FOREVER WAR - now it depends on YOU!

[MikeandRaph87]

Rereading the series I have come to realize that it is one big narrative similar to IDW. There might be a few throwaway flashbacks like #41's frame story,45,58's frame story,71,72, but overall it really is. It appears Forever War would have finished the story. I understand the two bigwigs at Archie's concern about it getting to be too much. I think Dreamland's gross and creepy plot with living brains and robozombies was too much for me in 1st grade. Though it resolved itself with a happy ending. I have a feeling that Forever War will right the Future Turtles timeline if not improve it like reviving the Mutanimals. They should have heard the whole pitch and then made suggestions of how to tone it down for 7 year olds before getting to the happy resolution.

[Leo656]

Not everything needs to or should be toned down for 7 year olds.

A lot of the stuff in the Archie book blew me away when I was around 9 or 10 but that's exactly what I liked about it. Already outgrown the one-dimensional slapstick shenanigans of the cartoon show by the time the first movie came out, if the Archie book hadn't predominantly skewed "darker" then I doubt I would have even still cared about the brand at all by the time the second movie came out.

I don't read it as much as I should (and I'm still missing a few issues), but I'd lay about 80% of the reason at TMNTA's feet as to why I even care a tiny bit about TMNT in the year 2020. Without it, or if it had remained locked into what the cartoon was, I almost certainly would have abandoned the franchise by no later than 1992. Heavy-handed eco-preaching aside, the book was exactly what it needed to be.

[Andrew NDB]

TMNTA: the only good thing to come out of Fred Wolf OR the only version of Fred Wolf that is any good. You decide.

[Leo656]

I'll be a little nicer and say "By far one of the absolute best things." I mean anyone who disagrees with that assessment is plain and simply wrong.

[Galactus]

Yeah I credit both the Archie book and the 1990 movie for leaving an impression of TMNT that stayed with me that it otherwise wouldn't have if I'd just known the cartoon.

Maybe if the show had kept a tone more in line with the first season or the second or even the more action oriented season 3 episodes I might have a better opinion of it today. I do appreciate the sillier episodes but once they started facing random mad scientists with goofy rays on the regular I mentally checked out.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Yeah I credit both the Archie book and the 1990 movie for leaving an impression of TMNT that stayed with me that it otherwise wouldn't have if I'd just known the cartoon.

Maybe if the show had kept a tone more in line with the first season or the second or even the more action oriented season 3 episodes I might have a better opinion of it today. I do appreciate the sillier episodes but once they started facing random mad scientists with goofy rays on the regular I mentally checked out.

Those are the CBS ones that don't hold up today and have the charm of the memorable ones. The amount of random mad scientist and mobsters was annoying. I wanted Shredder, Rat King, or evil mutants. Of those two categories the only exception was Big Louie. Episodes I never go back to.

It was Dreamland that was too much for me with the robo-zombies and the living brains being sought to profit off the dreamless that was grossing me out at age 7. I remember being glad the arc was over and it was a happy ending after the visuals grossing me out. The Mutanimals being randomly shot up by no names and the eco preaching did not bother me. It made me realize I was smart enough to know at that young age someone is writing a political opinion. It was the era of Very Special Episodes and I saw through it. Yet it was the gross nature described above that made me relieved the arc was over and wonder if the two Archie bigwigs were thinking the same thing. Just because the Future Turtles were involved it seems like they assumed Dreamland was going to be repeated which Forever War was not. As an adult rereading it I still did not care for it aside from the Hitler sequence I appreciate now. I did see TMNT Adventures suggesting that it can grow up with you while still looking like you know it to be. I was only in 3rd grade when it was canceled suddenly.

[LUIS]

Thinking about it I would totally love an adventures cartoon, less eco preaching of course and make some arcs a little stronger.

[Leo656]

Yeah, the cancellation really struck me dumb at the time, too. I would have been... let's see, when was Year of the Turtle? 95/96? So about 13-ish. I read Wizard sometimes but was never really into keeping up with "the business" at that time in my life, so I only vaguely understood why some books got cancelled. I just sort of assumed that something like TMNT was so popular that it was "bulletproof" and would be around forever, or if not literally then for a long time. I still saw it on the racks at every 7-11 and corner store and a lot of my friends all bought it, so I assumed it was still pretty popular.

Then the two issues that came out right after the Moon Eyes saga were so out of left-field and disconnected with the main plot, a plot which I'd been hoping to see resolved somehow, that it kinda threw me for a loop, and then nothing, and then Year of the Turtle, which wasn't bad but it gave me a really bad feeling due to how completely different it was from the "real" Archie book. But I was like "Okay, if this is the new status quo, I guess it's better than nothing." And then nothing. What a bummer.

[MikeandRaph87]

Was there anything planned beyond Forever War or was it meant to be the final story in the continuity. I agree Year of The Turtle was good, not great and I would preferred Forever War between the two. Odd how even after the bigwigs got what they wanted the replacement contuinity did not go into to be an ongoing? Turttlemania was dying, Mirage was indifferent of a non-Mirage focused incarnation, Archie executives assumed it would be ine less headache since TMNT was no longer on top making the money it used to?

