DC/WB Confirm ''The Flash: Flashpoint'' Movie

[AquaParade]

WB just goes where they think the money will be. It's not about saying "**** you" to the fans, despite how it may feel to some people.

ZSJL did well, but it doesnt mean you instantly boot up another theater movie for the series, when the previous ones already performed below expectations at theaters. People realizing that Snyder's version was better than a streaming pile of **** doesn't actually mean that much.

But they are pumping out as much Batman as possible, so I can imagine a scenario where neither of these Batman die in the flash film.

I still think we see Affleck suit up again whether he dies or not.

[Leo656]

I Edited my previous post to include a direct reply to your other post. In case you missed it. My post was originally in reply to Zarius, and I hadn't seen yours until after, thus the Edit.
---------------

WB doesn't always make decisions based on finance, so much as out of spite.

To wit: They refuse to even publish what would have been Snyder's JLII and III as a COMIC BOOK... which would have cost them, like, five dollars to produce.

Fans said, "We just want the story! Even if it's not a movie! Just give us SOMETHING!"

And in turn, WB said, "No. You said you hated this Snyder stuff, so we're burying it. You LIKE it now? Where were you five years ago? Nah, get f*cked, it's over. We're moving on, so should you. Stop asking."

Affleck is a relic of Snyder's vision. WB does not want him there. Period. He represents something they want to bury and move on from. This Flash movie just gives both sides a way to end their "relationship" gracefully, and not on mutual bad terms as it would have been if it had ended with JL in 2017. Both sides get to walk away smiling, this time. It's good PR for WB, pretending to make nice. Otherwise, they never would have called him. His phone sure wasn't ringing from them a year ago, was it? Or when they "stole" his Batman movie and gave it to Pattinson?

Every decision - EVERY SINGLE THING - that WB did regarding Justice League, and everyone connected to it, from 2017 up through this past Spring, was motivated out of nothing but pure spite. Not money - although I'm sure they THOUGHT getting "The Avengers Guy" on the case would crack the billion-dollar code, but we saw how that turned out. No, I mean about how they "backdoored" Whedon into directing in the first place, by hiring him to "just" do some "minor rewrites" and then immediately having him "babysit" everyone on set, acting as a director while Snyder was still physically present in that role. How when Snyder left the project to deal with his daughter's suicide, WB did nothing to step in and clear up any of the "He got fired for sucking LOL" rumors that were in every headline for years, when they easily could have done so at any moment just by telling the truth and saying, "Well, we were already sort of shifting plans, but no, he asked to leave and we let him go." How after Whedon's Justice League bombed, they not only refused to entertain any notion of Snyder's version existing, despite even the entire cast saying "Yeah, Snyder's was way better, hope it comes out one day!", but they openly told people to "Stop asking, it's not happening."

Lest we forget, it wasn't WB that approved that Snyder's cut be finished and released. That was an HBO Max decision, made way above WB/DC's pay grade. WB were furious about it... even though it did well and made money. It got good reviews, it was the highest-selling Blu-Ray and DVD by a HUGE margin upon its disc release... and you can't actually get anyone from WB, to this day, to acknowledge out loud that the damn movie even EXISTS.

And when fans say "We want more, SOME how, even if it's not a movie," WB just keeps saying, "No. No movie, no comic, no HBO Max series... NOTHING. Now stop asking and GO AWAY."

These aren't decisions that have anything whatsoever to do with money.

It's about how WB, ultimately, had egg on their face after the Whedon fiasco, they're ashamed of it, can't admit it, won't walk it back, and would rather leave money on the table than say, "Y'know... maybe we can make some of that Snyder stuff work, IF you guys say you want it so bad."

But they don't want to make some of it work. They just don't want it, period. Even if people beg, they don't care. Even if those people wave money at them, they don't care.

They will never - N-E-V-E-R - admit that the Whedon cut of JL was a mistake. That's the crux of it. To the point where they'd rather just bury everything and start over, if need be. 'But there's money to be made!" They don't CARE.

I've noticed that you tend to have this, "If there's money along a path, that's the path Companies will inevitably follow" sort of philosophy. But you're ignoring two very important things: Pride and Spite. The only two things on Earth more powerful than money.

That's what WB makes a lot of their decisions on. Money is PART of it, sure, but they've shown countless times, they're really bad at consistently making money but really good at pissing off their fans and employees in large numbers all at once through their bonehead moves, be they creative or business-related.

To keep Affleck around, or to resurrect ANY bit of Snyder's DCEU, WB would have to implicitly admit that they f*cked up in 2017 and hit the "REBOOT EVERYTHING!" panic button too early. They'd have to acknowledge that people hated their Whedonized version of JL, and liked Snyder's version better. They'd have to acknowledge that some people very much want those stories finished, even if it's a comic book or some other way.

