Star Wars: Episode IX

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by IMJ

This was probably your most articulate and well argued post ever.

I appreciate that, but I still stand by everything I've said about Melissa Benoist's gash.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

That's because the actual last word of the movie is "Skywalker" when she says "my name is Ray, Ray Skywalker".

That brings up another thing. When they announced the subtitle of IX with that first trailer and everyone -- even us, here -- was like, "Rise of Skywalker...? What does that MEAN?" And we'd throw around credible theories how maybe it could mean what replaces the Jedi Order (i.e., if you're a Force user and good and part of that order, you're a Skywalker not a Jedi), or maybe someone(s) is revealed to be part of the Skywalker lineage and there's a riseup... or any one of a dozen or more interesting theories.

How pathetic is it that of all of those theories and what the title could mean, JJ went with literally the simplest, dumbest of all?

Originally Posted by sdp

I think I'm just head in the Star Wars hate cycle, most didn't hate TFA until TLJ or at least Rogue One, that's when the tide began to change, people were just in denial until TLJ happened. As bad as TLJ is, the biggest flaw is the one inherited from TFA which is just rebels vs empire v.2.0. After a few months/year of TLJ even most who defended are now on the other side, however now TROS is getting mixed reviews even with all the pro disney machine going on. I can only imagine things will get ugly.

I'm already passed that, this trilogy sucks, I'm hoping to get some cool scenes, and that's it. They can't possibly make this trilogy good, but I don't want this movie to suck, I want it to be good and the movie isn't going to do bad no matter how much I want it, it'll still do amazing numbers because it's the last one and everyone haters and lovers will watch it just to see what it is.

I can't wait to see the movie, I'm spoiler free for the most part and can't wait to see what the hell they do, I'm genuinely curious. End of an era. I can still love certain aspects of star wars and for me any new movies will be treated the same way I treated the old EU. I would read the titles that interested me and the others I ignored because they were silly fanfic crap. Disney could've had something special with star wars but oh well, at least I can still enjoy the franchise. I've come along way since my meltdowns in Episode VII and Episode VIII threads

A pretty level-headed way of looking at things. And you're right, even the initial fans of TLJ have spun around the other way, or at the very least now know it's fairly indefensible.

That's about all I'm "hoping" for -- some good scenes, scattered about. Moments. Just about everything I'm reading about "Rise of Skywalker" reads pretty terrible on paper... however, the execution on screen with a John Williams score behind it might be something else entirely.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I, personally, don't have a big problem with "Rebels vs. Empire" being recycled or rehashed. That's not my problem with the new flicks. It's always going to come back around to some variation of that, even if the names of the "Empire" and "Rebellion" are occasionally changed or updated or whatever. As I've said before, "War" is right there in the franchise title, and "scrappy underdogs" vs. "supreme overlords" is a pretty universal theme. It lends itself great to just about any story because the "Big Bullies vs. The Oppressed" doesn't require a whole lot of exposition or backstory to explain or set up. You can jump into the middle of the story and still know, essentially, what's going on. And right down to an individual level, every single person is, in some way, either the Bully or the Victim, so it's a concept that speaks to people fundamentally. Sure, there are other stories about War that you can utilize, but the simplest approach is usually the best.

No, my problem is that the Sequel Trilogy had three important jobs to do:
1. Give the old cast of characters a proper and satisfying send-off.
2. Introduce new, well-defined characters that can take the place of the originals going forward without upsetting too many people.
3. Handle the "passing of the torch" from Old to New in a graceful and satisfying way.

They failed miserably with ALL THREE. I mean, I liked TFA more than most people did; I understood why they had to play it safe and I thought they did a reasonably good job. I liked the new characters just fine, BUT I was hopeful that the upcoming films would flesh them out more, give them some good material to work with... but they didn't do that. Just "identity politics" nonsense and Ma-Rey Sue (and Lord, I *hate* the term "Mary Sue", because I feel like ANY Original Character nowadays gets slapped with that label just by existing, and it unfairly limits a writers' ability to create new characters, so I don't use it lightly). I liked Poe in TFA, but by the end of TLJ I wanted him dead. I was a big fan of Rey in TFA, I saw a lot of potential... all wasted in the sequel. Like literally, everyone I liked in the first flick, I was sick of by the end of the second. And that's due to piss-poor writing. The actors are fine.

