to give context to his former part in the company.

So they could have been plans of Ike's. Equally possible that it's Kevin who had plans for these characters, of course.

Oh, and...poor DD. Tossed around like chopped liver. Glad he was returned to Marvel and blessed with the Netflix show, after all.

[AquaParade]

Hey, I had a quick thought and wanted to see what ya'll think...

What if Endgame having no post-credit scene could be a bigger statement than we realize?
What if Homecoming has no post-credit scene?

We all know the MCU is straddling this nebulous line between Endgame being a finale, while the MCU matches forward with some of the same characters and plotlines that have already been established.

Well, maybe one way they plan to differentiate themselves is to end the trend of post-credit scenes, which could mark the start of something new, while simultaneously sending the message that, "hey, we are allowing ourselves a bit more freedom now. Not everything has to be 100% connected in order to build a cohesive universe."

Just a thought.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it. I find the post-credit scenes to be largely disappointing, and even counterintuitive to the idea that we are being given a complete story. I won't mind if they hang around. I know some people consider them an important signature of the MCU, but I see it as an interesting and bold way to put a line in the sand.

thanks for reading.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Hey, I had a quick thought and wanted to see what ya'll think...

What if Endgame having no post-credit scene could be a bigger statement than we realize?
What if Homecoming has no post-credit scene?

We all know the MCU is straddling this nebulous line between Endgame being a finale, while the MCU matches forward with some of the same characters and plotlines that have already been established.

Well, maybe one way they plan to differentiate themselves is to end the trend of post-credit scenes, which could mark the start of something new, while simultaneously sending the message that, "hey, we are allowing ourselves a bit more freedom now. Not everything has to be 100% connected in order to build a cohesive universe."

Just a thought.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it. I find the post-credit scenes to be largely disappointing, and even counterintuitive to the idea that we are being given a complete story. I won't mind if they hang around. I know some people consider them an important signature of the MCU, but I see it as an interesting and bold way to put a line in the sand.

thanks for reading.

I like the end credit stuff in that it basically forces people to watch... end credits. In that... you know... the people who made the movie get "seen." And there's been some big MCU whoppers here and there. More often than not it's a bit lame, though. It seems like they'd settled on the END credits scene being something dumb and funny, but the MID end credits scene being something pivotal. That appears to be the formula.

[Utrommaniac]

Well, the most obvious one is Thor losing his beer gut the next time we see him .

Now, I'm not too well-versed on Marvel lore as a whole, but I can see where Galactus would make sense from what I know of him. (He should be able to top Thanos as a threat, anyway?) If they can't get a hold of him due to legal stuff, provided Disney doesn't do what it's been doing best as of late, I wouldn't have a clue on who could possibly top Thanos' game.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Galactus would make sense from what I know of him. (He should be able to top Thanos as a threat, anyway?) If they can't get a hold of him due to legal stuff, provided Disney doesn't do what it's been doing best as of late, I wouldn't have a clue on who could possibly top Thanos' game.

Disney has owned Galactus since the moment the Fox deal was finalized 2 months ago.

He is a God. In a bigger sense than Thor calls himself a "God." He assumes gigantic humanoid form because he can, but he goes around eating planets as sustenance.

It is the only logical progression from Thanos. Though there can be an argument for Dr. Doom as an in between threat.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I like the end credit stuff in that it basically forces people to watch... end credits. In that... you know... the people who made the movie get "seen."

Yeah, that’s a good a reason as any to keep them around, I suppose.

[ProactiveMan]

Gotta know who drove Chris Hemsworth to set every morning, and who manages ILM's IT department.

[sdp]

I feel we were robbed of an Iron Man 4, I would've loved to have seen one more solo Iron Man movie. Sure , we see him in all the Avengers movies, Civil War, Spider-Man but he needed one last solo hoorah against some villain, who cares even if it's MODOK.

I remember after Avengers there was speculation that RDJ wouldn't want to do the role for much longer and that's why Iron Man 3 had that ambiguous ending of him quitting being Iron Man but clearly he was in for the whole 10 year phase and Disney had the money to throw at him.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ProactiveMan

Gotta know who drove Chris Hemsworth to set every morning

What about the poor bastard who had to drive Brie Larson to and from set? That guy deserves... soemthing.