So what happens with the next virus?

[Allsparrow]

We bought N95’s early on. Cloth masks don’t do much, if it’s just the virus alone, but it will stop virus laden sputum. The aerosolized stuff, you need more than basic cloth.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Allsparrow

We bought N95’s early on. Cloth masks don’t do much, if it’s just the virus alone, but it will stop virus laden sputum. The aerosolized stuff, you need more than basic cloth.

Yup. You've gotta check out the UV mask, man. It's truly awesome and sterilizes both coming in and exhaling.

[Allsparrow]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Yup. You've gotta check out the UV mask, man. It's truly awesome and sterilizes both coming in and exhaling.

I feel like that was in some comic book I read once. 2020 is so weird. Does anybody think that the real reason for this virus was to curb population growth?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Allsparrow

I feel like that was in some comic book I read once. 2020 is so weird. Does anybody think that the real reason for this virus was to curb population growth?

Since it only really kills obese people and/or the super old... that isn't really an effective tool for curbing growth. Maybe a way to reduce the pool of people sucking up Medicare and all that, but doubtful. Now, Swine flu/H1N1... not quite as virulant/spready as COVID (though oddly, I actually DO know a bunch of people here that caught Swine flu) but that was actually killing young, healthy people left and right.

Another thought... if masks work and would have saved everybody months ago if they'd have been forced to wear them then (and how dare Trump not force that in February, etc.)... why can't we open everything back up, exactly? Like, if everyone is wearing one?

[Mayhem]

Do I know anyone who's gotten Covid? Yes, at least ten people, ranging from work colleagues of my missus (one of whom came to my daughter's first birthday party last year, one is the wife of my missus' boss, and another who came to see us all in hospital multiple times as my daughter was born premature and she's a paedatric specialist with 30 years experience), personal friends (mostly in the UK but also one in Sweden), brother of another friend, and more. Thankfully no one has died to date that I know.

It isn't just about not dying. The friend in Sweden is still technically isolating being infected for over two months but not with severe enough symptoms to require hospital admittance. One friend gets MS like tiredness symptoms and horrible breathing issues a couple times per week. It's estimated that at least a quarter of those who survive will live with some form of lung or heart problems going forward. It may not kill you, but damn sure it may affect your life expectancy in some other fashion.

[Andrew NDB]

None of that is proven yet, as there is no long term data on it (the whole bit about "you may live, but suffer irrevocable damage/quality of life" stuff afterward) that that's actually the case. Maybe it will prove to be but we simply don't know yet as not enough time has passed. The cases I see this being said about appear to largely be the people that are obese and had to be kept on a ventilator for an extended period of time. Then come out of it f***ed up.

I mean, I've had flus that have WRECKED me for a couple of months. But I got better.

[garsh]

Not a joke post: I think since they can allegedly track who infected whom, we ought to be able to sue those that infect us, or our family members.

Why not? We have legal repercussions for traffic accidents. Manslaughter is still a punishable form a murder. Injury from neglect punishable.

If micro-organism responsibility is too ridiculous, I wouldn't be able to argue against it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I mean, I've had flus that have WRECKED me for a couple of months. But I got better.

Oh man, that reminds me of this one time when I got a REALLY bad chest infection that seemed like it was gonna wreck me for life. I was still doing move jobs, and I was on this gigantic household move until around 11pm and it poured rain for about 3/4s of the time. By the time we got in the truck to go home I already knew I was sick and called out for the next day. I ended up missing about two weeks, and it hadn't really cleared up yet I just had no choice but to get back to work eventually. I think it started as walking pneumonia but I don't remember; for like a whole YEAR afterwards, I would feel perfectly fine but then randomly break out into horrendous coughing fits that would last for over a minute sometimes. It hung around for so long that I figured it just wasn't gonna go away and it just became an everyday part of my life.

Then one day it just stopped happening, and I didn't even notice for the longest time. Damnedest thing! I still can't explain it. Life's very strange sometimes.

[Allsparrow]

So, Mayhem has had a lot of experience with the virus, while Andrew NDB and it looks like Leo656 have not, while Garsh is looking to sue people, and IMJ likes the cool U-V masks. Anybody else have direct experience? I found out my friends dad died, and so did 7 of his co-workers. They worked at a packing plant, one guy was just 24.

[IndigoErth]

Too sad, the meat packing plants have had such a hard time. Those plants (mostly chicken in my state) are exactly why our most rural county was for quite a while at a greater number of cases than my county, the most populated one.

Now, my county is back to having the greatest number of cases, and given the population difference isn't surprising, however my zip code vs where the meat plants are is, as of yesterday's numbers, at a 165 cases per 10,000 people vs their 838.5 per 10,000. Ouch. My god, just load crop duster planes (or the ones that drop water onto fires) up the tons of Lysol... o.O (The middle county between is oddly the one who is fairing the best.)

It's kind of humbling to think that the food on your plate may have been processed by someone who died of that virus by the time you sat down to that meal.




edit: Can I just say though... the ads for the new plastic face shield that sits at your neck rather than from the forehead look pretty damn silly and pointless. Looks like a human wearing half a cone that will just act as a funnel for any virus laden particles succumbing to gravity.

