Official Justice League Movie

[Andrew NDB]

I guess I don't even need to use a spoiler tag since this was in the Whedon/Theatrical Cut. Which has been out for many years now.

Mm, so OK. Wayne Manor as JL HQ. I feel like the vibe from BvS is that Bruce just moved away and left it to rot, period. Didn't sell it, didn't do anything but probably fire anyone who was still employed as "the help" there whatever "many years" ago it was that he went away from it. Is this fair?

OK, now suddenly... Wayne Manor, or the plot of land that once housed Wayne Manor... now it's this hub of superheroes. Like, all the ones in the media. Even if you drag Bruce Wayne in front of a news anchor to say, "I'm letting the Justice League use my old Manor because why not?" that doesn't seem super, super stupid? Like, even if he sells it... people are going to dig, and they wouldn't even have to try hard.

Now again, the easy way out is that maybe Bruce doesn't care if he's outed. No loved ones that can be hurt anymore (though Alfred is still around, and any other Robins or Batgirls they would ever want to retroactively introduce)... but this is unlikely. And also, as a billionaire... would it really be that hard to just set up something else for them elsewhere? Like, anywhere else? OK, the Batcave has cool sh**. This can be moved somewhere else, or recreated.

And if the argument is "well, he sold the land, probably! It can't be tied to him!" then... eh, to whom? Who did nothing with it for these untold years where the Manor spontaneously rotted to rot? And to where Bruce can still just waltz into the place like he owns it many years later?

[CyberCubed]

I hate to say it but I think Jessie's version of Lex could actually work in a new movie. I hated him in B v. S, but there was something about him that makes it feel like he could work. He's still too "young looking" to feel like Lex Luthor and doesn't feel imposing, but at least now he looks like Lex being bald and it feels he can "grow into" a Lex Luthor. I guess that was the intention?

Thinking about the pacing the only stuff I feel could have been trimmed down is all the songs during each characters opening. The Aquaman one has this weird singing where all the villagers feel like they spend 3 minutes singing this Nordic (?) song while Aquaman just goes back into the ocean. Like that was pretty boring.

[sdp]

The positive reaction alone redeems Snyder's JL, WB won't learn any lessons but they might even use this as a way to jump start a new JL movie. Not because it was super successful or it became a super classic or that they learned any lessons but after the becoming the laughing stock and having to cancel their connected universe that weren't stand alone sequels to successful ones already like WW.

They can make a sequel with darkseid, people won't complain of another JL movie because it's "finishing the storyline" and of course it likely won't be what Snyder envisioned, hell he might not be directing it, same with Affleck not being batman in it but just using the hype of this cut to get a new JL movie out as an excuse to do "part 2", and take it their own dumb direction. Of course we might even get one by snyder but what I'm saying is with this much positive reaction despite not being hailed as a new classic it's a way to get a new JL movie made without people questioning "why are they doing this again if they failed" which is why they weren't doing anything with JL in the long term.

[Andrew NDB]

If it tracks well... it doesn't take much thought to imagine how they could do a sequel that could work, whether you only watched the Whedon Cut or the Snyder Cut. But 100%, it'd be a Zack Snyder cut off from all "DCEU puppet master/showrunner" type of a role entanglements, if a JL 2 begins to gestate from this. Which I suspect he never even really wanted to begin with but kind of ended up with just by default.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess I don't even need to use a spoiler tag since this was in the Whedon/Theatrical Cut. Which has been out for many years now.

Mm, so OK. Wayne Manor as JL HQ. I feel like the vibe from BvS is that Bruce just moved away and left it to rot, period. Didn't sell it, didn't do anything but probably fire anyone who was still employed as "the help" there whatever "many years" ago it was that he went away from it. Is this fair?

OK, now suddenly... Wayne Manor, or the plot of land that once housed Wayne Manor... now it's this hub of superheroes. Like, all the ones in the media. Even if you drag Bruce Wayne in front of a news anchor to say, "I'm letting the Justice League use my old Manor because why not?" that doesn't seem super, super stupid? Like, even if he sells it... people are going to dig, and they wouldn't even have to try hard.

Now again, the easy way out is that maybe Bruce doesn't care if he's outed. No loved ones that can be hurt anymore (though Alfred is still around, and any other Robins or Batgirls they would ever want to retroactively introduce)... but this is unlikely. And also, as a billionaire... would it really be that hard to just set up something else for them elsewhere? Like, anywhere else? OK, the Batcave has cool sh**. This can be moved somewhere else, or recreated.

