Ninja Turtles vs. Thundercats - Page 4

*heretic888* · 10-29-2003, 10:19 AM

Indeed, tetsu. Indeed.

As for the "raw power beats skill" thing, i suggest a couple of you pick up a few Batman comics here or there. Or, better yet, see how Batman fares in the JL cartoon.

The fact is that the Turtles are very, very, very skilled at what they do. In the TMNT RPG, all four of them have a 98% skill in Prowl (moving around without being seen or heard). That basically means there is between a 1% and 2% chance that any of them could actually be detected (in good conditions that is; meaning, fairly dark with lots of terrain to hide behind). Simple truth is you can't fight what you can't see --- that rule, of course, does not really apply to the Turtles who in a recent issue of the Mirage series demonstrated they can fight just as easily blinded (kinda blows Lion-o's "Sight Beyond Sight" out of the water).

Additionally, the Turtles are just better fighters. I mean, look at the kinda stuff they've done. They are much, much more skilled in hand-to-hand. Easily.

That's all for now.

*Bowser_Koopa* · 10-29-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

The fact is that the Turtles are very, very, very skilled at what they do. In the TMNT RPG, all four of them have a 98% skill in Prowl (moving around without being seen or heard). That basically means there is between a 1% and 2% chance that any of them could actually be detected (in good conditions that is; meaning, fairly dark with lots of terrain to hide behind). Simple truth is you can't fight what you can't see --- that rule, of course, does not really apply to the Turtles who in a recent issue of the Mirage series demonstrated they can fight just as easily blinded (kinda blows Lion-o's "Sight Beyond Sight" out of the water).

Additionally, the Turtles are just better fighters. I mean, look at the kinda stuff they've done. They are much, much more skilled in hand-to-hand. Easily.

That's all for now.

that just reminds me of the movie, when they hid anywhere they could when april ordered a pizza, and pizza boy didn't realiza as far as i remember (haven't seen the movies in a while), all i know is that they hid with ninja skill

*heretic888* · 10-29-2003, 12:54 PM

I think most people's problems in scenarios like this (errrr...WHO'D WIN IN A FIGHT!!) is what happens if one side engages in unconventional warfare. The fight could easily go the Turtles' way if they decide to be sneaky and use smoke bombs, hit-and-run tactics, stealth, guerilla warfare, or even set up traps and ambushes. They would literally slaughter the 'Cats (or most other groups for that matter).

I once heard a saying that I liked: "There are only two types of people in a fight: cheaters and losers."

I think that typifies this situation quite well. The Turtles strike me as more likely the kind that would "cheat" in order to get out of the fight unscathed.

Of course, none of this even takes into account that the Turtles could probably take the 'Cats in hand to hand. Unless the 'Cats could use their vehicles or take advantage of the long-range powers of some of their weapons, then they'd die. Plain and simple. And, even then, there's a good chance the Turtles would be able to avoid their weapons long enough to hide or sneak away, and thus ambush them later.

Think about it.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 10-29-2003, 10:29 PM

I think the REAL issue is "Who is making them fight each-other?". I mean, they're both good-guys. There is some sort of darker force at work here, some mutual enemy of both the TMNT and the Thundercats is trying to get them to destroy each-other!

It would be better if they teamed up to track-down this enemy instead of fighting each-other.

~~Leo656~~ · 10-29-2003, 10:42 PM

Could just be a misunderstanding. When the 'Cats show up in Metropolis in the Superman/Thundercats crossover, they *appear* to be hostile, and the fact that they don't speak our language doesn't help matters much. Thus, the typical comic book "Big Character Misunderstanding" that inevitably leads to the "Big Crossover Fight Scene". It never fails.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 10-29-2003, 10:52 PM

Which usually ends up with "The Big Character Draw", and "The Big Character Team-Up", if I'm not mistaken.

