Official Justice League Movie

[sdp]

Warner Media will use the success of the Snyder cut for a new movie, not whether it's Snyder JL II or a JL 2 without snyder. They'll keep some references vague as to not say which is the "canon" version. Perhaps we might get a throwaway line from flash in flashpoint about seeing different versions of events like cyborg's dad dying and surviving.



Greatest thing Whedon did in his cut was having cyborg say booyah. Cyborg became a JL member because of how popular he was in the Teen Titans cartoon and they needed a black superhero, without the success of the cartoon perhaps he would've never been a JL member. Even the comics had cyborg say booyah. The Flash/Wonder Woman trip joke is good too, something the DCAU would've done.

[Leo656]

Terrible...

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Also, with as vastly better Superman looks without bad CGI mouth replacement... he barely even speaks in this.

Several of the shots that were added were apparently cut and paste from The Man of Steel and D.O.J. as well. But Snyder recolored them so it's harder to tell... I saw a meme on instagram that illustrated this nicely but I can't find it now.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Several of the shots that were added were apparently cut and paste from The Man of Steel and D.O.J. as well. But Snyder recolored them so it's harder to tell... I saw a meme on instagram that illustrated this nicely but I can't find it now.

Huh. Why'd he need to do that? Cavill was a wrap with Snyder's version.

[CyberCubed]

I always thought Henry Cavill looked really weird when he smiled. I can't figure out why though, he looks kind of like, "La Creature" from the black lagoon or something.

[Leo656]

Knightmare stuff that wasn't done being filmed yet when Zack wrapped.

The scene of him kneeling over Lois's dead body and Darkseid putting his hand on his shoulder was repurposed from the end of MoS. And the shot of him crashing down and advancing on Bruce's team in the Knightmare Epilogue was from the beginning of BvS, when he rescued Lois in Nairomi. Cavill was busy doing Witcher stuff when Zack was doing the shoots for that stuff so they had to just use what they could.

For what it's worth, I think it's very seamless and a lot of people didn't even notice. *I* noticed but I've seen those movies like 20+ times each by now.

Also, I can't confirm it but I wouldn't be shocked if the one scene of Clark doing the "Zoom-In Punch" on Steppenwolf was the same shot as when he hit Zod like that in MoS. It's VERY close, to the point where I honestly can't tell from memory if it's the same shot repurposed or if it was actually shot to be an homage. It's definitely meant to evoke the MoS shot but I don't know if it's literally the same shot reused or not.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Knightmare stuff that wasn't done being filmed yet when Zack wrapped.

The scene of him kneeling over Lois's dead body and Darkseid putting his hand on his shoulder was repurposed from the end of MoS. And the shot of him crashing down and advancing on Bruce's team in the Knightmare Epilogue was from the beginning of BvS, when he rescued Lois in Nairomi. Cavill was busy doing Witcher stuff when Zack was doing the shoots for that stuff so they had to just use what they could.

For what it's worth, I think it's very seamless and a lot of people didn't even notice. *I* noticed but I've seen those movies like 20+ times each by now.

Also, I can't confirm it but I wouldn't be shocked if the one scene of Clark doing the "Zoom-In Punch" on Steppenwolf was the same shot as when he hit Zod like that in MoS. It's VERY close, to the point where I honestly can't tell from memory if it's the same shot repurposed or if it was actually shot to be an homage. It's definitely meant to evoke the MoS shot but I don't know if it's literally the same shot reused or not.

Pretty much all of this, yup.

[Leo656]

Also, between movies, video games and TV shows, that "Zoom-In Punch" is pretty much Superman's "Finishing Move", now. You see it everywhere!

Not complaining, I just think it's pretty neat how things like that become part of a character's "visual language".

[AquaParade]

I had given up my physical copies of these movies, as the Whedon cut sort of botched it for me. I've always still enjoyed the others, but that third film made it easier to let go of the physical copies.

Well now I'm back in the game. I ordered the Jim Lee cover - Man of Steel 4k Steelbook. It looks glorious.

"Booyah" is completely unecessary. Let it go. It's a miracle on the level of the Deadpool movies not dragging us through a dozen chimichanga jokes.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Also, between movies, video games and TV shows, that "Zoom-In Punch" is pretty much Superman's "Finishing Move", now. You see it everywhere!

Not complaining, I just think it's pretty neat how things like that become part of a character's "visual language".

That's like Iron Man's landing. It was taken from an Adi Granov volume 3 cover where Iron Man was smashing the ground with a punch, became a Sideshow Comiquette and then Favreau put it in the first movie as the landing and it became that regularly.