And if the argument is "well, he sold the land, probably! It can't be tied to him!" then... eh, to whom? Who did nothing with it for these untold years where the Manor spontaneously rotted to rot? And to where Bruce can still just waltz into the place like he owns it many years later?

If the writers don't want the Normals to figure out that Bruce Wayne is Batman, then guess what? They don't ever figure it out. If they write that Bruce just gives the JL his old house to make their clubhouse out of - let's be honest, it's a big house in a semi-secluded area, and nobody else is using it - and they write "...And no one was ever the wiser", then That's The Story, guy.

This is more "How come nobody ever figures out Superman and Clark Kent are the same guy?" type of over-thinking. Y'know why nobody figures it out? Because in Real Life, some people resemble each other, and people don't think it's weird. Not every tall guy with dark hair is Superman in disguise; WE know the secret so it seems super-obvious to US; it's not really all that obvious to "normal people" in the universe of the story. When BvS was coming out, Cavill walked around Times Square right under a giant billboard with his face on it, and nobody put 2 and 2 together... and he wasn't even wearing glasses. I think, as I recall, one or two people may have went up to him and said, "You kinda look like that guy in the Superman movies!" but nobody flat-out said "Oh my gosh, it's the guy from the Superman movies! Right there!" Not even with the giant f*cking billboard right over his head. He posted about it on his social media because he found the entire thing hilarious. Turns out you don't even need glasses, if most people don't think you're That Guy, anyway. They just say "You kinda look like That Guy." But they don't assume you ARE That Guy. It's actually pretty funny. Turns out "Clark" could probably just walk around without glasses constantly and people would just tell him "Dude, you look a little like Superman." Go figure!

Anyway. We know two things for sure: Wayne Manor became the Hall of Justice, and by the proposed events of JL3 nobody but the League ever knew he was Batman, not until possibly after he died. So, that's that. Either he spun a really convincing yarn OR everyone in that universe is an idiot. I don't know which, I didn't write it. It's not worth getting so hung up on, regardless.

Now, "Iron Man is just Tony Stark's bodyguard" in the comics... THAT was always kinda iffy. Again, the "civilians" in comics are generally kinda dim and very easy to fool; so what? Who even cares that much?

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

If it tracks well... it doesn't take much thought to imagine how they could do a sequel that could work, whether you only watched the Whedon Cut or the Snyder Cut. But 100%, it'd be a Zack Snyder cut off from all "DCEU puppet master/showrunner" type of a role entanglements, if a JL 2 begins to gestate from this. Which I suspect he never even really wanted to begin with but kind of ended up with just by default.

I can almost see them MAYBE doing a sequel that combines elements of what was going to be JL2 and JL3 into one movie. JL2 was mostly going to take place in the Knightmare Timeline after they screwed up by trying to preemptively take the fight to Apokolips, which turned out to be a Very Bad Idea and ended up getting Lois killed and Superman thus falling prey to the Anti-Life Equation and taking over the world. JL3 was going to be about Flash going back in time to un-do all of that, and the League actually getting it right the second time around.

I can see how a lot of people would whine that an entire movie where Darkseid Won and everyone is dead would be "too much", but maybe if this does gangbusters they could merge bits of the JL2 and JL3 stories into something streamlined.

I feel like if this thing actually gets a very good response, doing NOTHING with the material would be foolish. Some people actually want to see the proposed sequel(s), now, which wasn't even true a week ago. I mean it's all already been scripted and storyboarded, the cast would all gladly come back if you go by the way they talk... I know it would take a lot to make it happen but I feel like the worst thing they could do, at this point, is Nothing. If people do in fact WANT more... well, what's to lose?

Zack kinda talks like he's completely over working with WB, is one thing. That "marriage" ended badly and he hasn't been shy about saying so. But who knows? He just spent a year finishing this movie for free; if they ask him, he might come back. Even he isn't expecting to be asked, but... again, a week ago none of this was even a conversation.

Now? Huh. Maybe?

[Andrew NDB]

He's full of sh** if he says he wouldn't come back. Though I wouldn't blame him one iota for being salty... they did him DAMN dirty and we all know it and how they did it and under what pretense. Disgusting.

But yes, if in 4 weeks we look back and this is a wild hit on all media... yeah. They would be dumb to ignore it. And as we well know by now, WB is nothing if not (overly) reactive. That's how we spontaneously ended up with like 25 Harley Quinn movies but now only actually have 3 or 4. Or how WB announced the entire DCEU 7 years ago or whatever and only like 3 of those movies are happening, and not even in the same form.

