Star Wars: Episode IX

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Someone above said something like TROS was a movie to clean up the mess. That's pretty accurate. This trilogy is a mess and TROS suffered for it and tried to fix it.

That was me. I believe the that despite whatever he says diplomatically to the public J.J. was trying to clean up Rian's mess for the fans. Had Trevorrow got his way I think it would have made for a best possible film than what we got. I believe that if J.J. did the whole trilogy then it would have been decent as well, but The Rise of Skywalker was held back because of The Last Jedi.

[AquaParade]

It's almost hard to remember how positive of a comeback The Force Awakens felt like at the time. Despite peoples feelings about it, at the time, it felt like a huge success with fans. And it was, compared to the divide there is now.


And personally, I found it pretty mindblowing going from ROTS to TFA. I think it's hard to argue that it wasn't a great first outing for Disney's Star Wars. Now that we have hindsight, I think the narrative is muddled, but I think they took the right approach to begin with. It was a great way for the franchise to find it's feet again.

[sdp]

TFA ****ing sucked and is the main factor and not TLJ the sequel trilogy sucks, yeah TLJ was not good but the set up was done in TFA, most of the things everybody hates, Rey being a nobody, Kylo being a darth vader clone(in fact he was worse off in TFA just a whiny darth vader, at least TLJ made him interesting), Snoke being a palpatine rip off, Solo dying before meeting Luke and Leia, Leia being a boring general instead of a kick ass Jedi, empire vs rebels making no sense, death star that destroyed all of the republic, etc etc. TFA was just a success because people chose to believe it was what they wanted and Disney could do no wrong after handling Marvel.

As far as villains it's true that they're handled horrible in the sequel trilogy, many things I've already mentioned them in previous SWs threads but why the hell not:

Kylo Ren: Interesting but at the end of the day it was just Darth Vader's story again, the only interesting part was his connection to Rey and that started in TLJ.

Captain Phasma: Awesome looking character, treated like trash in TFA, treated like even more trash in TLJ, not even in ROS, what a huge waste, coudl've been the next boba fett as she was hyped to be.

Snoke: Palpatine rip off, him dying in TLJ was indeed the best thing that could've happened to Snoke, at least he had no purpose but to be a puppet of palpatine, I'd rather have that than just Palpatine 2.0 but not palpatine.

Sith Troopers: meh, don't care that they suck.

General Hex: Boring character, boring death.

New General: Interesting but too little too late, I don't even know his name.

What was the threat again? Why did the Empire/first order never die after the republic reformed? why? why?

There are still people saying that TLJ was glorious and ROS sucks because it didn't follow up on TLJ. Follow up on what? What mental gymnastics are they even doing to actually believe those words they type?

[Shark_Blade]

Reylo incest family tree

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Reylo incest family tree
https://i.imgur.com/MKhbyfH.jpg

Whatever. I'd never condone this **** on earth, but in a galaxy far away? Let's get weird. It's boring enough that half the characters we meet speak English.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

It's almost hard to remember how positive of a comeback The Force Awakens felt like at the time. Despite peoples feelings about it, at the time, it felt like a huge success with fans. And it was, compared to the divide there is now.


And personally, I found it pretty mindblowing going from ROTS to TFA. I think it's hard to argue that it wasn't a great first outing for Disney's Star Wars. Now that we have hindsight, I think the narrative is muddled, but I think they took the right approach to begin with. It was a great way for the franchise to find it's feet again.

TFA was a dead wrong approach, IMO, though it set the stage for something that could have been serviceable, at least. TLJ did nothing with the setup.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by sdp

TFA was just a success because people chose to believe it was what they wanted and Disney could do no wrong after handling Marvel.

This is where you lose me. I bought a ticket and the blu-ray, not because I was brainwashed or deceiving myself. I just enjoyed the movie and supported it, helping lead to it's success.

I'm not negating any of your criticisms of the film itself though.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

TFA was a dead wrong approach, IMO, though it set the stage for something that could have been serviceable, at least. TLJ did nothing with the setup.

Fair enough. I feel that a safe bet was sort of what they needed at the time, but our perspectives on the franchise are different, I think, and I'm fine admitting you probably know more about the property than I do. So your opinion is arguably worth more, but yeah.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by IMJ

To any critical thinkers here, I would say to consider this, even if only for a minute....

