Official Justice League Movie

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I imagine whatever story Snyder had planned could easily have been told with GL and MM there also.

Nah, not right out of the gate. Again, it was always supposed to be that Kal-El's example was WHY J'onn finally reveals himself. If J'onn's already a "Superman-Type Guy" who can ALSO read minds and turn invisible and shape-shift, AND he's already functioning as a super-hero by this point so early on, WHY is Superman suddenly necessary for this story? You've got a guy who can do Everything he can do and a bunch of stuff he can't. Whoops, now the story's broken. Same thing happens if you suddenly include a guy with a "magic" ring that can do absolutely anything.

The ENTIRE arc of Snyder's DC films was about Superman's emergence, its effect on the world, and how it gradually drew these other characters out into becoming heroes in their own right. That's the story, and he's at the center of it. Every other creative choice, including which characters were in play and at what point in their "journey" we find them at, was made in service to That Specific Story. If people feel like their own version of it would have been better or more thought out, that's certainly their prerogative but that doesn't mean they're correct.

Nobody ever feels like they have to meet the storyteller halfway and accept the "Why" behind their choices, because they think their own ideas are better. Well, for one thing, you do have to because it's not your project, and for another, once again those people do a great job of illustrating their obstinate refusal to take things for what they Are rather than what they Wish They Had Instead, but very little else.

I see a LOT of people online try and come up with a way to explain how their own version of a JL movie would have been way, way better and easily made a billion dollars, because clearly they know better than the guy who actually made the movie. Well, when they prove it, I'll accept it as more than conjecture and wishful thinking.

The story as-is and the entire plan they had was Perfectly Fine. There's no reason people couldn't wait ONE more movie to get Green Lantern and goddamn Martian Manhunter. People wanted to stomp their feet and pout about how they want it NOW, and in the end we get nothing. Next time, people ought'a be patient and not pout. Things have a way of working themselves out.

[AquaParade]

Holy crap, the Batman trailer is out there and it is glorious.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

No, yeah, he's "in it" as far as he's part of the story and was since the beginning, but basically the plot was that J'onn always kept himself hidden because he knew what Jon Kent told Clark was right about humans not being ready to accept aliens with special powers. Probably because he can read minds and stuff. The plan was always for J'onn to have been "keeping tabs" on stuff under various aliases like Gen. Swanwick, but was not planning to ever reveal himself. Superman's arrival, exposing himself as an alien, and eventually getting humanity to rally around him in spite of being an extra-terrestrial, was going to be what led J'onn to finally "come out" as well, which most likely would have been in JL II.

The scene of J'onn being revealed was storyboarded for JL but I'm not sure if that was part of the principle photography they'd already completed of not. Given the fact that it was one of the things they were talking about a couple weeks before the news about the Snyder Cut dropped, I have to think that was by design. Most of what we heard being discussed in recent months before the official announcement, we've now seen in the teasers. So since they made a big to-do a few months ago about "Oh, yeah, Martian Manhunter was gonna be in it," I kinda think that scene will be part of it as well.

Spoiler:

Point of fact, they showed the scene of Clark's Mom going to visit Lois, and it was THAT scene were it was originally storyboarded to reveal that the "Martha" who went to see Lois was actually J'onn/Swanwick in disguise.
So I really kinda have a strong feeling that we'll get our J'onn J'onnz reveal at long last.

That'd be fvcking great. And also if we can get Hal showing up at the end, acting all "so yeah... this was helpful and all, but can we talk about Darkseid now? Because he's totally coming, and I could use your help."

It'd never actually happen (except maybe it would!), but it'd be such a great end to the Snyder Cut JL.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Holy crap, the Batman trailer is out there and it is glorious.

Holy $hit... Riddler's finally gonna get a great cinematic take! Fingers crossed!

Also... are all those thugs wearing clown makeup?

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Holy $hit... Riddler's finally gonna get a great cinematic take! Fingers crossed!

Also... are all those thugs wearing clown makeup?

This Riddler looks incredible. Paul Dano is a fantastic actor. Great casting right there.
Good question regarding makeup but it reminded me of the thugs from Batman Returns.

Man, a lot of people here were crapping all over the casting for this film and calling the entire movie a fluke because of the casting, but I think it all looks fantastic.

[Andrew NDB]

Not super excited about the Riddler being the main bad guy. He's just not an exciting villain, to me.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Not super excited about the Riddler being the main bad guy. He's just not an exciting villain, to me.