Simply Put, to keep Affleck on, WB would have to on some level admit that they made a mistake taking Batman away from him, and the DCEU away from Snyder, in the first place.

They don't have that in them. They don't.

It's not about the money.

It's about "We CAN'T be wrong. We CAN'T."

Pride. And Spite. And that's all.

[AquaParade]

You may be right - there is some evidence that leads to believe that egos come into the decision making at WB...

Thing with the Snyder situation is, I can't even blame them. Without rolling out the whole Snyder vs WB thing again, I'll just say that there was a lot of ****-flinging on both sides.

But it was more then just ****-flinging, it was the use of precious IP by Zack and the way Ray Fisher was publicly accusing the CEO of racism and calling for his job. Not that I am excusing all of WB's actions.

But I do think that when it comes to Snyder and crew, it makes sense why WB would just say "Screw off, guys. Seriously, screw off. You got the Snyder-Cut against all odds and while we are trying to promote it, you are out here calling me racist and literally attempting to get me fired. Screw you. Cul-de-sac. Goodbye."
I wouldn't give an ounce of promotion to Ray Fisher if he was accusing me of racism and trying to get me fired. Not a comic book, not an action figure, not even a sticker. He was putting the CEO's livelihood in jeopardy during a pandemic. I'd close the door on that dude asap. It's what I'd expect of any CEO in that position.

And frankly, Fisher made himself look awful by the way he handled the scenario. He went to great lengths to choose the private investigator that got involved. He wouldn't stand for the one that was chosen, so he went and got a "third-party investigator". He promoted her and shared a clip of their audio conversation online, just so he could highlight the pat on the back she was giving him.
Then, after all that, when the investigation turned up no signs of racist action or behavior, he had a huge fit and wouldn't accept the outcome of the investigation. Talk about a bitch.

But even then, I think we will still see Snyder-Verse stuff pop up here and there, because leadership is once again about to change at WB. Nothing is set in stone right now and pretty much anything can happen.

[Leo656]

Well, Fischer certainly complicates the issue, but supposedly at one point he allegedly would have settled for an apology and an acknowledgement that he had a legit grievance, and got neither. If I were WB, and assuming WB isn't a bunch of idiots and assholes (they are), I personally would've just said "Sorry, guy" just to make it all go away. Path of least resistance, and all of that.

Now, I'm willing to leave out how badly he himself may have handled the situation, for a moment. Just about everyone else in the cast ALSO claimed a grievance of some type or other with Whedon and WB for that shoot, and everyone else got their apology, pat on the ass, whatever. Ray is the ONLY one who WB openly snubbed. Probably because he's not as big a "star" as Gal Gadot. To his point of view, that snub is WHY he's been a dick about the whole thing ever since.

And I don't know, man. We've been over it and over it, but if you think the same people threating to ruin Gal's career if she didn't read Whedon's trash script as-written were somehow above saying dumb (and racist) things like "We can't have an angry black man at the center of this movie", then you once again have more faith in human beings than I do. That's all I can say on that, as usual.

But ultimately, Ray Fisher is not the issue, and he isn't why WB won't touch anything Snyder produced for them. That's all secondary. He's barely a factor at all in the Big Picture. He's NOT at all why WB is burying everything Snyder-related. I mean, they don't love him, either, I'm sure. But he's a Little Fish. If he were at all the issue, they'd just recast his character and nobody would honestly care. People liked him as Cyborg but I doubt anyone would like fight to see him keep it. If WB wanted to keep some of Snyder's universe, and just didn't like Ray Fisher, they'd just get rid of Ray Fisher. Simple. But he's not at all the issue.

It's really more about how the WB/Snyder "marriage" was never stable, entered into under false pretense by one of the parties (WB), ended badly, and now both sides aren't even speaking. They can't even "stay together for the kids", the "kids" in this case being the fans who'd like to see more of those abandoned ideas brought back to life in some fashion. They just don't get along, and they just can't work together. At least not right now.

Apparently, the last and final straw was when they were discussing the possibility of doing Zack's JLII and JLIII as a series of comics, and WB said "Zero chance." Up until then, Zack was seemingly holding out hope that differences could be reconciled to some degree, even if he wasn't still making movies for WB and they were just using his ideas for other media. After that, it was simply, "Well, if you guys don't want me here, then I'm just gonna go. We're both just screwing around, and it's serving no one."