And then there's the horrible way they handled the original cast. Not even ONE goddamn scene of Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie together, give or take a Lando? COME ON, that's the very first thing they should have thought of doing. I know Abrams has apologized for dropping the ball on that, but it's not really even his fault, it's the fault of his Corporate Overlords at Disney who told him not to worry too much about the original cast because they're not who's important. And now, they wasted the chance, and since Carrie Fisher had to go and do what Carrie Fisher does (read: Drugs), we'll never, EVER get to see the one and ONLY thing anyone actually WANTED to see in these f*cking sequel movies!

And forget "Passing the torch", that was more like the bum's rush. "Get off the stage, Grandpa, these kids don't wanna see YOU, they're here to see Daisy Ridley get all sweaty, you're just the garnish." Horrible. And to tell the fans who didn't like it that THEY were the problem? Unacceptable. I know these films - like the Prequels - were always going to face a backlash, simply because the fans have been writing all three movies in their heads for the last few decades - like the Prequels! - but it didn't have to be THIS bad.

So yeah... that's my problem. Not that TFA was a little bit too familiar, or that the entire plot of "Rebels vs. Empire" is essentially recycled. To some degree, that stuff was inevitable and unavoidable. "There's only so many basic plots", etc. etc. But they had a very simple job to do and COMPLETELY f*cked it up by making the wrong things a priority.

In 40 years, Luke Skywalker will still sell ten times as many action figures as Rey "Skywalker". Could've been about even, but they f*cked it up.

I agree with all of this except the "inevitability" of seeing Empire vs. Rebels again. That's ludicrous. Before TFA, half of the movies weren't even about that (well, the first three episodes had Republic vs. Rebels of a sort, but the perspective was flipped from the OT and it wasn't a huge part of events). The basic premise, sure, of a story wrapping around a small group of characters that go up against seemingly an insurmountable enemy... but that doesn't mean Empire vs. Rebels again. That could be many things. It could be a civil war within the New Republic, it could be that now that the New Republic is in peacetime and has no real problems anymore (sort of like us, now), zealots start preaching about the Sith Order and start getting recruits and terrorists/saboteurs start doing bad business... right when Darth Plagueis returns! Hell, it could even be the hackneyed thing about a new alien threat emerging in the galaxy.

I think the thing JJ is getting fundamentally wrong about VII-IX, particularly about IX, is that he's approaching it as "the end of the trilogy of trilogies" and "the end of the Skywalker saga." It never needed to be that. VI wrapped up everything that needed to be wrapped up (like, literally... Lucas combined all of the biggest original ideas he had for VII-IX and packed them into VI with a ribbon), so anything after that should be looked at as overtime in "the Skywalker saga." Which is fine, but let's not pretend this is the wrapup of some overarching thing... it's not. I mean, they're suddenly trying to make it that in the third part in the latest trilogy, but that doesn't retroactively make VII and VIII that. It's insulting.

And is it just me, or is it a little bit annoying to be told that we're supposed to look at the numerical movies as "the Skywalker saga" now? And that "this is the definitive END of the Skywalker Saga!" I never looked at it as the Skywalker saga. I mean, I-VI were BASICALLY that, sure. And maybe a Skywalker presence would and should always factor into the core saga on some level, but it wasn't like I'd expect Episode XVII to be about Gordo Skywalker, Jedi Knight. It's the Star Wars episodic saga, same as the serials of yore. It ought to go on and it shift/evolve into this or that.

Also, does the whole sudden push to end the Skywalker family saga and line smack to anyone else of JJ and company drinking the internet/Youtube Kool-Aid about "The Star Wars saga is all about how the galaxy has to pay the price for one selfish family's choices!"? Sort of like how Cobra Kai went and ran with the whole "Daniel was a bully!" thing that was floating about? But where Cobra Kai did something amazing and ironic with that, this reeks of Kennedy and company deciding that the Skywalker family is "problematic" in 2019, as they continue (trying to) growing the brand. I hate to think Disney is ruling out an Episode X in 5-10 years (which we know we will get regardless) simply because of that.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I agree with all of this except the "inevitability" of seeing Empire vs. Rebels again. That's ludicrous. Before TFA, half of the movies weren't even about that (well, the first three episodes had Republic vs. Rebels of a sort, but the perspective was flipped from the OT and it wasn't a huge part of events). The basic premise, sure, of a story wrapping around a small group of characters that go up against seemingly an insurmountable enemy... but that doesn't mean Empire vs. Rebels again. That could be many things. It could be a civil war within the New Republic, it could be that now that the New Republic is in peacetime and has no real problems anymore (sort of like us, now), zealots start preaching about the Sith Order and start getting recruits and terrorists/saboteurs start doing bad business... right when Darth Plagueis returns! Hell, it could even be the hackneyed thing about a new alien threat emerging in the galaxy.

