Official Justice League Movie

[ZariusTwo]

Gah, had to arrange a dental appointment on Thursday, luckily it's due around 11 AM, which is when the Snyder cut is due to end airing on Sky Premiere...and in any event if I have to leave the house earlier, it's recorded. I'll probably miss the last twenty or so minutes, and half of that will probably be end credits

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

That was a very good trailer. It's gonna be interesting seeing how this goes.

Too bad it's a cul-de-sac of a movie, but it's also not like WB/DC have never drastically changed their minds before so... who the hell knows.

[ZariusTwo]

RT score: 75%

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/zac...justice_league

[Andrew NDB]

"So if every whim and every indulgence has been granted, does that mean it's a good movie? If you're one of Zack Snyder's die-hard followers, then yes. For everyone else? Not really."

"Zack Snyder's Justice League is remarkably uninterested in people. Its heroes are gods with no believers, walking nuclear weapons that have deigned to prevent Earth from destruction."

"Justice League is overlong, miserable and signifies nothing other than the potential of fandom to influence top-level creative decision-making."

"Of course this was the director's last chance to show off his sprawling vision for the DCEU, so it's understandable why he included everything, but ultimately it makes for a laborious watch."

"At its core, it's an exhausting four-hour behemoth that doesn't particularly serve anyone outside of the minority that demanded its existence."

Yeah...

[AquaParade]

I'd really love a small box-set for this trilogy. Something with sturdy, spiffy packaging.

[Andrew NDB]

Trilogy my eye. It's more like...

Trilogy 1:
1) Man of Steel
2) Man of Steel 2
3) Man of Steel 3

Spinoff/versus/team-up movie:
Batman V Superman

Trilogy 2:
1) Justice League
2) Justice League 2
3) Justice League 3

It's a trilogy like Terminator 4, 5, and 6 are a trilogy. A default trilogy.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"So if every whim and every indulgence has been granted, does that mean it's a good movie? If you're one of Zack Snyder's die-hard followers, then yes. For everyone else? Not really."

"Zack Snyder's Justice League is remarkably uninterested in people. Its heroes are gods with no believers, walking nuclear weapons that have deigned to prevent Earth from destruction."

"Justice League is overlong, miserable and signifies nothing other than the potential of fandom to influence top-level creative decision-making."

"Of course this was the director's last chance to show off his sprawling vision for the DCEU, so it's understandable why he included everything, but ultimately it makes for a laborious watch."

"At its core, it's an exhausting four-hour behemoth that doesn't particularly serve anyone outside of the minority that demanded its existence."

Yeah...

It's good to see both sides of the coin, but again I think that most people generally know what they're in for. There is only little room to be surprised or have your expectations subverted, is my assumption.

It's like if Taco Bell is putting out a hotly anticipated new menu item: "The Cheesy, Drippy, Droopy Beanurrito."
If you don't like Taco Bell, there's a slim chance you're going to like it. Let alone the fact that you may have spent three years telling everyone they were fools to think Taco bell would ever make a "Cheesy, Drippy, Droopy Beanurrito."

And vis versa - If you were a Beanurrito-believer, this is your chance to stink up the entire mini-van with your farts, the whole ride home, in the name of redemption.
You worked for this and there is a catharsis and satisfaction to the film that goes beyond the story execution. Besides, every Taco Bell item tastes the exact ****ing same and you were destined to like it.

That said, I'm reading the reviews too. It's fun to try and gauge reactions no matter what bias may be at play.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Trilogy my eye. It's more like...

Trilogy 1:
1) Man of Steel
2) Man of Steel 2
3) Man of Steel 3

Spinoff/versus/team-up movie:
Batman V Superman

Trilogy 2:
1) Justice League
2) Justice League 2
3) Justice League 3

It's a trilogy like Terminator 4, 5, and 6 are a trilogy. A default trilogy.

I see where you're coming from, but I think JL could potentially come in and wrap a bow on the trilogy. I think Man of Steel and BvS feel like companion pieces well enough.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, and Justice League ARE a trilogy. But except in Leo's opinion , it's a pretty damn divisive trilogy.

