Official Justice League Movie

[AquaParade]

I'm not really tired of Ray Fisher's whining yet because it keeps becoming more desperate and strange. Once the level of crazy stalls out a bit, I may find it more annoying.

[Sumac]

Fisher makes everything possible so people would think of him as a laughingstock.
Not sure what caused this: desire for attention or some mental illness.

Without a doubt some people would sympathize with him in this climate, but the guy seriously loses his rocker.

[Andrew NDB]

It's like if he keeps using "racism" in a sentence over and over again, maybe somehow he can conjure it into being by sheer force of will.

[ZariusTwo]

The Hollywood Critics Association have created a new honorary award called the Valiant and will award it to Snyder at the end of the week

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...source=twitter

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The Hollywood Critics Association have created a new honorary award called the Valiant and will award it to Snyder at the end of the week

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...source=twitter

Some sources are reporting that the Black Superman announcement was made to squash the Justice League Snyder Cut vibe because the higher ups and WB just "want it to go away".

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Some sources are reporting that the Black Superman announcement was made to squash the Justice League Snyder Cut vibe because the higher ups and WB just "want it to go away".

Then they shouldn't have made the damn thing.

I'd say it's nonsense, but Momoa did bust open the case on that "Momoa as Frosty the Snowman" story and its coincidental timing...

[Leo656]

Man, I love it when people put words in my mouth.

- I am SHOCKED that when making a Justice League movie in 2015-ish, the comics they pulled from for the roster and main villain was the then-current roster and the most recent "big" event (a Darkseid invasion), and not the stuff from 1960-whatever. Seriously, it had to have been done for "Let's cast a black guy" reasons and not synergistic reasons. Sure.

- Martian Manhunter is just "Superman who can shape-shift". He's redundant in a movie that's Superman-centric. We've been over this 1,000 times already.

For people who invariably gush about those Marvel movies that completely disregard their own source material at every turn, you all sure pick the dumbest hills to die on when it comes to "purism" and "fidelity". It's annoying.

It would be less irritating if people were honest - "I don't like ______ because I wanted the fanfic script in my head to be the movie they actually made" - but most people don't do that because it exposes how their personal biases skew their opinions in a way that simply isn't justifiable. And that's really all most of the criticisms of these movies actually are: "It's not what *I* would have done, therefore Bad." And that's just not good "criticism".

[ZariusTwo]

All Chapter Break Titles

Part 1 - "Don't Count On It, Batman"

Part 2 - "Age of Heroes"

Part 3 - "Beloved Mother, Beloved Son"

Part 4 - "Change Machine"

Part 5 - "All The King's Horses"

Part 6 - "Something Darker."

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/zack-s...-six-chapters/

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I am SHOCKED that when making a Justice League movie in 2015-ish, the comics they pulled from for the roster and main villain was the then-current roster and the most recent "big" event (a Darkseid invasion)

200% this was Geoff doing what he always did back then which was applying things he knew were coming in the movies to the comics to tow the company line. If Snyder wasn't doing a Justice League movie with Cyborg and no Martian Manhunter, then Geoff wouldn't have either in the comics. Period.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Man, I love it when people put words in my mouth.

Better words than dicks, right?

The question about adherence to the source material is sometimes overstimated. A movie has to work on its own in the first place, it needs to stand on its legs, even if the viewer has never read an issue of the comics it is based on. That's the priority. Then there's quality: a good script is more important than a script that is faithful to the source. Also, what works on the comics medium might not work as a movie or might not meet the artistic vision of the movie director. Because every director or writer has an artistic vision, he must have it, it's his right as an artist. A movie is and must be a piece of art, even if its existence is bound to the market and to money.
A movie based on a comics should not be made to please fans of that comics but rather as a way to let a bigger audience know about those characters and those stories. That's why movies based on stuff are made since the beginning of cinema: to tell a story that has been proven to be good and to reach a bigger audience that is not interested in reading books or comics. That story is changed as a consequence of all this and because of the new people working on it and trying to push their artistic, social, political (if they have one and they consider it important) vision into it. And it is perfectly fine, it is how adaptations work.

Fans are difficult to please and most of all have not an objective opinion. If you want to know if a Superman or a Turtles movie is good you should never ask a Superman or Turtles fan. Unfortunately that's not what we tend to do and we keep thinking that we know how characters and stories we love should be adapted to other media. And when movie producers themselves try to please fans they usually end up making bad movies putting adherence to the source material before quality.