I mean, fair point, but on one hand, any of those things would probably require a lot more exposition to catch people up, and also, I really think that Disney was banking on attracting a lot of first-timers to the franchise with these movies, and on that, they've actually succeeded tremendously. I mean, look at who likes TFA and TLJ the most out of anyone: People (mostly female) who had never given the franchise the time of day before, for one reason or other, BUT they jumped in with the new ones and think they're brilliant, while also thinking that "The Old Movies" are overrated as hell.

Those people generally only knew a few things about Star Wars before jumping in: Vader is Luke's father, and that there's "an Empire" and there's "Rebel Scum". So you almost have to keep a few things "the same" as the old movies so that even neophytes who just came to the party now don't feel completely lost. "Okay, so the First Order is the new 'Empire' and the Rebels, are... the Rebels." Yeah it's recycled, it's "lazy", it's whatever... but if your buddy who doesn't know anything asks you what's going on, you can bring them completely up to speed in five seconds in less than three sentences.

It might not be to everyone's taste, and yes, there are definitely other stories they could have told, but frankly, I never, ever, ever expected anything different, right from the first announcement several years ago. I mean, I read enough of the Dark Horse comics at one point to know that "Rebels vs. Empire" is pretty much the only idea any "professional" writer is ever going to tell in a post-New Hope setting. Any "bad guys" are simply replacing the Empire and trying to usurp Palpatine's position/finish what he started. And I mean, why wouldn't they? Like, even in-story, the end of RotJ was mostly symbolic; it's not like Nazis aren't still a persistent and enduring thing just because Hitler died. Luke and Co. scored a very important personal victory and struck a huge blow to the Empire, but that's the thing about Empires, you cut off one head and there's like eight more. Sith Lord or no, you don't win a war by killing One Guy. As Wonder Woman found out the hard way in her movie.

That's why any stories in the comics that tried to move past "Rebels vs. Empire" were always set, like, hundreds or thousands of years into the future, post-RotJ. It would take a loooong time for that conflict to resolve itself, Palpatine or no Palpatine. TFA was like, what, how many years later? 30-40? No, yeah, we're still firmly in the timeframe where the Empire would still exist, even as a shadow of its former self.

So part of it is, I was already used to the idea, having seen it done and re-done so many times, but even when Disney scrapped the old EU, I knew it was going to be Empire vs. Rebels again. But also because a couple of decades just isn't enough time to expect this great big huge "Evil Empire" to dissolve away - especially if we're in a timeline where Luke never successfully managed to establish a New Jedi Order and Leia never fully managed to establish The New Republic and turn it into anything meaningful.

I'm still kind of surprised that anyone expected anything but "Rebels vs. Empire, XX Years Later." I knew that's what we were getting way before they told us. It's the only thing that made sense.
---------------------

Everything else you said I agree with, pretty much.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I mean, fair point, but on one hand, any of those things would probably require a lot more exposition to catch people up, and also, I really think that Disney was banking on attracting a lot of first-timers to the franchise with these movies, and on that, they've actually succeeded tremendously. I mean, look at who likes TFA and TLJ the most out of anyone: People (mostly female) who had never given the franchise the time of day before, for one reason or other, BUT they jumped in with the new ones and think they're brilliant, while also thinking that "The Old Movies" are overrated as hell.

I guess I can't argue with the box office, but I personally don't know even 1 Star Wars fan who became a Star Wars fan specifically because of TFA or TLJ.

"Okay, so the First Order is the new 'Empire' and the Rebels, are... the Rebels." Yeah it's recycled, it's "lazy", it's whatever... but if your buddy who doesn't know anything asks you what's going on, you can bring them completely up to speed in five seconds in less than three sentences.