It is odd how the Future Turtles are at the center of my favorite arc Future Shark Trilogy and my least favorite arc Dreamland. That should have tipped off Archie and gone ahead with Forever War.


When is the likely full release? I need to decide the format Ibwill buy.

[Galactus]

Being in the UK we were somewhat behind with our reprints but I knew the writing was on the wall for Adventures. I could see the Turtlemania was waning and I remember taking my copy to the counter of my local newsagent and the lady saying "I used to sell loads of turtles comics now you're the only boy who buys them". Then the comic went from coming out fortnightly to monthly which was an obvious bad sign.

From what I remember from Murphy's blog Archie became dissatisfied with his approach to the book (I'm guessing the spiritual and environmental messages) and when they saw that the Forever War was another return to the future world flooded by global warming they hit the roof. Murphy felt that his work was unappreciated and was thinking of quitting and went to Peter Laird. He admitted that he hoped Laird would talk him out of it but instead Laird responded with something like "sorry you feel that way but you got to do what you've got to do".

Another factor was that Archie knew Mirage was relaunching their book in colour and was worried it could take off and be competition for their book and wanted their own book to have a more 'mainstream' style like a Marvel and DC book and I think Year Of The Turtle was their attempt at doing that.

[Lordmylar06]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I understand the two bigwigs at Archie's concern about it getting to be too much. I think Dreamland's gross and creepy plot with living brains and robozombies was too much for me in 1st grade.

Part of what made TMNTA so enjoyable for me is that I grew up and the story kept me engaged. The Archie TMNT comics ran for 6 years and some change. I started reading them when I was 8 years old, and by the time it ended I was 14.
In order to keep your readership engaged, you have to grow with your audience. TMNT Adventures was doing that in my opinion. I do think that Archie could have implemented a teen line to facilitate that story, but back then I bet they weren't as open to the concept.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'll be a little nicer and say "By far one of the absolute best things." I mean anyone who disagrees with that assessment is plain and simply wrong.

TMNT isn't automatically better as an edgy mature franchise. It's most impressionable years were when it was the opposite of that, and that will never change.

It sucks some fans here are still bitter about that and choose to villify the show when it delighted millions and will always be the benchmark by which every other interpretation is compared to. And none of them will ever match the ten year run. If anything, the ongoing resentment smacks more of cultural jealousy than anything else.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

TMNT isn't automatically better as an edgy mature franchise. It's most impressionable years were when it was the opposite of that, and that will never change.

In it's most impressionable years it operated as both (Mirage and Fred Wolf) as well as varying degrees in between (the 1990 movie and the Archie book).

Also the most successful seasons of the Fred Wolf show was when it had a smidgen of seriousness. You could make a very valid case for the idea that every time that TMNT got too silly it suffered commercially.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

TMNT isn't automatically better as an edgy mature franchise. It's most impressionable years were when it was the opposite of that, and that will never change.

It sucks some fans here are still bitter about that and choose to villify the show when it delighted millions and will always be the benchmark by which every other interpretation is compared to. And none of them will ever match the ten year run. If anything, the ongoing resentment smacks more of cultural jealousy than anything else.

I'd say that anyone who would consider the Archie TMNT book "edgy" is probably a bit sensitive.

[MikeandRaph87]

What is the likely release of #76 and #77? Also, what are the purchasing options again? While I decided to wait for the fifth issue to be available I wanted to see what the options were. The individual issues are not the same size as Archie's series, correct? Also, are they single color covers like I noticed on your Ebay offering? I have always preferred individual issues but if they are going to be different than the rest of the series and extra content is in other options I will go for that.

[Demon-Alukard]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What is the likely release of #76 and #77? Also, what are the purchasing options again? While I decided to wait for the fifth issue to be available I wanted to see what the options were. The individual issues are not the same size as Archie's series, correct? Also, are they single color covers like I noticed on your Ebay offering? I have always preferred individual issues but if they are going to be different than the rest of the series and extra content is in other options I will go for that.

You can email me for the details: [email protected]
We are working on the new pages little by little, a bit slowly when I expected in the beginning, but anyway. Now it mostly depends on Chris Allan's speed. I still hope to finish the story in 2020.

[Turtle_Bot]

Originally Posted by Demon-Alukard

You can email me for the details: [email protected]
We are working on the new pages little by little, a bit slowly when I expected in the beginning, but anyway. Now it mostly depends on Chris Allan's speed. I still hope to finish the story in 2020.

Hi hi.

I ordered the hardcover version of the Forever War graphic novel back in August '19. I don't know if the timeline for the hardcover version is any different, but, what's the updated fulfillment time expectation for people like me?

Thanks in advance! Really looking forward to it!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Turtle_Bot

Hi hi.

I ordered the hardcover version of the Forever War graphic novel back in August '19. I don't know if the timeline for the hardcover version is any different, but, what's the updated fulfillment time expectation for people like me?

Thanks in advance! Really looking forward to it!

I second this. Also, close to #77's completion could we get a teaser of a list of characters?

[Weapons@theready]

Ordered my ashcans today!

[MikeandRaph87]

In addition to the above, $85 for the five issue collection as a hardcover. A bit steep but I will go for it of the 3 options because it will be read more than once and softcovers collect wear easily. Can we pay via PayPal?