[AquaParade]

I can't watch that Warehouse fight scene in BvS without thinking of the Arkham videogames.

[Leo656]

That's a Feature, not a Bug!

Also, Jim Lee's Superman is tremendous.

And I can find no evidence of "Booyah" with regard to Cyborg before that cartoon show came out. I don't care how much it got over in that one thing, it's dumb and it needs to stop.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I can't watch that Warehouse fight scene in BvS without thinking of the Arkham videogames.

That's probably a testimony to how good both of those things are. That Warehouse scene is still the single best setpiece of any Batman ever put to film. It's only real analog for a superhero film is possibly the scene in Winter Soldier where Cap storms the battleship. And even put up against other films with combat in them, I'd say that Batman Warehouse scene might even be better than the "fight for bread" scene in Ip Man.

[Leo656]

I love when he just gets completely fed up and pins that guy to the wall with his own knife. "How d'YOU like it, F*ck-Face?!" Awesome.

And when he fights all those guys off while still on his back, like... dude, there is NO angle or position where this guy isn't The Most Dangerous Man Alive. That was the only Batman movie ever where you really BELIEVE that, that this dude is a living lethal weapon and he will absolutely f*ck you up using whatever he can get his hands on. He might take a hit but he's never at a disadvantage. Two dozen against one? "I like those f*ckin' odds, Alfred."

For all their numbers, their guns and grenades and knives and flamethrowers... those guys didn't have a goddamn prayer. And you knew it. The second he crashed through the window, it's like... "Yeah, these guys are totally f*cked." And then he just goes to work and it's beyond anything you'd ever seen or imagined before. Just so, SO good.

Some people actually hated that scene for being "too much like the video game." But like... that's crazy. There's supposed to be a symbiotic relationship between these various things, where the Best of one version creeps into another where appropriate. Like how Burton's Batman score creeped into The Animated Series, or how I mentioned before with Superman's "Zoom-In Punch" from MoS being used as one of his Special Moves in the Injustice games. The way Batman fights in the Arkham games is so well-acclaimed because it is, indeed, Perfect. That's exactly how Batman SHOULD fight, using all his gadgets and the environment and mixing all of it together to be able to hold his own against large groups of bad guys, or anyone at all. We didn't know what it could be until those games gave it to us, but now we see that it is, indeed, The Right Way. So why SHOULDN'T the movies copy that to the last detail? They'd be insane NOT to.

People can have their issues with that movie all they want but the general presentation of Batman was f*cking excellent. I love most of the other live-action Batmans for various reasons - Yes, even Adam West, but NOT Kilmer or Clooney - but Affleck truly brings "MY Batman" to life in a way that no other version has ever even come CLOSE to doing.

I didn't even used to like Affleck. To me he was just That Prick From "Fashionable Male". I used to make fun of him a LOT, but little by little he won me over. I NEVER in my life expected him to become my all-time favorite Batman... but here we are. I can admit when I'm wrong, and I was wrong about that guy. He made me a believer and I never wanted to let go of Bale. But again... Here We Are.

[AquaParade]

The only thing "missing" from Zack Snyder's JLA, for me anyway, was another awesome Batman scene like the ones we got in BvS. There are some great shots here and there, but nothing like the minutes-long surge of ecstasy you get from that chunky warehouse scene.

[Leo656]

Yeah, you speak the truth. I don't see anyplace it would have fit well, but yeah, that's the only thing "missing". Selfishly, I would have loved to see more "Just Superman" stuff as well, but it's not either of their movie so some things have to be sacrificed for the Bigger Picture.

I do like that we get to see Batman do a lot otherwise, though. Like with the Nightcrawler and the Flying Fox and even using the blaster rifles and whatnot. Always improvising, using anything at hand to stay in the fight and get an advantage, no matter the situation.

Like, This Specific Batman really feels like it works perfectly in either context, either "Dark Knight" Batman where he's street-level, or "Super-Hero" Batman where he's in these fantastical situations. Batman in BvS felt like he was ripped right out of the Batman solo comics... but in THIS movie, he feels like he was ripped right out of the Justice League comics. And that's how it SHOULD feel; when he's in the JL books he encounters enemies and situations that are nothing like those he encounters in his own solo material, and he kind of has to scramble because he's in a little over his head, but he's never out of his depth because he Always Has A Plan but also is a master of improvisation. And this movie really nails that.