Star Wars deserved better than that. And the First Order should be the Rebels, if anything. The "Rebels" took over the Empire and made the New Republic.

Luke and Co. scored a very important personal victory and struck a huge blow to the Empire, but that's the thing about Empires, you cut off one head and there's like eight more. Sith Lord or no, you don't win a war by killing One Guy. As Wonder Woman found out the hard way in her movie.

Except that's not what they told us happened. The Rebel Alliance scored a decisive victory over the Empire, formed the New Republic, took over all of the Empire's worlds, and left their two or three Star Destroyers crawling away. Then the New Republic became pacifistic and the voices that said, "Hey, the Empire is probably still working on kicking our asses!" became shunned and formed "The Resistance." But it was a resistance against the New Republic's pacifism, toward armament and strategic readiness for whatever the Imperial remnants may come at them with... not LITERALLY the First Order, who they didn't even know for sure would be coming.

Rian Johnson forgot all of this with TLJ or just didn't care. It really bothers me the moment where Boyega's character is, like, proudly even, proclaiming "We're Rebels!!!"

NO, you're not, you idiot. That was the OT. The First Order are the Rebels. Like, they're literally rebelling against the ruling government. You guys are just defending yourselves.

That's why any stories in the comics that tried to move past "Rebels vs. Empire" were always set, like, hundreds or thousands of years into the future, post-RotJ. It would take a loooong time for that conflict to resolve itself, Palpatine or no Palpatine.

My old EU knowledge is fuzzy now, but I seem to remember a straight-up armistice being signed with Pellaeon in books that took place about 10 years after Endor. Not 30, not 40, not 300.

I'm still kind of surprised that anyone expected anything but "Rebels vs. Empire, XX Years Later." I knew that's what we were getting way before they told us. It's the only thing that made sense.

It was the only thing that made sense when we knew Disney would be calling the shots, I think, in retrospect.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess I can't argue with the box office, but I personally don't know even 1 Star Wars fan who became a Star Wars fan specifically because of TFA or TLJ.



Star Wars deserved better than that. And the First Order should be the Rebels, if anything. The "Rebels" took over the Empire and made the New Republic.



Except that's not what they told us happened. The Rebel Alliance scored a decisive victory over the Empire, formed the New Republic, took over all of the Empire's worlds, and left their two or three Star Destroyers crawling away. Then the New Republic became pacifistic and the voices that said, "Hey, the Empire is probably still working on kicking our asses!" became shunned and formed "The Resistance." But it was a resistance against the New Republic's pacifism, toward armament and strategic readiness for whatever the Imperial remnants may come at them with... not LITERALLY the First Order, who they didn't even know for sure would be coming.

Rian Johnson forgot all of this with TLJ or just didn't care. It really bothers me the moment where Boyega's character is, like, proudly even, proclaiming "We're Rebels!!!"

NO, you're not, you idiot. That was the OT. The First Order are the Rebels. Like, they're literally rebelling against the ruling government. You guys are just defending yourselves.



My old EU knowledge is fuzzy now, but I seem to remember a straight-up armistice being signed with Pellaeon in books that took place about 10 years after Endor. Not 30, not 40, not 300.



It was the only thing that made sense when we knew Disney would be calling the shots, I think, in retrospect.

I don't speak to too many personally, but whenever I see comments on any articles about the newer movies, the ones who praise them the loudest openly declare that they never bothered with Star Wars until TFA or TLJ were released. Either those were the first ones they ever watched, OR they only decided to get into it now upon their release and maybe watched the older movies once each to quickly catch up before going to the theater for the new ones. So they've seen them, but don't idealize them as older fans do, and some outright say they're lousy, but at the very least "Nothing special", while the newer ones are "brilliant", especially TFA.

They tend to be predominantly female, have a strong dislike for Luke, and feel like Lucas screwed up by not making Leia the star of the original trilogy. So again, I don't speak to many of those people in daily life - I generally avoid talking to people with such awful opinions - but they exist, for sure. They definitely managed to attract a lot of New Fans with the last two movies, they just also pushed away a lot of older fans.

And again, I hear you, but to some level you have to dumb things down for mass appeal. Technically, yes, the First Order should be the Rebels, but it's easier to just gloss over that and look at it as "Taking up where the Empire left off, sharing their values and their technology = Empire." The rest is just a semantic argument.