Yeah, he talked a bunch of sh*t on them on his way out the door, but... so did Nolan. So do lots of people. LOTS of people sh*t on WB on their way out the door, because WB on the whole is not a good working environment. "Allegedly".

Anyway, even if there are "management changes", as far as I know Zack is under contract with Netflix and while he's still listed as "Executive Producer" on a bunch of DC movies coming out, it's one of those "Paycheck Producer" roles where you get paid despite not actually being involved in any way at all. I don't even think he CAN, at this point, go back and work with WB on bringing any of his stuff back into rotation. Contractually, I mean.

So, as usual, "we'll see". The fact that Snyder's "Justice League" even came out - and furthermore, that lots of people liked it - did admittedly go a long way towards reminding me that "impossible" things occasionally do happen. So, there's that. Maybe WB would find a way to do something with Affleck, or some of the Snyder-verse elements, or something. "Nothing's impossible". Sure.

But regardless, like everything else on this planet, "I'll believe it when I see it, and not before." Right now, "All Signs Point To Hell No" from where I sit.

HBO Max and the people at "corporate" above WB may yet be a factor, though, I admit. HBO Max wanted ZSJL, not WB. HBO Max were the ones who expressed interest in an Affleck Batman series, WB were the ones against it. There's been some tug-of-war all year long between the two groups as to what the future holds for the DC branch.

So I guess nothing can be ruled out. But it all remains highly, highly unlikely from my perspective.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

And yet, the fact you've consistently proven entirely incapable of following this simple philosophy yourself completely invalidates your point while further proving mine.

Simply put, don't preach things you have no intention or ability to live up to. That quoted line is probably the single most "Pot, Meet Kettle" thing that's ever been posted on this forum, and that's really saying quite a lot.

No, seriously. You're right there in black and white saying "Do not do this thing" which is... like... 99% of what you do, in this section. Your entire gimmick has always been telling people "That thing you like is trash because *I* say so", and now you're trying to say you somehow DON'T do that, and furthermore, chastising ME for the same. Yikes.

I can't even. I have lost the ability to "even". I haven't been this confused since King Kong Bundy called me "fat".

Sorry, mate, but for all my bluntness and rudeness I don't act like I have a special authority to judge people and their tastes, just because, I've read 100 of comic books.

That's what it is about. Not about having different opinion.
Hopefully, you'd be able to sort this out.
Cheers!

[Leo656]

You do it all the time, comrade. You just don't like it when *I* do it, for some reason.

I'm guessing it's an "Alpha Dog" thing. "Can't be two in one place", and all that. It definitely can't be a "respect other people's opinions" thing, because... well... you don't. Or at least, you've never even pretended to until, like, Right Now.

Enjoy your date night with Ma Kettle, Mr. Pot.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You do it all the time, comrade. You just don't like it when *I* do it, for some reason.

I'm guessing it's an "Alpha Dog" thing. "Can't be two in one place", and all that. It definitely can't be a "respect other people's opinions" thing, because... well... you don't. Or at least, you've never even pretended to until, like, Right Now.

Enjoy your date night with Ma Kettle, Mr. Pot.

I ain't about delusions, mate.
I don't care about "Alpha Dogs", "Beta Pigs", "Omega Turtles" and other pets. I just don't like, when people act like obnoxious elitists with no reason.
Down with the elites!

[Leo656]

Post history suggests otherwise. Some of us have very long memories.

If you suddenly wanna flip your gimmick and turn babyface, that's entirely your prerogative. However, there's generally supposed to be a whole storyline explaining it. You don't just walk out and be like, "Now I'm a Good Guy." Generally, the audience doesn't buy into it.

But I mean, you do you, obviously. I just don't think it's gonna get over.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Post history suggests otherwise. Some of us have very long memories.

If you suddenly wanna flip your gimmick and turn babyface, that's entirely your prerogative. However, there's generally supposed to be a whole storyline explaining it. You don't just walk out and be like, "Now I'm a Good Guy." Generally, the audience doesn't buy into it.

But I mean, you do you, obviously. I just don't think it's gonna get over.

Think whatever you want, mate.
There is a major difference between our approaches. If you can't see it - not my problem. I also have long memories, so don't worry, I remember your meltdowns and the like, so your attempts to look like an "innocent party" don't trick anyone.

[Leo656]

Point of fact, I made the "opinions are subjective" argument before you did. And I've been making it for almost ten years, with you.

Your response to me has ALWAYS been, "Nah, you just like sh*t things."

That's not you "respecting other peoples' opinions." Gotcha.