I don't think every version of Batman has had that versatility, to go between either so seamlessly. I think Keaton's could fit either way, but not Bale's. And I actually like Bale's Batman more than Keaton's, he was absolutely perfect for what those movies were trying to be, but his Batman felt so "real" that I kinda can't see him fighting aliens and stuff and having it not feel a bit "off". And especially after seeing how easily he jobbed to Bane, who's just One Big Guy, I can't even see that Batman having anything resembling the big Warehouse Scene. Frankly, I think if it were a fight Affleck's Batman would break Bale's Batman in half.

The three each did a great version of a "different" Batman; Keaton was "methodical", Bale was like, "scrappy", and Affleck is just plain a monster. They each did it Perfectly for what their movies were, but I can really only see Affleck's both as a solo act AND part of this super-team of alien-battling demigods.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

The only thing "missing" from Zack Snyder's JLA, for me anyway, was another awesome Batman scene like the ones we got in BvS. There are some great shots here and there, but nothing like the minutes-long surge of ecstasy you get from that chunky warehouse scene.

Yeah, I thought the same thing.....

[Andrew NDB]

The Redletter guys weigh in on it:



They liked it.

[Leo656]

I've watched a few different video reviews, and I'm amazed that so many people who were either tepid about or flat-out hated Snyder's other movies (not just his DC ones, but his entire catalog) were genuinely pleasantly surprised by this one.

Like, objectively it's probably his best movie. Everybody, whether they love his movies or hate them, seems to mostly agree on that. Even the "negative" reviews (most of which aren't so much "negative" as much as they never stop harping on the length) where they didn't much care for the movie are like, "I hate this guy's style BUT this is his best attempt at a movie."

Whoever expected THAT to happen with this movie is a goddamn liar. Y'all know I love the guy's body of work - even "Owls of Ga'Hoole", no foolin' - but scroll back a few pages - I knew I'd like the movie but I still had reservations. I did not think it would be his BEST movie. Especially not under the circumstances.

And maybe it's not actually his best movie, but the fact that it's even a conversation is... WOW.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I've watched a few different video reviews, and I'm amazed that so many people who were either tepid about or flat-out hated Snyder's other movies (not just his DC ones, but his entire catalog) were genuinely pleasantly surprised by this one.

I'm not, really. It's just proof positive that a generally pretty good movie... most people are probably going to like it. Now, I agree with you that a lot of MoS reviewers fell into the pit of "B-b-b-but I wanted to see this or that!" (mostly non-comic readers or people aware of not much other than just the Donner movies) and get lost in the weeds about what we actually got, which was a pretty awesome spiritual adaptation of the 80s/90s Superman brought to life but they kind of just clung to this. Now again, when we get into BvS... that's when we get into two things. #1, beyond "a series of moments," it isn't objectively a very good movie. And we can get back into all of that. #2, everyone who already hated MoS for dumb reasons now felt validated. Like, "Ah-HAH! See! It's just Snyder just doing the same MoS crap!" Which isn't fair or correct, but I get where it's coming from.

And now? A combination of COVID, chickensh** studios holding back a lot of "big" movies for a while now, a legitimate thirst for such... people are willing to do a mouth rinse and truly approach "Snyder's JL" with a truly objective and fresh mind.

One thing I didn't really touch on before:

The biggest thing I loathed about Whedon's JL was that all of the big moments that should have felt big... felt like poo. I didn't feel anything, coming out of that. I felt like I came out of seeing a soulless Frankenstein thing and I seem to recall typing that. The closest thing I can compare it to was coming out of the theater as a kid in 1993 from TMNT III and feeling like... well, the movie wasn't like incompetent, especially compared to TMNT II... but I felt like I just came out of it feeling nothing at all, beyond maybe attending the end of a franchise that I previously loved.

This? There are many moments I "felt something." And they are big and the right moments. Wonder Woman's debut shielding bullets and how she does and everything in that terrorist scene... perfect. When Bruce is talking about "He's never faced us. Not united," that resonated. It didn't feel like some cheap rushjob that was unearned. Even Flash's saving of Iris... great! Superman's entrance into the final battle... excellent.

Spoiler:

Wonder Woman beheading Steppenwolf and sending him and his severed head back through the Boom Tube to say "hi" to Darkseid? I love it. And of course it should have been her to do that.

*: Also, I'm looking at a lot of BTS videos from Snyder's original shoot. It looks like Superman was always going to be in the red & blue post-resurrection? He was, in all of these videos and stills. I THINK that when Flash and everyone was carrying Superman's body into the ship for the resurrection party... maybe one of the costumes we see pop out was the black Superman suit (like the red and blue one you see there that pops put... maybe he colored it such)... but he never actually wore it in the movie.

Which is doubly odd... because in the Whedon cut it LOOKS like Superman has been recolored into red & blue. But maybe that really is just Whedon boosting the saturation up the wazoo?