~~Leo656~~ · 10-29-2003, 11:24 PM

Indubitably! Neither side can "win" or "lose", because neither side (and neither publishing company for that matter) can afford to look bad in the least! The only way to do it legit would be to have a fan voting like they did with DC vs Marvel, and... well... the fans screwed that up a few times too... I mean c'mon, Wolverine over Lobo? But at least Superman beat the Hulk, and Aquaman dropped a killer whale on Namor's head while he was filibustering... bwahahahaaaa....

*That Matt Guy* · 10-29-2003, 11:29 PM

Mumm-Ra would come in and finish all of them off. The End.

**GK Punk** · 10-29-2003, 11:32 PM

Hell yeah Matt, Hell yeah....

~~Leo656~~ · 10-29-2003, 11:40 PM

True... there aint NOTHIN' the TMNT could do against MUMM-RA, THE EVERLIVING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 10-30-2003, 02:31 AM

They'd have to beat him BEFORE he transforms!

*Bowser_Koopa* · 10-30-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

The only way to do it legit would be to have a fan voting like they did with DC vs Marvel, and... well... the fans screwed that up a few times too...

like when they made ppl vote to see if the joker should kill robin......u had a short life robin

*heretic888* · 10-30-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

I think the REAL issue is "Who is making them fight each-other?".

No one is necessarily forcing them to fight each other. It could just be a simple misunderstanding.... the Thundercats, for example, would probably think the TMNT look pretty damn similar to the "evil mutants" on their planet. And, if the 'Cats were plopped in the middle of New York, they would most likely be attacked by some freaked-out citizens, defend themselves, and the TMNT would jump in right there to try and stop things from gettin' outta hand. There are dozens of possibilities, really.

Quote:

I mean, they're both good-guys. There is some sort of darker force at work here, some mutual enemy of both the TMNT and the Thundercats is trying to get them to destroy each-other!

Uhh.... no, not necessarily. Just because two groups of people are "good guys" doesn't mean they don't disagree, have misunderstandings, or duke it out. Happens all the time, in real life and in fantasy.

Quote:

It would be better if they teamed up to track-down this enemy instead of fighting each-other.

*chuckles* Nah, it'd be better to focus on the battle-royale instead of on some cheesy background story with Mumm-ra and the resurrected-and/or-cloned Shredder team up.

Quote:

Which usually ends up with "The Big Character Draw", and "The Big Character Team-Up", if I'm not mistaken.

*sigh* Yeah... if you ask me, that is cliche, kinda corny, and cowardly. The writers turn it into a "oh, we're really on the same side so let's not fight anymore" so no one can be declared a "winner". Thus, no controversy. Lame.

Quote:

True... there aint NOTHIN' the TMNT could do against MUMM-RA, THE EVERLIVING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....

You are aware the Mirage TMNT defeated a GOD (Loki), right?? Not to mention... Cronos, the Grendel, Cerebus, some swamp-demon thingy, and some psycho-scorpion-tail-thingy.... all in one day, too.

If you're gonna tell me Mumm-ra is more powerful than the Grendel, I am forced to chuckle.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 10-30-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heretic 888

You are aware the Mirage TMNT defeated a GOD (Loki), right?? Not to mention... Cronos, the Grendel, Cerebus, some swamp-demon thingy, and some psycho-scorpion-tail-thingy.... all in one day, too.

If you're gonna tell me Mumm-ra is more powerful than the Grendel, I am forced to chuckle.

Good Point, and BTW I LIKE cheesy team-up stories, but I'd want the battle before the team-up to be fierce.

~~Leo656~~ · 10-30-2003, 09:40 PM

Well, let's be fair and say that if anyone besides, you know, the people who CREATED the franchise were involved with the writing of that story, there is most likely very little chance the TMNT would stand a chance against any deity or godlike figure because it quite frankly just doesn't work that way.

I mean, next someone will be trying to convince me that the TMNT, through their exceptional stealth and martial arts skills, could, together, beat Superman in a fight. Not Special Superman, either, Brother Tetsu! I mean SUPERMAN, as in, the guy who could see them even if they were hiding in shadow, the guy who wouldn't even NEED to see them because he could hear their hearts beating, the guy who could physically not be harmed by anything they did... and yet, I just know SOMEONE is gonna come in here and argue, in all seriousness, that the TMNT could beat Superman in a fight. Such is the case with people who make it a habit to avoid logic and common sense.