I never considered him an exciting choice but Paul Dano will make him disturbing and colorful, I'm sure.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

This Riddler looks incredible. Paul Dano is a fantastic actor. Great casting right there.
Good question regarding makeup but it reminded me of the thugs from Batman Returns.

Man, a lot of people here were crapping all over the casting for this film and calling the entire movie a fluke because of the casting, but I think it all looks fantastic.

I was always willing to give Pattison a shot at Batman, but I'll admit, I'm still not thrilled with a lot of the cast choices. Still think this movie will knock it out of the park, though.

Was Riddler actually shown? Did I miss it? I saw flashes of Catwoman, but that was it.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I was always willing to give Pattison a shot at Batman, but I'll admit, I'm still not thrilled with a lot of the cast choices. Still think this movie will knock it out of the park, though.

Was Riddler actually shown? Did I miss it? I saw flashes of Catwoman, but that was it.

I assumed he was the masked fellow, but I may have misinterpreted...
I'll watch again when I get home but he sounded good.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I assumed he was the masked fellow, but I may have misinterpreted...
I'll watch again when I get home but he sounded good.

It'll be clearer when official high-res footage is released, I guess.

[AquaParade]

I can't believe how long the Snyder cut is going to be. My favorite shot was that one of Superman hovering above buildings, from the perspective of Lois looking up. Exactly the type of gravitas that was missing from JL, and Zack is so good at.

Unfortunately it still looks pretty damn cheesy in parts. Stuff I assumed were Whedon shots clearly aren't. This thing could still turn out to be a clunker or possibly the worst of the trilogy, but either way it will be better than what was released.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I can't believe how long the Snyder cut is going to be. My favorite shot was that one of Superman hovering above buildings, from the perspective of Lois looking up. Exactly the type of gravitas that was missing from JL, and Zack is so good at.

Unfortunately it still looks pretty damn cheesy in parts. Stuff I assumed were Whedon shots clearly aren't. This thing could still turn out to be a clunker or possibly the worst of the trilogy, but either way it will be better than what was released.

I didn't see anything that reminded me of Whedon's cheesiness. What in particular caught your eye?

Batman on the gargoyle? I did assume that one was a Whedon.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I didn't see anything that reminded me of Whedon's cheesiness. What in particular caught your eye?

Batman on the gargoyle? I did assume that one was a Whedon.

The big one for me is that goofy shot of the league standing side by side on the cliff. Either that shot or a virtually identical one was in the Joss cut. It's like a marketing shot that made it's way into the film somehow. Just look how awkward and unnatural it is. Clearly meant to be their version of the Avengers group shot, but that was an organic action shot and this is more like a class photo.

I also thought the dialogue coming from Ben Affleck's Batman at the end of the trailer was kinda ham-fisted and goofy. The whole "we can do this together!" felt pretty Disney channel. Hopefully in context of the film, it works.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

The big one for me is that goofy shot of the league standing side by side on the cliff. Either that shot or a virtually identical one was in the Joss cut. It's like a marketing shot that made it's way into the film somehow. Just look how awkward and unnatural it is. Clearly meant to be their version of the Avengers group shot, but that was an organic action shot and this is more like a class photo.

I also thought the dialogue coming from Ben Affleck's Batman at the end of the trailer was kinda ham-fisted and goofy. The whole "we can do this together!" felt pretty Disney channel. Hopefully in context of the film, it works.

Oh, right. I suppose the big lineup scene is a fair call.

But as for the "together" dialogue... it's a damn crossover movie. You gotta have one of those lines in there. I don't like it, and I don't like crossover movies, but you can't do one without the other.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Oh, right. I suppose the big lineup scene is a fair call.

But as for the "together" dialogue... it's a damn crossover movie. You gotta have one of those lines in there. I don't like it, and I don't like crossover movies, but you can't do one without the other.

No, I think you're right there. You need them to come together. But it's all in execution. And maybe it doesn't need to be so on the nose. Maybe you don't need to actually have the team leader verbally express it in a pow-wow circle.

Then again, maybe you do. I will give it a chance in the context of the film, of course, like I said. But I cant say it didn't stand out in a bad way to me.

Hopefully I didnt gloss over that a lot does look good to me. Lots of epic shots. And we havent even heard the junkie xl score yet which will prob be dope.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

No, I think you're right there. You need them to come together. But it's all in execution. And maybe it doesn't need to be so on the nose. Maybe you don't need to actually have the team leader verbally express it in a pow-wow circle.