Burton, Nolan, Snyder have all made great Batman movies because they have been able to put their visions, tastes and styles into them and because, at the same time, the screenwriters of those movies have shaped coherent characters and put them in intriguing and cohesive stories.
Why am I able to say this? Because I've never read a Batman comics in my whole life!

[ZariusTwo]

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Better words than dicks, right?

The question about adherence to the source material is sometimes overstimated. A movie has to work on its own in the first place, it needs to stand on its legs, even if the viewer has never read an issue of the comics it is based on. That's the priority. Then there's quality: a good script is more important than a script that is faithful to the source. Also, what works on the comics medium might not work as a movie or might not meet the artistic vision of the movie director. Because every director or writer has an artistic vision, he must have it, it's his right as an artist. A movie is and must be a piece of art, even if its existence is bound to the market and to money.
A movie based on a comics should not be made to please fans of that comics but rather as a way to let a bigger audience know about those characters and those stories. That's why movies based on stuff are made since the beginning of cinema: to tell a story that has been proven to be good and to reach a bigger audience that is not interested in reading books or comics. That story is changed as a consequence of all this and because of the new people working on it and trying to push their artistic, social, political (if they have one and they consider it important) vision into it. And it is perfectly fine, it is how adaptations work.

Fans are difficult to please and most of all have not an objective opinion. If you want to know if a Superman or a Turtles movie is good you should never ask a Superman or Turtles fan. Unfortunately that's not what we tend to do and we keep thinking that we know how characters and stories we love should be adapted to other media. And when movie producers themselves try to please fans they usually end up making bad movies putting adherence to the source material before quality.

Burton, Nolan, Snyder have all made great Batman movies because they have been able to put their visions, tastes and styles into them and because, at the same time, the screenwriters of those movies have shaped coherent characters and put them in intriguing and cohesive stories.
Why am I able to say this? Because I've never read a Batman comics in my whole life!

All hail this post.

[Coola Yagami]

IDK... I mean the first live-action TMNT movie stuck pretty close to Mirage, for an audience that mostly never heard of Mirage and it was pretty awesome.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

200% this was Geoff doing what he always did back then which was applying things he knew were coming in the movies to the comics to tow the company line. If Snyder wasn't doing a Justice League movie with Cyborg and no Martian Manhunter, then Geoff wouldn't have either in the comics. Period.

I don't buy that. It's not even theoretically possible that Geoff did what he did in the comics to try and sync up with a movie that wouldn't even be in pre-production for another three years. New 52 Justice League was published in 2011-12 which means it was being scripted in 2010. Snyder wasn't even hired by WB yet. There's no way that Geoff was following Zack's lead, it was 100% the other way around.

What invariably happened was, WB leaned on Zack to try and keep "his vision" for the JL movie fairly in-line with what they were already putting out, which only makes sense. "Use the roster we have in the books right now, and try and get Darkseid in there too." The rest of it was up to him but they already had those "guidelines" in place.

It's like a lot of other things he gets "credit/blame" for that weren't even his decisions but were put on him by WB Corporate - stuff like Superman and Batman having an adversarial relationship in their first team-up movie, Doomsday being in it, Superman having to die, etc. If you've been closely following WB's development of Superman movies (as well as Superman/Batman movies) since the 90s, you've read the various treatments and you know how much of those things came from old, discarded scripts.

What happens in situations like this - and it happened on Nolan's Batman movies, too - is that WB goes to the writer/director and says "Here's your toolkit. You can put the pieces together 'your way', but you have to use These Pieces. You can add a few of your own, you can stack the blocks how you see fit, but you HAVE to use these blocks."

It's something to bear in mind when assigning credit/blame for things. Don't like that BvS wasn't "World's Finest" instead? Yell at WB, they've been trying to get a "Superman and Batman fight to the death" movie made since 2001. Don't like how the Doomsday stuff was wedged in? Again, yell at WB, they've been obsessed with that story getting its own movie since 1995 and they figured they might as well kill two birds with one stone and make BOTH of their "development hell" movies into one and just be done with it already. Don't like the Justice League roster? Blame Geoff Johns and WB, they were the ones insisting that every DC product post-2011 had the New 52 veneer on it. None of those things were "Zack Snyder Decisions".

All that guy ever did, was take WB's mandates for what HAD to be in the movies, and come up with a creative way to execute it. Yes, in the end it was "his vision", insofar as how those pieces were assembled into a functioning whole... but he didn't get carte blanche to pick the pieces he got to play with, nobody does. That's not how these things work.