Consider a film's marketing budget and the current RT fan score and how many ratings popped up as of yesterday. Now consider that huge marketing budget against the fact that Disney could buy out only 30 seats at early afternoon showings at as many theaters as ssayyyyy.... even only $60,000 could buy them. Think about how many shill reviews that converts into from their marketing department. Rotten Tomatoes is a gigantic industry lie.

Now consider the "critics". Many of those critics took what was basically a political messaging position on TLJ. This movie disregards TLJ. So by proxy they "have to" support their initial review for "integrity" and trash this one. "Have to" as a function of being certain kinds of people.

I am sorry, but I don't buy it.
Unless Disney ruled by fanatics, which is unlikely, since they've back pedaled on a lot of TLJ stuff, I don't see what they can get from allowing to **** on their own movie and losing colossal money and reputation in the process.
It's a definition of shooting oneself in a foot.

Besides, it does nothing to make TLJ better in the eyes of people who hated it. It just validates their opinion that people in charge of TROS inside Disney also hate TLJ.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

That was me. I believe the that despite whatever he says diplomatically to the public J.J. was trying to clean up Rian's mess for the fans. Had Trevorrow got his way I think it would have made for a best possible film than what we got. I believe that if J.J. did the whole trilogy then it would have been decent as well, but The Rise of Skywalker was held back because of The Last Jedi.

Most of this movie continued off of TLJ though. Killing off Snoke was a great idea because he was a crap character to begin with. Rey's parents wound up being important by proxy anyway.

The whole Rey/Kylo Ren stuff from TLJ continues directly into this movie, so I don't see how it was any different. Same with Luke being dead only given Rey encouragement to not stay at the islands.

Only noticeable thing this movie really did was turn Rose into a complete background character, and I honestly feel bad for the actress because she basically became an extra in the movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Fair enough. I feel that a safe bet was sort of what they needed at the time, but our perspectives on the franchise are different, I think, and I'm fine admitting you probably know more about the property than I do. So your opinion is arguably worth more, but yeah.

It was not what they needed at the time, it was what Kathleen Kennedy thought they needed at the time. She created the narrative that Star Wars and the franchise was so damaged after the prequel trilogy that they had no choice but to go back to Empire vs. Rebels and a remake of ANH, and JJ was her hired thug to make it happen.

The narrative is false because the PT made a ton of money, has plenty of fans, and even most of the fans that dislike them respect them for trying something original. Plus the PT spawned the "Clone Wars" cartoon that is fairly universally liked.

[CyberCubed]

People have said this movie retroactively makes the entire 9 movie series now the saga of Palpatine, rather than the story of Skywalkers. And it's true.

The entire Skywalker line is dead and died with Kylo Ren. Rey is a Palpatine and his blood lives on through her. Palpatine won, he trolled 3 generations of Skywalkers and now he has a granddaughter as the strongest force wielder in the galaxy. She may not be part of the dark side, but she's his legacy.

I wonder if this ever came into J.J's head. Rey calling herself a Skywalker at the end of the movie doesn't make it so.

[Shark_Blade]

Theater’s mad reaction when Rey revealed her full name as “Rey Skywalker”.

https://twitter.com/quakesaltzman/st...689379840?s=21

[ranger_scout]

Did I think this one of the greatest sci-fi and space movies ever made? However, I am still glad that I decided to go see it in theaters. Questions were answered and overall things were wrapped up nicely.

Spoiler:

Leia’s death handled very well. She used the last bit of her force energy to save her son from the dark side. I also thought the unused footage of her training Rey and the scenes of her on the base for the story just fine. Luke also returned to being the character we remembered from the original trilogy. Seeing Han again was a nice little surprise. Rey learned that she was a Palpatine, but she was able to resist going down a path that her grandfather had taken. Her parents would be very proud of her. Ben/Kylo Ren made a noble sacrifice in the end. Lando wasn’t really given a whole lot to do, but I was glad that he was able to take part in some of the action. Poe and Finn continued to be solid heroes. I do wish that they hadn’t but Rose in the background so much.

[Andrew NDB]

Only thing I had trouble believing with Leia was...

Spoiler:

... how she apparently knew all along that Rey was a Palpatine. Like, really? That first scene where Rey walks up to Leia in TFA, Leia is really mentally going "oh wow, Palpatine's granddaughter"? Eh... I dunno about that.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Only thing I had trouble believing with Leia was...

Spoiler:

... how she apparently knew all along that Rey was a Palpatine. Like, really? That first scene where Rey walks up to Leia in TFA, Leia is really mentally going "oh wow, Palpatine's granddaughter"? Eh... I dunno about that.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but at the same time, Leia also said that she had always known Luke was her brother, while I can't say I see that in A New Hope.