Then again, maybe you do. I will give it a chance in the context of the film, of course, like I said. But I cant say it didn't stand out in a bad way to me.

Hopefully I didnt gloss over that a lot does look good to me. Lots of epic shots. And we havent even heard the junkie xl score yet which will prob be dope.

I mean, to make a fair comparison, I'm pretty sure the first Avengers movie had dialogue equally as hamfisted. But I also haven't rewatched that movie in a long, long time so... who knows?

Didn't Junkie XL do the Fury Road soundtrack? That score was great!

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I mean, to make a fair comparison, I'm pretty sure the first Avengers movie had dialogue equally as hamfisted. But I also haven't rewatched that movie in a long, long time so... who knows?

Didn't Junkie XL do the Fury Road soundtrack? That score was great!

Avengers did too, but it sort of fit the tone, no? I'm not necessarily here to defend Avengers.
This to me feels like a weird mix of Snyder and Whedon, even though it's obviously all Snyder.

Junxie XL did do the Mad Max fury road, I believe. He also did Batman v Superman, if I remember correctly. He did a score for JL but was booted off with Zack when they brought in Danny Elfman for a lazy handjob of a score.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Avengers did too, but it sort of fit the tone, no? I'm not necessarily here to defend Avengers.
This to me feels like a weird mix of Snyder and Whedon, even though it's obviously all Snyder.

I dunno, I'd have to rewatch Avengers 1 to answer that question. And that's not probably happening for another few years...

But I think I get what you're saying.

[Leo656]

The entire theme of the movie is "unity". You're kind of obligated to have at least one "Team Spirit" speech.

Likewise, the compositing of the group shot maybe could be a little bit different, but that too is something that's rather obligated to be there.

((Shrug))

The biggest thing that jumped out for me from that scene was how Whedon deleted the Flying Fox from the shot in his cut. Every "alternate shot" like that has me dying to see the full and proper context, to see how these things were originally conceived and designed to fit before all the tinkering.

Other Stuff:

- I guess so much has been written and spoken of about Cyborg's Dad dying, they didn't feel any need to keep that under wraps and decided to just give that away in the trailer, huh? I ain't mad, just a little shocked by that bit. I can't WAIT for all the Cyborg stuff.

- Batman deflecting those blaster bolts with his gauntlets was awesome. I'm hoping he has a lot more to do in this version of the movie... and isn't so "quippy".

- Something I can't help but wonder about, is the Lex and Deathstroke post-credits. Eisenberg said that he was never on-set for Whedon, thus that scene was something Zack shot. But I have to wonder if it still fits into this version of the movie at all, or if it'll fall by the wayside since plans for the Big Picture have obviously changed going forward.

- Wishful thinking perhaps, but I REALLY would like it if at least SOME lip service was paid to how in the hell Clark Kent had an open casket funeral attended by tons of people including his BOSS, and yet by the end of the movie he's back in his regular "Clark Kent" gimmick as if nothing happened (the "shirt rip" scene was also obviously one of Zack's). His attention to detail is usually pretty keen, so I would hope that he at least had SOME explanation in mind for this. This is one of the biggest things that's bugged me ever since JL came out. I never expected Joss to give it any time at all, but I sure would hope Zack had at least the barest of an outline as to how it could be explained away. ANYTHING would be better than nothing at all.

I'm sure I'll think of other things, those are just a few off the top of my head.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

- I guess so much has been written and spoken of about Cyborg's Dad dying, they didn't feel any need to keep that under wraps and decided to just give that away in the trailer, huh? I ain't mad, just a little shocked by that bit. I can't WAIT for all the Cyborg stuff.

I'd actually completely forgotten the dad dies. But I remember watching the Whedon cut in theaters, fully expecting the dad to die. And he never did.

Originally Posted by Leo656

- Batman deflecting those blaster bolts with his gauntlets was awesome. I'm hoping he has a lot more to do in this version of the movie... and isn't so "quippy".

A thousand times yes. No quippy Batman. Quippy Nightwing 100%, but Batman is stoic and reserved.

Originally Posted by Leo656

- Something I can't help but wonder about, is the Lex and Deathstroke post-credits. Eisenberg said that he was never on-set for Whedon, thus that scene was something Zack shot. But I have to wonder if it still fits into this version of the movie at all, or if it'll fall by the wayside since plans for the Big Picture have obviously changed going forward.

I'd hope to still see it, just because Zack shot it.