It's like I've said in the many, many "Batman vs Superman" debates I've been in over the years... first of all, whoever "won" would weigh entirely on whose book they were fighting in, and secondly, Superman would win, because Superman once took down the entire JLA **by himself**, and Batman had his precious Kryptonite with him and that's just all there is to it. There's fantasy, ("hey, wouldn't it be neat if Batman beat Superman in a fight?") and then there's reality (Superman would probably just melt the ground under Batman's feet into tar and create a vortex around Bats at super-speed, sucking out his oxygen and rendering him unconscious, from a safe distance where the Kryptonite wouldn't reach him... at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....).

And that said, the reality is that the way the characters are written and the abilities they possess, the TMNT as written by ANYONE besides Peter Laird would simply not look very good against the Thundercats in any kind of a physical altercation. Again, it's not a knock against the TMNT, it's just the way the characters are written. Just like Wolverine could never beat Lobo because Lobo is completely invulnerable (way moreso than Wolverine), I honestly believe that the 'Cats' magic puts them well over the edge. That mixed with the TMNT likely not being familiar with the 'Cats before battling them, and I think it'd be a tough-fought victory for the 'Cats, but a victory nonetheless.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 10-31-2003, 12:02 AM

The fact that we've all been able to come up with believable scenarios for both sides plus what Leo said about it depending on who wrote the story, plus Heretic saying the Mirage TMNT would win but the Cartoon TMNT would lose, pretty much says what I've been saying all along.

IT'S ANYBODY'S FIGHT!!!!

BTW Not EVERYONE would lose against Lobo. I happen to think Al Bundy is the only truly unbeatable character in all of fiction!

Click HERE for details

~~Leo656~~ · 10-31-2003, 12:43 AM

Well of course not everyone would lose against Lobo... Superman beat him, as did Guy Gardner... but it's almost always a case of either tricking Lobo into thinking he's won when he hasn't (cuz for all his invulnerability the guy's about as dumb as a sack of hair), or Lobo just getting bored and going off to find a better fight. Since his character was created without any real weaknesses, along with the power to never be killed (whenever he "dies", every drop of his blood can grow into a new host body, sometimes he comes back as a woman, or a squirrel, or a snot nosed "Young Justice" brat), it's pretty much impossible to beat the guy outright.

Yes, characters that powerful are one-dimensional and kind of boring, but hey, it was the 80s. That kinda stuff was in. People didn't want plot, they wanted blood and sex and scruffy characters with ripped leather and ill-shaven facial hair

**GK Punk** · 10-31-2003, 12:48 AM

Are we forgetting Rob Van Dam?

"ONE OF A KIND!"

**Kali** · 10-31-2003, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

at least it's what I would do if *I* were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....)

Dude, don't scare me like that! That ain't funny...

BTW, my vote goes to Burt Gummer.

Meira-Bates · 10-31-2003, 05:07 PM

Ok...I like the TMNT and the TCs, though I like TMNT more. I agree the TCs would most likely win...but a few factors here... I can't remember how, but the sword of omens was stolen once, yes? See where I'm going with this? The TC's powerfull weapons aren't ammune to someone sneaking them away...and who's good at sneaking? Ninja! Anyhoo...other than that, there's Snarf, like someone else mentioned.

However...I feel that in a fight with no things changed (meaning none of that who has this or who has that), just the original teams (meaning Splinter and the turtles against the characters TCs started with)...no matter where they were (unless it was some place that kept people from using super human abilities like the invisability ect) the thunder cats would be more likely to win, but the TMNT could still gain the upper hand somehow.