I don't think it's so much an immediate realization, but a gradual understanding.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I am sorry, but I don't buy it.
Unless Disney ruled by fanatics, which is unlikely, since they've back pedaled on a lot of TLJ stuff, I don't see what they can get from allowing to **** on their own movie and losing colossal money and reputation in the process.
It's a definition of shooting oneself in a foot.

Besides, it does nothing to make TLJ better in the eyes of people who hated it. It just validates their opinion that people in charge of TROS inside Disney also hate TLJ.

******** on their own movie? You don't understand, my friend. The argument is that they buy tickets to leave positive VIEWER reviews,not negative critic reviews...

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by IMJ

******** on their own movie? You don't understand, my friend. The argument is that they buy tickets to leave positive VIEWER reviews,not negative critic reviews...

I don't think it help very much.

[Leo656]

Honestly, when the smoke clears, I think for as much as people crap on it, TFA is going to be the clear "winner" of this trilogy. It doesn't try to do much but it succeeds beautifully at what it DOES try to do, and sometimes you have to meet the filmmakers halfway whether you agree with their creative choices or not. Retread or not, the story made sense, the characters were likeable, and the ending left things wide-open for the next two movies to do all kinds of awesome sh*t with the foundation that movie set.

Then TLJ fumbled and ROS over-corrected. Both of those movies are full of plot holes, filler, and needless junk. Like Cubed said, pretty much every character we were introduced to in TFA seemed like they MIGHT get to do some Really Cool Sh*t... and they never did. But at least it SEEMED like they had a lot of potential.

It's like how "Secret of the Ooze" maybe isn't a terrible TMNT movie, but it's a terrible follow-up to the first one. TMNT II and III don't retroactively make the first movie worse, but man, watching the first one you could write a dozen sequels in your head that were much better and nothing, NOTHING like the ones we actually got.

Same deal. TFA sets up a really awesome little game board full of neat little pieces, and you as a viewer are all like "Okay, maybe I would have done things differently but we've got a lot to work with going forward. Let's see what happens next!" And then it's a f*cking popcorn fart. Someone just kicks the table over and sends the pieces flying, sets up NEW pieces (I barely got to look at the old ones and you're giving me new ones?), and tells you "Forget it, I know we set up the other game, and it took like two hours to set up, but forget it, now we're playing Chutes and Ladders because I said so." And you half-heartedly play along, but you still wish you were playing the other game because you had barely even gotten started with it yet. And then they do it AGAIN halfway through the new game, and now you just want it to be over so everyone can go home and you can read. This was not the experience you signed up for.

It's a shame. I think this all could've been great even if TFA stayed exactly the same. Yeah, they could have told a Brand New Story or done a Brand New Thing but Disney was scared of breaking their new toy, so what we got was fine for what it was. Too familiar or not, they STILL could have used that exact same movie and given us an awesome trilogy out of it.

ALL they had to do was sit down with a pen and paper and PLAN for a goddamn trilogy. That's ALL they had to do.

I mean, I know that ever since Empire, a huge part of the movies has been introducing new characters just to sell more action figures, and that's fine. It's fine! It's not only a part of Star Wars, it's become a part of movies in general. But... geez, this series was REALLY bad about it, because they framed a lot of these characters as if they were MORE than just a new toy, and... they weren't. SO many characters were clearly presented as being important, and in the end, NOPE, just an action figure. Snoke, Phasma, BB-8, Knights of Ren... all just New Toys. And that's a little annoying.

I will say, however, that I actually like Kylo's mask. Mostly because that boy's face is 80% nose. What an unfortunate-looking fellow. So yeah, let him keep it, it's fine.

[Andrew NDB]

TFA will emerge as the most pure of the sequel trilogy only by the virtue that it was shot well, set up a whole bunch of stuff, and left it at that. JJ did his job and walked away, expecting to have nothing else to do with anything. Others were expected to pick up what he was throwing down in 8 and 9.

But that's all.

[AquaParade]

The one thing I want from this trilogy is more Kylo Ren. I thought he was sort of a dork when I first saw him in TFA, but the character has grown on me, and Adam Driver has proven himself to he an excellent actor. Really.hoping they can give him a well written spin-off series.

I was all about Captain Phasma but they somehow blew that twice.

My least favorite thing in ROS were the fakeout deaths. So tired of those. Even when done in spectacular fashion, they are frustrating conceptually. Here, they hardly attempt to even make it worth the payoff.