You can't make these things too complicated. I mean, remember how badly people reacted to all the stuff about "trade disputes" and "blockades" and "Imperial Senates" and all that in the Prequels? I remember tons of people loudly declaring, "I don't care HOW it started, I just want to get to Empire vs. Rebels already." The more you have to explain How We Got Here, the more you risk losing people. They just went with the easiest thing. Sure, they could have done something 100% fresh, but... well, like you said, the box office speaks for itself. Not everyone loves the way TFA presented itself as "Everything You Loved About The Original Trilogy, With 0% Of That Prequel Junk", but whether it was creatively-bankrupt or not, it was, objectively, the right move. The follow-through was the problem, not the set-up.

And I admit I haven't read even half of the comics (and about, like two of the novels) from the old EU, but what I remember most was the Republic always trying to firmly establish a foothold and some remnant of the Empire always rising up to try and take over again. Maybe that did finally settle itself out, but for the most part only the names of the organizations on either side changed, the rest was fundamentally the same.

I mean, it's just Bullies vs. Underdogs. Do we NEED 80 pages of explanation as to the Who, How, and Why? Or can't it just be, "Yeah, it's kinda the same as last time, just different people?" Because the latter is how you make a billion and a half worldwide. It is what it is.

[Leo656]

As I'd guessed, most recent Spoilers coming out actually confirm that about 2/3s to 3/4s of the earlier leaks are dead-on, but a lot of the stuff supposedly from the last half hour or so were BS. Or, as in some Spoilers, the first huge chunk of stuff was fake and the ending was legit.

Makes me wonder how much of all of it maybe had been true, before the reshoots were finished.

Either way, sounds... eh, I'unno. Definitely better than the last one, but that's a very low bar. And some of it sounds cooooooorny. Especially the ending, as in the last scene. I mean, that was the one thing everyone agreed was legit since the beginning, but man... that's gonna be a tough sell to not be completely eye-rolling.

Spoiler:

- Apparently/allegedly, no explanation for Palpatine still being alive. Whaaaaaaaaat. That had best be bullsh*t. And his plan seems convoluted at best. Ian pretty much claimed they pulled him in at the 11th hour for this, and apparently it shows in the story execution. Sounds like they were banking on everyone in the audience being too shocked/excited at his reveal to actually build much into it.

- And I'm sure there's more involved than what I'm reading, but if Kylo actually brings Rey back to life through the "Power Of (Force) Love" - and it seems 100% certain - then that feels like this film's equivalent to either Leia Poppins or the Holdo Maneuver in the "...But That's Not How Sh*t Works" category. Like, since when can Force-users literally will someone back from the f*cking dead? Come ON. This stuff they just decide that people can suddenly do is infuriating, because if sh*t DID work that way, huge chunks of sh*t from every other Star Wars movie is nullified. Again, maaaybe they give it a halfway decent explanation, but if Kylo/Ben can just Try Really Hard and bring Rey back to life, I'm over here wondering why a bunch of other Important Dead People aren't up walking around.

Anakin/Vader: Tries to use the entire planet of Mustafar and a Big Tower Thing to try and bring Padme back to life, because he once heard a story about someone who tried (and failed) to do the same thing, and it turned out so badly it literally murdered the entire planet and didn't even work! Vader obviously never figures out how to do this because Sh*t Doesn't Work That Way.

Ben/Kylo: "Oh noes! Rey is dead! Please don't be dead, Rey!"
Rey: "It's okay, I'm not dead. I was for a minute. Thanks for not wanting me to be dead, because now I am not dead.
Ben: "Thank Goodness! Except now, I am dead. Can you in turn wish me back to life, friend? Since this is a thing we can apparently do?"
Rey: "I don't believe that I will, for reasons this movie will not fully explain and most people won't stop to think twice about. Goodbye."
Ben: "Okay. Oh, look, my dead parents!"

"Exhausting your own life force to make it work" or not... that really shouldn't be a thing anyone can do. Just feels... cheap.

Again, I'm hoping the movie tries really, REALLY hard to explain this stuff in much greater detail because on a surface level, it doesn't make any sense.