[Allsparrow]

So, I found this article, which appears to dispel a few myths. Worth a read if you’re wondering why we’ve been getting mixed messages from doctors, including the reluctance to acknowledge that this is actually airborne, and nothing at all like a flu.
https://elemental.medium.com/the-mos...9-30430384e5a5

I planned to join because I wanted to talk turtles, but death and sickness seems to be everywhere. I’m feeling down.

I haven’t seen the masks you mean.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

None of that is proven yet, as there is no long term data on it (the whole bit about "you may live, but suffer irrevocable damage/quality of life" stuff afterward) that that's actually the case. Maybe it will prove to be but we simply don't know yet as not enough time has passed. The cases I see this being said about appear to largely be the people that are obese and had to be kept on a ventilator for an extended period of time. Then come out of it f***ed up.

Analysis of the lungs of those who contracted Covid but have recovered has demonstrated around 20-25% of them have visible scarring which will affect their breathing capacity. That isn't going to heal, and is what I meant in part by "irrevocable damage". One of my friends is definitely seeing that, he gets out of breath a lot more easily even months after he has recovered. The heart problems are starting to become more pronounced and trying to understand why it also happens.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...-understand-it

My point mostly was, you may recover from it, but as you get older, damage done to your lungs and heart by Covid now even as a younger person (my friend mentioned above is 48 and no where near obese) may decrease your life expectency, and may bring on conditions associated with those organs earlier in life. As you note Andrew, sure none of this is proven, but logic suggests this is the more likely scenario.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Analysis of the lungs of those who contracted Covid but have recovered has demonstrated around 20-25% of them have visible scarring which will affect their breathing capacity. That isn't going to heal, and is what I meant in part by "irrevocable damage". One of my friends is definitely seeing that, he gets out of breath a lot more easily even months after he has recovered. The heart problems are starting to become more pronounced and trying to understand why it also happens.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...-understand-it

My point mostly was, you may recover from it, but as you get older, damage done to your lungs and heart by Covid now even as a younger person (my friend mentioned above is 48 and no where near obese) may decrease your life expectency, and may bring on conditions associated with those organs earlier in life. As you note Andrew, sure none of this is proven, but logic suggests this is the more likely scenario.

There's not many positive ways to approach this idea. Even if someone isn't sympathetic to the chance of permanent damage, proven or otherwise, "short-term" infections could last months.

That costs the state a LOT of money. There's a lot of unseen costs that fall directly on the tax payer. A lot of people don't have jobs at the moment, either, so a lot of the bills can't be paid. If we aren't going to shell out cash for a public option, then why waste cash for people who insist on living recklessly?

In the end, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure rings true. Since we don't know what we're dealing with, it's a good idea to proceed with extreme caution.

[Allsparrow]

The proven part is what seems to be confusing. I think sometimes, it’s hard for people to actually believe it until it happens to them. There is a significant amount of disinformation going around. This is not a flu, the flu is influenza, corona virus is a category which includes the common cold, but also sars-covid2, amount others. It can get confusing, and the early messaging that it only affected the weak and obese, or the old, is turning out to be bad information. Lung scarring is part of what happens, the amount of scarring is dependent on how sick you get, but everyone who gets COVID, will have scared lungs. All major organs are also going to have damage, it’s long been known, but because the media is focused on stopping spread, aftermath has taken a backseat.

It is also very disheartening to continue to read that we do not know what we are dealing with. We do. It is a blood disease, that affects how your blood clots. They treat it like SARS, because sars describes the most common methods of infection. It was seen to enter and attack the lungs, so the assumption was this would behave like SARS. If any if you are in the sciences, medcram on YouTube does a great job of going into further detail.

[IndigoErth]

And to add onto Mayhem's point... What if there is a next time? Sure, a lot of people around our ages and younger may have a higher survival rate with this and most who get it will likely pull through, but if it's leaving people with permanent lung damage, what then if we have the bad luck that another strain of this or an equally bad virus does show up later? Well, I guess enjoy the higher chance of dying from a second blow, because that's now a preexisting condition on a vital organ harshly impacted by respiratory illnesses.

Hell, if scarring is bad enough, I suppose that also then puts people at a greater risk of a tougher time dealing with viruses like the flu. But at least there's already always new vaccines for it every year.

I'd rather just try to avoid the whole darn thing and not risk being a victim of round two, so to speak, because of the fallout of this one.

[Allsparrow]

The bigger issue is that you don’t maintain immunity. You can catch it again, as the antibodies don’t stay in your system for longer than 3 months.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Allsparrow

The bigger issue is that you don’t maintain immunity. You can catch it again, as the antibodies don’t stay in your system for longer than 3 months.

Not proven.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Not proven.

It's been observed and documented.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for recklessness.

[Allsparrow]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Not proven.

I’m beginning to understand why some cats, as you said, might come at you. Why would you argue it’s not proven? I’m not even sure proven is the right wording, seems like a weird thing to debate. I don’t mind you expressing how you feel, but arguing about what people are suffering is insensitive and kind of cruel. I’m happy you haven’t had to deal with it, and happy that your daughter is enjoying distance learning, as you said. It’s not optimal, but she’s at least safe.

[Sumac]

There is a lot of strange stuff about this virus. Like WHO, which changes it position about according to Chinese communists. And strange numbers and inconsistencies about people who have been infected.