I'd argue it flows pretty well one into another, but at each stage, it makes a lot of questionable choices that alienates it from not only the wider casual audience but a lot of geeks as well.

[sdp]

It's definitely a trilogy, Batman v Superman deals with the aftermath of Man of Steel and Justice League deals with the aftermath of BvS. It's more of a trilogy than the Terminator 1-3. As far as the reviews, I'm all in. I like Snyder movies so this will be up my alley. I just watched the Whedon cut yesterday and it's not horrible, just boring. Snyder is not very good at telling a great story, it's usually shallow but entertaining, I think by taking Snyder out you had a movie without a great story and now without the entertainment.

[Andrew NDB]

The plan for Man of Steel was always to do Man of Steel 2, then 3... so that trilogy never happened. The BvS turn was a WB decision. And Justice League was never intended to be a third part to Man of Steel... it was supposed to be the first part of the Justice League trilogy (originally, only 1/2 of the first installment of such, I guess?).

[AquaParade]

Justice League (2017) is horrible.

No, it really is.
From Henry Cavill's distorted face to the awful comedy that doesn't even suit the characters (Batman: "Yup, something is definitely bleeding" ).
The overall soul-less engine that drove this film to completion, in the name of a bonus, haunts the entire movie.
If this film ain't horrible, I don't know what film is. Suicide Squad is up there as well.

[Andrew NDB]

This one seems relatively fair...

https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/zac.../1900-6417648/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Justice League (2017) is horrible.

No, it really is.
From Henry Cavill's distorted face to the awful comedy that doesn't even suit the characters (Batman: "Yup, something is definitely bleeding" ).
The overall soul-less engine that drove this film to completion, in the name of a bonus, haunts the entire movie.
If this film ain't horrible, I don't know what film is. Suicide Squad is up there as well.

I'd put Justice League on the very bottom. Suicide Squad might be a mess, but it's entertaining with some decent performances. Justice League was just soulless and cobbled together to make money for the top brass, even though it was a shoddy product hamstrung by corporate second-guessing. (And, of course, Snyder's tragic loss.)

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The plan for Man of Steel was always to do Man of Steel 2, then 3... so that trilogy never happened. The BvS turn was a WB decision. And Justice League was never intended to be a third part to Man of Steel... it was supposed to be the first part of the Justice League trilogy (originally, only 1/2 of the first installment of such, I guess?).

Oh, we absolutely agree on this. Terrible choices all the way down. Maybe if Snyder had to answer to someone who could shoot down some of his ideas (Bruce and Lois having a kid, Jesse Eisenberg, Doomsday in the second movie, etc) he could have still been a major part of the DCEU.

I don't like the Snyder DCEU. I just happen to despise Whedon's patchwork quilt of a movie far more. And I have to recognize that for all of the problems with Snyder, he did contribute a LOT of good stuff.

Man of Steel pretty much in its entirety. Ben Affleck; making Wonder Woman and Aquaman household names (and hugely profitable solo movies); and driving a darker, more serious tone.

It's just too damn bad the long-delayed long-awaited cinematic Justice League was what we got and/or what we are getting.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I admit, I wasn't ready for this. The near-universal praise so far from both fans and critics, as well as HOW positive the reactions are, has me almost nervous.

https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-j...fan-reactions/

Those tweets, too, though... many of them from critics. Mah goodness.

- "Snyder's best/most broadly appealing film"?

- "Not what you expect, no matter what you expect"?

- "Funnier than the theatrical cut"?!

- "Feels like it's 2.5 hours"?

- "A masterpiece"?

- "Fighting back tears multiple times"?

- "Will leave everyone wanting more"?

I confess, it almost has me nervous. Like it's almost too good to be true. Although some of those critics either did not like or have been very critical of some of Snyder's earlier DC films (I keep track of those kinda things), so if they can be won over, that's supremely encouraging.

Thursday can't get here fast enough.

Imma wait and see. Right now this looks like you'll get roasted to hell and back if you dare say something bad about the Snyder cut so a lot of these so-called critics could just be doing it to keep their jobs.

Right now Wandavision is going through a similar thing, where anyone who dare says they hate it is getting blasted all over social media.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's a trilogy like Terminator 4, 5, and 6 are a trilogy. A default trilogy.