I know it's like how WWE strives to "Create Moments" and manufacture emotional memories rather than actual coherent storytelling, but some of that stuff sounds like a real ass-pull. SOME stuff sounds pretty good, though, and it does sound like it makes up for a lot of the last one - some people claim that the first quarter to a third of the movie is essentially all explaining and apologizing for the TLJ. But knowing for a fact that this movie's story is NOT at all what they originally planned to do makes any corrections seem rather hollow. They defended everything Rian did, tooth-and-nail, and now they're pretending that this was the natural evolution of the story and that they planned it that way from the jump, EVEN THOUGH every single person involved in the movies admits that wasn't the case, and that this entire thing was still being re-written on-set last month. It's so... weird.

Sounds like a fun movie to watch in theaters that falls apart in talking about it on the ride home. But I don't think it will split people down the middle like the last one did. I'unno, might go see it around New Years after things slow down. Doesn't sound terrible, just... meh.

Like, the writing itself is pretty bad from a storytelling perspective - things in this trilogy just don't make sense at all when you try and fit the movies together, as many people are pointing out - but I'm guessing that it at least seems slightly more coherent watching it play out in real-time, rather than in the disjointed Spoilers being related second- and third-hand.

Some stuff seems satisfying, but a LOT of it seems like, "But... that just doesn't make any SENSE." Especially Snoke/Rey/Palpatine. The story as-told across three movies simply is not consistent, unless people are leaving huge chunks out.

We'll see.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

First bunch of critic reviews are in. 55%, making this the second lowest ranking live action Star Wars film next to The Phantom Menace

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sta...e_of_skywalker

[AquaParade]

This thing is being torn apart, damn!

Makes me more curious to see it. I like Star Wara but not enough to be massively disappointed if it's truly terrible.

[Shark_Blade]

Lol f*** rottentomatoes. The biased reviewers gave The Last Jedi a 91% based on 455 reviews while general public gave it 45% based on 213,520 inputs.

Just go in with your own mindset and maybe with general public consensus too if you’re curious.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

First bunch of critic reviews are in. 55%, making this the second lowest ranking live action Star Wars film next to The Phantom Menace

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sta...e_of_skywalker

Wow, this movie can't even count on the loyal support of the critical elite!

Wait... maybe that's a good sign for audiences and fans?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just wait for articles exposing these bad reviews as a deliberate campaign of hate from people who haven't seen the movie yet.

Any day now. We've done this song and dance before. No movie is allowed to fail because it's a terrible movie anymore.

[Shark_Blade]

After watching it

Spoiler:

So what I like:
- I really, really despised Kylo Ren/Ben since TFA. He was just a spoiled brat, threw a tantrum and unnecessarily an overpowering antagonist. I was smiling when Rey stabbed him but was greatly disappointed when Rey healed him! Tf Rey, that annoying trash deserves to die. When Han Solo was talking to him, the dude sitting next to me was literally sobbing but I didn’t feel a damn thing lol. I guess I started warming up to Ben when he turned side and aiding Rey. Him sacrificing his life to save Rey was great too. A nice end to an annoying “villain” turned to good guy.
- Finnpoe doesn’t get to be a couple but at least they’re promoted to General Bros now.
- I love the trio group hug at the end. Very intimate and loving, great chemistry
- Leia and Luke ghosts force appearing together at the end is so sweet (why couldn’t Han Solo and Ben appear too? Lol ghost young Anakin can obnoxiously appeared with Obi Wan and Yoda in RotJ but not them? Make it make sense)

What I don’t like:
- the Jedi ghosts are silly. They can appear whenever they want or when the story demands it, they can cause impact on physical things in this world like setting fire and lifting up jets but they couldn’t join actual wars in the galaxy? No they just gonna let them be but sometimes they help the living Jedis? Make it make sense...
- How did Palpatine survived the fall? Who took him to this planet? If Palpatine was so powerful and amassing huge war fleets at his disposal, why it took him decades to fight back? Why so long, why now?
- Rey being a Palpatine grandchild. Sounds kinda fanfic material but ok
- “Rey have to kill Palpatine so he can merge with Rey after taking him down with hatred”. Lol were they smoking crack when writing this? What if Rey just kill him with no hatred involved, just out of pure sense of justice and a clear heart? Silly nonsense

A fun, flawed movie but better than TLJ definitely. I still enjoy it tbh.