It's like how Nolan used Scarecrow for "Batman Begins" because he was already penciled in as the villain for the "Batman 4" that Schumacher never made. That was almost 100% not a Nolan Decision, that was a WB "We already have a bunch of concept art and costume designs for Scarecrow from that thing two years ago we never finished, might as well use them; go make it work" decision.

So anyways. Yeah, all WB (and to some degree Geoff Johns) decisions.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't buy that. It's not even theoretically possible that Geoff did what he did in the comics to try and sync up with a movie that wouldn't even be in pre-production for another three years.

Guaranteed, 2000%. Trust me. Nothing was going on in Batman V Superman or Snyder's JL movie -- especially things so basic as the makeup of characters they comprise -- that Geoff wasn't privy to well, well in advance, and probably even weighed in on in the room. Again, he did the exact same thing with Green Lantern and Krona and even the look of Oa out of nowhere. About a year+ before it came out.

And if you really want to look at the timeline of events... Batman V Superman hit in early 2016... by which time WB would have already known way, way, WAY in advance what the general plan was for JL (particularly since he -- famously -- literally rushed right from the wrapping of BvS to JL). Even by 2011 they had a pretty good idea of what they wanted to do with the DCEU if not who would be helming what.

And maybe it wasn't even Snyder's idea. Hell, it probably wasn't (he probably didn't give two f***s about Cyborg until they made him put him in it). Maybe for many years WB knew exactly what lineup they'd want for their JL movie, regardless of who'd behind the wheel... at least, after the GL movie (clearly) spooked them away from Hal Jordan for no good reason. In any case, yeah, 2000% Geoff made his JL lineup to be a good little boyscout for WB. No ifs ands or buts about it.

[ZariusTwo]

In addition to Lois and Bruce having had a relationship...Lois would have ultimately given birth to their son who would then become the next Batman.


https://imgur.com/a/LsQDMaF

[neatoman]

"I watch them. Sometimes from a chair and sometimes from a closet, almost always while dressed as myself."

[Galactus]

No one expects a panel for panel recreation of the classic comics although it might be neat to see Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa's acting if they had turn into trees. It's not like it was faithful to the New 52 comics either and I'm surprised that someone that is very big on source fidelity would defend Snyder taking such liberties with no real creative reason to validate it other than he can.

Rag on the Marvel movies all you want for not always being super accurate to the comics but frankly many of their movies have been faithful to the comics; Iron Man, Captain America: The First Avenger are two very faithful origin movies. Avengers was basically The Ultimates with the classic Avengers in their place and Captain America: The Winter Soldier was actually faithful to the overall arc of Brubaker's Cap run but with a style and tone of spy thriller. Even when they've taken big liberties it's usually for a understandable reasons like retooling Thor to play to the actor's strengths after the first two more faithful movies didn't catch on or not rehashing Spider-Man's origins again. I don't necessarily agree with all the changes but after what they've done they are more than justified. The WB and DC hasn't earned the good faith that they've earned.

Snyder isn't even a comic book fan. The only comic books he ever read growing were the Mirage Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm sure most people here including myself love those books but they're hardly a good gateway into traditional super heroics. Neither is Watchmen which he clearly read and thought was a how-to guide on costumed heroes as opposed to a warning for what not to do with the genre. He did a bit of homework about the DC characters and put a few things from the comics into his movies but he certainly missed the spirit of what they are about. He thought that having Bruce Wayne and Lois Lane hooking up and having a kid and then after Batman's heroic sacrifice have Clark have to raise Batman jr and he wanted Wonder Woman to carry around the severed heads of WWI soliders and this is the guy people think has some deep understanding of the DC heroes?

Whether it's the WB higher ups, Geoff Johns or Snyder himself that made the call on the roster we all know the real reason why Cyborg was there. As someone who understands and likes the idea of increased diversity I don't mind but it could easily been John Stewart as Green Lantern or had Amanda Waller bring them together like they planned to in their previous attempt to start a cinematic universe. I don't know what you have against poor ol' Martian Manhunter I mean almost all of Snyder's league are knockoffs of Superman; Flash can run as fast as Supes but only in a foot race, Wonder Woman is basically Kal-El in a metal bikini and Batman is Clark with no powers and a bad attitude. At least J'onn's shapeshifting, phasing and telepathy are unique powers that could have served the story. Same with Green Lantern (and version) powers.

[Leo656]

I... disagree.

Moving on:

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I... disagree.

Moving on:

"They wanted me back for a reason...I need to find out why"

Applies to Clark/Jesus/Snyder in any given order