10-29-2003, 10:19 AM	#61
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hee Indeed, tetsu. Indeed. As for the "raw power beats skill" thing, i suggest a couple of you pick up a few Batman comics here or there. Or, better yet, see how Batman fares in the JL cartoon. The fact is that the Turtles are very, very, very skilled at what they do. In the TMNT RPG, all four of them have a 98% skill in Prowl (moving around without being seen or heard). That basically means there is between a 1% and 2% chance that any of them could actually be detected (in good conditions that is; meaning, fairly dark with lots of terrain to hide behind). Simple truth is you can't fight what you can't see --- that rule, of course, does not really apply to the Turtles who in a recent issue of the Mirage series demonstrated they can fight just as easily blinded (kinda blows Lion-o's "Sight Beyond Sight" out of the water). Additionally, the Turtles are just better fighters. I mean, look at the kinda stuff they've done. They are much, much more skilled in hand-to-hand. Easily. That's all for now. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-29-2003, 12:54 PM	#63
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm I think most people's problems in scenarios like this (errrr...WHO'D WIN IN A FIGHT!!) is what happens if one side engages in unconventional warfare. The fight could easily go the Turtles' way if they decide to be sneaky and use smoke bombs, hit-and-run tactics, stealth, guerilla warfare, or even set up traps and ambushes. They would literally slaughter the 'Cats (or most other groups for that matter). I once heard a saying that I liked: "There are only two types of people in a fight: cheaters and losers." I think that typifies this situation quite well. The Turtles strike me as more likely the kind that would "cheat" in order to get out of the fight unscathed. Of course, none of this even takes into account that the Turtles could probably take the 'Cats in hand to hand. Unless the 'Cats could use their vehicles or take advantage of the long-range powers of some of their weapons, then they'd die. Plain and simple. And, even then, there's a good chance the Turtles would be able to avoid their weapons long enough to hide or sneak away, and thus ambush them later. Think about it. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-29-2003, 10:29 PM	#64
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I think the REAL issue is "Who is making them fight each-other?". I mean, they're both good-guys. There is some sort of darker force at work here, some mutual enemy of both the TMNT and the Thundercats is trying to get them to destroy each-other! It would be better if they teamed up to track-down this enemy instead of fighting each-other. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

10-29-2003, 10:52 PM	#66
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	Which usually ends up with "The Big Character Draw", and "The Big Character Team-Up", if I'm not mistaken. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

10-30-2003, 02:31 AM	#71
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	They'd have to beat him BEFORE he transforms! __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

10-29-2003, 10:42 PM	#65
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Could just be a misunderstanding. When the 'Cats show up in Metropolis in the Superman/Thundercats crossover, they appear to be hostile, and the fact that they don't speak our language doesn't help matters much. Thus, the typical comic book "Big Character Misunderstanding" that inevitably leads to the "Big Crossover Fight Scene". It never fails.

10-29-2003, 11:24 PM	#67
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Indubitably! Neither side can "win" or "lose", because neither side (and neither publishing company for that matter) can afford to look bad in the least! The only way to do it legit would be to have a fan voting like they did with DC vs Marvel, and... well... the fans screwed that up a few times too... I mean c'mon, Wolverine over Lobo? But at least Superman beat the Hulk, and Aquaman dropped a killer whale on Namor's head while he was filibustering... bwahahahaaaa....

10-29-2003, 11:29 PM	#68
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	Mumm-Ra would come in and finish all of them off. The End.

10-29-2003, 11:32 PM	#69
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	Hell yeah Matt, Hell yeah....

10-29-2003, 11:40 PM	#70
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	True... there aint NOTHIN' the TMNT could do against MUMM-RA, THE EVERLIVING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....