Nah, you're a bit unfair here. I admit the DC movies have had issues but they somehow ended up working well enough as a three parts story. I have no problem considering them a trilogy.
The Terminator franchise is a way muddier mess.

[Leo656]

I re-watched a few videos dealing with all the technical and continuity errors in the Whedon cut, and good Lord what a sloppy mess that was when you stop and pay attention. And it's buried under a million jump cut edits to try and hide it, but there's tons of stuff that once you see it, you can't un-see it.

That thing never should have come out in the state it was in.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, and Justice League ARE a trilogy. But except in Leo's opinion , it's a pretty damn divisive trilogy.

I'd argue it flows pretty well one into another, but at each stage, it makes a lot of questionable choices that alienates it from not only the wider casual audience but a lot of geeks as well.

Because of nothing but their own expectations.

A lot of people wanted one version of a thing, and they got something different instead, and instead of focusing on "Hey, this isn't what I expected but it's still good," they got hung up on, "Well, what *I* wanted (or worse, "what *I* would have done...") was this instead..." and that just poisoned the well. The criticism towards Snyder's DC movies is by far some of the all-time worst I've ever seen, especially when most/all of it could be thrown at "certain other super-hero movies", and to a far greater degree, other than the fact that nobody ever seems interested in doing that.

Too much went down because the MCU came first and set the tone for what super-hero movies were "supposed" to be in the eyes of the general public: cartoons. And after that, the entire discussion became about "Why isn't so-and-so more populist?" rather than recognizing that what we got on the DC side was also "good" from an entirely different direction. Even if every single thing had been done exactly the same, except MoS and BvS had come out before Captain America, Iron Man, and Avengers, the worst things anyone would have ever said about the DC movies would have been "Kind of long, a little dark and talky for my kids" and that would be the end of it. Instead they got kicked around for being second to market after another franchise had already convinced everyone that "There's only ONE Right Way to make these movies."

A lot of it may have been subliminal, but that is indeed what happened. A complete inability/refusal for people to collectively see the good in what they were given because it wasn't more like their own preconceived notions about what they "should have gotten" instead. The rest is nitpicky sh*t that can be applied to every movie in general, not just these types.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Right now Wandavision is going through a similar thing, where anyone who dare says they hate it is getting blasted all over social media.

I'll just say this, from the clips and trailers I've seen, Falcon and Winter Solider isn't impressing me one bit right now. I was really into Wandavision for a while but the last few episodes were a let down and then it became apparent I'd been tricked into watching something that would have worked much better as a hallmark TV movie.

[Turo602]

It's definitely a trilogy, though it was meant to be more of a saga. Man of Steel 2 BECAME Batman v Superman and continued Man of Steel's plot by dealing with the film's aftermath and followed up on the ideas presented in Man of Steel. I saw a great image on Facebook that took Jonathan Kent's speech about Clark choosing the kind of person he wanted to be, good character or bad, that he was destined to change the world, and it showed images of the regular timeline and the Knightmare timeline and it just goes to show how important Man of Steel really was in setting up this Justice League story.

As for the reviews, they honestly don't mean anything to me. Everyone has an opinion and most of the time, they suck. I don't know what kind of expectations any of these critics had for this film, what their experience was like with any of the past ones, or whether they're even fans of any of the characters beyond your basic casual interest. I've seen some stupid ass sh*t said about both Man of Steel and Batman v Superman in the past by critics and none of it reflected my experience with them. Gamespot gave it a 3 and the reviewer was someone who had already expressed disdain for the whole movement that made it possible for them to collect a paycheck for their sh*tty review. I'll make my own judgments when I watch it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Imma wait and see. Right now this looks like you'll get roasted to hell and back if you dare say something bad about the Snyder cut so a lot of these so-called critics could just be doing it to keep their jobs.

Right now Wandavision is going through a similar thing, where anyone who dare says they hate it is getting blasted all over social media.

I don't think we frequent the same places at all. Some of these same people in the past wouldn't have had a positive word about a Snyder DC movie if he had a gun to their head. But some of them still seem pretty impressed.