[IMJ]

Again, just a point for people to consider - Only a true, true nerd would be directly insulted by Disney and their constituents, be told off and likened to the worst of humanity by Rian Johnson after paying him; and still pay to go see The Rise of Skywalker.

That's like the kid who gives the school bully his lunch money, then gets slapped in the face yet afterwards still tries to friend up to the POS who violated him.

Now on the other hand, if somehow you truly loved TLJ and have no gripes with Rian Johnson, then by all means pay Disney even more money.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm very wary of these reviews and score. Good movie or not, as noted, TLJ scored super, super high with critics. I suspect this is a lot of reviewers disappointed that this isn't as woke as that (or sad/betrayed that Poe doesn't make out with Finn or whatever), and punishing it accordingly.

Originally Posted by Leo656

And I admit I haven't read even half of the comics (and about, like two of the novels) from the old EU, but what I remember most was the Republic always trying to firmly establish a foothold and some remnant of the Empire always rising up to try and take over again. Maybe that did finally settle itself out, but for the most part only the names of the organizations on either side changed, the rest was fundamentally the same.

Not really. The armistice with Pellaeon (i.e., the Empire) was signed after only about 4 years of books. After that it was just years and years of New Republic (with the Imperial remnants as allies) vs. alien invaders who could block the Force.

[Vegita-San]

that's probably a VERY good reason why the early critics are trashing it.
They are so conditioned to praise wokeness, that when something isn't woke, they don't know what to do anymore.

Yeah. The Books, the early year ones where empire versus rebels.

immediatly after ROTJ, they team up against aliens a few times. and then there are the xwing books with dalla and the battle for coruscant.

the empire was far from defeated. you even had a Hutt taking control of a death star prototype... oy.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

immediatly after ROTJ, they team up against aliens a few times.

Just the once, against the Ssi-Ruuk or whatever. In "The Truce at Bakura." Then 4 years of New Republic vs. Imperial remnants, then a real truce, then years and years of New Republic vs. the Yuuzhan Vong aliens.

[ZariusTwo]

Just saw the big eye-rolling

Spoiler:

Reylo kiss

leaked on Youtube.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You can't make these things too complicated. I mean, remember how badly people reacted to all the stuff about "trade disputes" and "blockades" and "Imperial Senates" and all that in the Prequels?

One of the main problems with this stuff was that it was not portrayed very well and first episode kind of starts in the middle of an event without any explanation of what the heck is going on.

When I've first watched Phantom Menace I was like: "What is Trade Federation? What is their dispute? What's going on with politics in the galaxy?" It's quite similar to the First Order and "Rebels" in TFA - we know they are here, but how did we get here? What are those factions and what are their goals?

This is why OT was brilliant: it had provided simple setup, which needed no further explanation. But it only works once and it does not work when you are essentially in the middle of an ongoing story.

As for TROS, well, guess Disney wanted to make amends for a TLJ failure, but in the process failed even more, it seems. I am afraid, that Hack Johnson might use this as a leverage, but I hope that Kennedy would be kicked out from decision-making after this debacle, which probably preclude RJ from having anything to do with Star Wars ever again.

Not that I expect Disney will take lessons from this. Multi-billion corporations are not known for their self-awareness or a foresight.

[Andrew NDB]

So it sounds like Kelly Marie Tran's character is basically just a cameo?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm very wary of these reviews and score. Good movie or not, as noted, TLJ scored super, super high with critics. I suspect this is a lot of reviewers disappointed that this isn't as woke as that (or sad/betrayed that Poe doesn't make out with Finn or whatever), and punishing it accordingly.

Oh, absolutely. But it's still on the consumer in the free market to make these things right through financial support levels.

I mean - Disney screwed the franchise, improved their quality of life by taking the money and after that they verbally abused any fan who didn't shill for them.

At this point any support of Disney Star Wars born of "good-will purchasing" should be done & over with. Paying Disney again still only rewards them. They will have been paid not once on the good will going into TLJ, but now twice on the addiction and promise that "this one is better now".

You need that piece of flesh back from that corporation so that it trickles down to the responsible parties. And that extreme resolve isn't only because TLJ was a slap in the face, but because after they took your money for it they basically called a large cross section of people toxic life-assholes.

You need that piece of flesh back from those f'n scumbags.