10-30-2003, 09:40 PM	#75
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Well, let's be fair and say that if anyone besides, you know, the people who CREATED the franchise were involved with the writing of that story, there is most likely very little chance the TMNT would stand a chance against any deity or godlike figure because it quite frankly just doesn't work that way. I mean, next someone will be trying to convince me that the TMNT, through their exceptional stealth and martial arts skills, could, together, beat Superman in a fight. Not Special Superman, either, Brother Tetsu! I mean SUPERMAN, as in, the guy who could see them even if they were hiding in shadow, the guy who wouldn't even NEED to see them because he could hear their hearts beating, the guy who could physically not be harmed by anything they did... and yet, I just know SOMEONE is gonna come in here and argue, in all seriousness, that the TMNT could beat Superman in a fight. Such is the case with people who make it a habit to avoid logic and common sense. It's like I've said in the many, many "Batman vs Superman" debates I've been in over the years... first of all, whoever "won" would weigh entirely on whose book they were fighting in, and secondly, Superman would win, because Superman once took down the entire JLA by himself, and Batman had his precious Kryptonite with him and that's just all there is to it. There's fantasy, ("hey, wouldn't it be neat if Batman beat Superman in a fight?") and then there's reality (Superman would probably just melt the ground under Batman's feet into tar and create a vortex around Bats at super-speed, sucking out his oxygen and rendering him unconscious, from a safe distance where the Kryptonite wouldn't reach him... at least it's what I would do if I were Superman.... and, one day, God willing, I will be....). And that said, the reality is that the way the characters are written and the abilities they possess, the TMNT as written by ANYONE besides Peter Laird would simply not look very good against the Thundercats in any kind of a physical altercation. Again, it's not a knock against the TMNT, it's just the way the characters are written. Just like Wolverine could never beat Lobo because Lobo is completely invulnerable (way moreso than Wolverine), I honestly believe that the 'Cats' magic puts them well over the edge. That mixed with the TMNT likely not being familiar with the 'Cats before battling them, and I think it'd be a tough-fought victory for the 'Cats, but a victory nonetheless.

10-31-2003, 12:02 AM	#76
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	The fact that we've all been able to come up with believable scenarios for both sides plus what Leo said about it depending on who wrote the story, plus Heretic saying the Mirage TMNT would win but the Cartoon TMNT would lose, pretty much says what I've been saying all along. IT'S ANYBODY'S FIGHT!!!! BTW Not EVERYONE would lose against Lobo. I happen to think Al Bundy is the only truly unbeatable character in all of fiction! Click HERE for details __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

10-31-2003, 12:43 AM	#77
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Well of course not everyone would lose against Lobo... Superman beat him, as did Guy Gardner... but it's almost always a case of either tricking Lobo into thinking he's won when he hasn't (cuz for all his invulnerability the guy's about as dumb as a sack of hair), or Lobo just getting bored and going off to find a better fight. Since his character was created without any real weaknesses, along with the power to never be killed (whenever he "dies", every drop of his blood can grow into a new host body, sometimes he comes back as a woman, or a squirrel, or a snot nosed "Young Justice" brat), it's pretty much impossible to beat the guy outright. Yes, characters that powerful are one-dimensional and kind of boring, but hey, it was the 80s. That kinda stuff was in. People didn't want plot, they wanted blood and sex and scruffy characters with ripped leather and ill-shaven facial hair

10-31-2003, 12:48 AM	#78
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	Are we forgetting Rob Van Dam? "ONE OF A KIND!"

10-31-2003, 05:07 PM	#80
Meira-Bates Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2003 Location: an abandoned wearhouse Posts: 1,057	Ok...I like the TMNT and the TCs, though I like TMNT more. I agree the TCs would most likely win...but a few factors here... I can't remember how, but the sword of omens was stolen once, yes? See where I'm going with this? The TC's powerfull weapons aren't ammune to someone sneaking them away...and who's good at sneaking? Ninja! Anyhoo...other than that, there's Snarf, like someone else mentioned. However...I feel that in a fight with no things changed (meaning none of that who has this or who has that), just the original teams (meaning Splinter and the turtles against the characters TCs started with)...no matter where they were (unless it was some place that kept people from using super human abilities like the invisability ect) the thunder cats would be more likely to win, but the TMNT could still gain the upper hand somehow. __________________ I'm also the winner of the award for being least likely to receive an award! O.o