WB also doesn't have that kind of "clout" in the industry. Their movies get routinely sh*t on by everyone, regardless of franchise or filmmaker - not constantly, obviously, but often enough to illustrate that they don't have that much goodwill to be able to pull such stunts. They don't have the same sway to influence opinions in the media the way Certain Other Media Companies do.

Meanwhile, on Comments sections and whatnot all I see is the complete opposite: The same people who always insisted "It's not real, and if it was real it would be terrible anyway", constantly reaffirming their predetermined stance on hating it no matter what, because of course they are. "I can't wait for this to come out and be terrible so we can all spend the next 5 years sh*tting on it" is a common refrain. Because THAT's normal and healthy, and in no way biased or immature at all. So yeah, I doubt anyone's being "led" or coerced into any kind of conclusion.

Bottom line, Snyder has a style of filmmaking which only appeals to niche tastes and if a person isn't already on board then this movie 99% won't change their minds. But I think a lot of people who saw (and hated) Justice League 2017 are genuinely surprised at HOW MUCH better Zack's cut is, and that it's overwhelming to some people. For years the entire narrative has been "That movie was irredeemable" and now come to find out that wasn't the case at all, WB were simply in panic mode and made a lot of bad over-corrective decisions, to the point where they basically sabotaged themselves. I think some people are just genuinely impressed that there's anything That Good that has any of the same bones as the theatrical cut. Nothing more "sinister" than that.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I'd put Justice League on the very bottom. Suicide Squad might be a mess, but it's entertaining with some decent performances. Justice League was just soulless and cobbled together to make money for the top brass, even though it was a shoddy product hamstrung by corporate second-guessing. (And, of course, Snyder's tragic loss.)

I'd generally agree with that. I'd rather watch SS again, if given the choice between the two.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Because of nothing but their own expectations.

A lot of people wanted one version of a thing, and they got something different instead, and instead of focusing on "Hey, this isn't what I expected but it's still good," they got hung up on, "Well, what *I* wanted (or worse, "what *I* would have done...") was this instead..." and that just poisoned the well.

This is nearly verbatim the argument I was making to you in the Pattinson Batman thread last year, about Reeve's film and the character in general. Especially in regards to you wanting the Affleck Batman film instead of the Reeve's one.
I agree that we should be open to interpretation. It's how characters grow and true art flourishes.

The criticism towards Snyder's DC movies is by far some of the all-time worst I've ever seen, especially when most/all of it could be thrown at "certain other super-hero movies", and to a far greater degree, other than the fact that nobody ever seems interested in doing that.

Too much went down because the MCU came first and set the tone for what super-hero movies were "supposed" to be in the eyes of the general public: cartoons. And after that, the entire discussion became about "Why isn't so-and-so more populist?" rather than recognizing that what we got on the DC side was also "good" from an entirely different direction. Even if every single thing had been done exactly the same, except MoS and BvS had come out before Captain America, Iron Man, and Avengers, the worst things anyone would have ever said about the DC movies would have been "Kind of long, a little dark and talky for my kids" and that would be the end of it. Instead they got kicked around for being second to market after another franchise had already convinced everyone that "There's only ONE Right Way to make these movies."

A lot of it may have been subliminal, but that is indeed what happened. A complete inability/refusal for people to collectively see the good in what they were given because it wasn't more like their own preconceived notions about what they "should have gotten" instead. The rest is nitpicky sh*t that can be applied to every movie in general, not just these types.

I agree that the criticism is poor.
In terms of people describing why they don't like Snyder's work for being "too dark" (I think your point on Marvel may have had something to do with this. 'Marvel isn't dark, so that must be what Snyder did wrong') when that likely isn't the issue at all, or people getting hung up on trivial elements that don't perfectly resemble the comics - so what?

Yet, I don't think there was any bias against Snyder's films until the Justice League drama went down. Many people simply didn't like BvS or Man of Steel, and sucked at describing why. The films were given a fair chance to be enjoyed, however.

Once the mythical "Snyder Cut" came into play, lines were formed in the sand.
I'd even say that if you were a believer in the Snyder cut existing, back before it was confirmed, there is a 99% chance you are excited for this movie and a fan on some level. Think about that one for a second.