[Leo656]

Well, he never said he WOULDN'T come back. What he said was, "WB has 100% moved on," that he doesn't EXPECT to be asked back... but when someone asked him in an interview point-blank about IF he would come back, he very coyly said that he'd be willing to have a conversation about it, If and When. But he was very careful to stress, repeatedly, that he doesn't expect that to happen.

The fact that he managed to talk them out of $70 million to finish this thing means that he does have SOME clout, or at least Friends In High Places. This wasn't a WB decision, this was ultimately a decision made even above WB's pay grade; they were pretty much forced by THEIR corporate bosses to give Zack whatever he asked for to get the project done, so HBO Max would have some big-name exclusive content.

If someone in The Big Office Upstairs says to the WB execs, "Give this guy one more shot, but try not to piss away $400 million on it"... then it'll happen.

If.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, no sh**.

[sdp]

I think affleck or snyder would come back just to because of knowing that WB had to admit their mistake to rehire them in the first place which redeems them. I can see it happening but even if they don't I think this is as good as ever for Warner build their universe again and jump in on the DCEU as if nothing had happened.

Just a few years ago it was a mess since their DCEU flagship movie had failed but they had these smaller movies that did well. They are literally still trying to fix it right now with the multiverse idea that they were implementing on flashpoint which was finally getting a positive reaction. We now have a JL movie that despite if some people might not like has an overall "positive vibe" going for Justice League. It's the time for Warner to say "oh yeah, here's a continuation of that. They didn't have that before the snyder cut and only solution was to reboot comic book style. I think they'll take advantage of this good will they created with people, but who knows, they literally changed an entire movie that was already done just because some movie critics that have a marvel biased roasted the previous movie.

[Andrew NDB]

The smart move is to rehire Snyder but "tactically." As in, do this and just this. Yes, you can sit in the room of this and this and this and chime in but just focus on this and nothing else.

[CyberCubed]

If this does really well for HBO and it looks like it will, having another 4 hour movie could very well happen.

We're getting a Batman reboot and apparently a black Superman movie (lol) but that doesn't mean the Snyderverse can't continue alongside it. After all there's going to be a third Wonder Woman movie, an Aquaman 2 and a Flash movie...and all those movies are still connected to the same universe anyway.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"The Snyder Cut doesn't exist! Not even with unfinished scenes and all!"

Yeah, these people definitely get to be laughed at now. There were many, even around here.

[CyberCubed]

So nobody really mentions this anywhere but why is Steppenwolf a monster in this movie? From what I remember in the cartoons and comics, he just looked like a human in armor in his classic designs. When he takes off his helmet later in the movie he's just all creepy rock monster.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by sdp

It’s annoying how major deniers and “know it all’s” in this scenario just fell back on semantics when they were proven wrong. John Campea likes to stress that he said Snyder’s cut was “never 100% finished” therefore he was right.
No one ever claimed it was 100% finished. Whedon’s JL wasn’t even finished - look at Cavill’s face. I didn’t pretend to know one way or the other whether Snyder had a cut, but that’s why I didn’t roll my eyes and try to shut down people on either side.

[Andrew NDB]

The most annoying thing to me was people pointing to dodgy things in the Whedon version which clearly were part of his 90% reshoots as proof positive that there couldn't possibly be a Snyder Cut. Also, the people doubting that that Whedon's % of reshooting was actually 90%. Because it was.

[CyberCubed]

The Whedon scene where Flash falls into Wonder Woman's breasts was removed in the Snyder version. I have no idea why Whedon thought that was a good idea, but knowing he's a sexist pig in real life probably accounts to it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The Whedon scene where Flash falls into Wonder Woman's breasts was removed in the Snyder version. I have no idea why Whedon thought that was a good idea, but knowing he's a sexist pig in real life probably accounts to it.

It can't be "removed" if it was never there to begin with and only added long after Snyder had his principal photography.

Personally. It's fine. Might warrant a chuckle. Too bad thats a FAKE Barry Allen and all to make it matter. But alas.

[AquaParade]

Btw:

I completed the film and greatly enjoyed it, warts & all. I pretty much have the same feelings I did 45 minutes in.

I'm going to watch it again before I share final thoughts, because that was a lot to take in, but I can safely say it was better than I expected. It has the potential to be my favorite of the trilogy. The film sort of has a "rock 'n' roll" vibe that reminds me of "300", and didn't feel all that present in the previous two movies.

[Shark_Blade]

Amazing. Just amazing. Better in every way.

Was thinking, there’s a bright side that the movie was taken from Zack Snyder in 2017 because had it been released in cinemas back then, it definitely won’t be 4 hours long. This film is truly a blessing in this trying times.