In regard to this specific conversation, I never said you HAD to agree with me that adaptations should stick close to the source material. What I said was, That's MY preference, and furthermore, that every single person has a different line of importance with regard to such things, including myself. I made the comics/Braveheart analogies specifically towards that end. In which I specifically mentioned, I am a fan of comics, therefore I prefer their adaptations be more faithful; I'm not a Scottish history major, therefore, I don't especially care that Braveheart isn't all that accurate.

You cherry-picked the hell out of the post, looking for things you could play games with me about. So one would think you caught that part. OR, your reading comprehension perhaps simply isn't great, and therefore you missed the entire point. Given that English isn't your first language, that'd be understandable to a point, but the fact that it led to you needlessly rattling my cage over something of such little consequence is annoying.

So what actually HAPPENED was, I expressed my opinion and said "tastes are subjective". Then you ALSO said "tastes are subjective", but also, saw fit to call me "autistic" and tell me that my opinion is wrong.

So what you're ultimately saying is, you perhaps think in a broad sense that different opinions deserve to be respected, but you simply choose not to respect mine, specifically. You never have respected them, so please don't pretend you ever have. Calling someone "autistic" over their preference in movies is not "respecting their opinions", my son.

And that's really all it's ever been with us. There were never any "meltdowns". Just me chiding you over and over again, for years, and often at length, about needlessly being an obstinate ass.

I don't like doing it, especially. But you force me to. Because you simply say a lot of things that are either totally inflammatory, OR, totally self-contradictory, as in this case. "Respect other's opinions. Except yours are dumb, you must be autistic." That's literally you. Just a little while ago.

The difference between us is simply I make no pretense. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But I'm not inclined to pretend I especially care about theirs.

AND. Unlike you, I generally don't call anyone's opinion sh*t unless they provoke me first. At that point, they've earned it. Otherwise, they can say any dumb thing they want, I really don't care. It doesn't affect me, UNTIL they start making it a federal/personal case. As you so often do.

I mean, here's a game we can play. I'd rather open both wrists than watch a Taika Waititi movie. I know that you, however, love his movies. Can you honestly remember the last time I gave you a hard time about it? Even in the middle of an argument? I'll answer for you: You can't, because I haven't, at least not in a very long time if ever. Because what you think of his movies is your business, and despite the fact we are of polar opposite opinions on that particular subject, I'm not inclined to call you names over it. I don't actually care that much. You can like whatever you want, I don't care. Me disagreeing with you isn't me "condescending" to you.

And I really, REALLY wish that by now you could understand that.

But again. I don't actually think it has anything to do with that. You've been nastier to people on this forum than I've EVER been, and further, Temp Banned way more often, for exactly that reason. So the fact that you, of all people who've ever posted here, is trying to somehow once again portray ME as some kind of narcissist, and yourself man of the people...

Well, it's confusing.

Originally Posted by Sumac

Think whatever you want, mate.

What I think is - sincerely - you got bored and figure we haven't had a scrap in a while, so you just made up something to try and rattle my cage since it's been a while and you know I always respond.

A person who calls someone "autistic" over a difference of opinions, doesn't truly believe in "respecting others' opinions."

The End.

Your political commentary is often spot-on. More That, Less This. All Of This serves nothing and no one. Three days in? Time to move on.

[Sumac]

Case in point.

Instead of constructive criticisms of my points about "misinformation", I've got another meltdown.

Also, yes, telling other people that their opinion is bad, because, you've read more comic books, doesn't come off as "elitism", but as a weird malfunction.

[Andrew NDB]

[Sumac]

I don't think anything will come out of it.
I'll got another meltdown thrown my way and that's about it.

I'd like to have a good discussion about what constitutes "misinformation" when it comes to fictional stories, but, it is what it is.

[AquaParade]

Spoiler:

Jk. I've had my share of heated debates.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I don't care about "Alpha Dogs", "Beta Pigs", "Omega Turtles" and other pets.

This was a good one. You received 18 experience points.

[Leo656]

"Meltdown".

Rather, just me explaining at length exactly why you're an idiot and a hypocrite for the hundredth time.

One of us has definitely been sippin' the ol' antifreeze vodka a bit hard. But it ain't me.

Again, stick to arguing politics. Your arms ain't long enough to box with God.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Again, stick to arguing politics. Your arms ain't long enough to box with God.

Well and truly Punk'd

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"Meltdown".

Rather, just me explaining at length exactly why you're an idiot and a hypocrite for the hundredth time.

One of us has definitely been sippin' the ol' antifreeze vodka a bit hard. But it ain't me.

Again, stick to arguing politics. Your arms ain't long enough to box with God.

You've never answered any of my points, just made a long post to insult me. So, yes, it is your typical grade "A" meltdown. Not the first one.

And, mate, I don't believe in gods. And even, if I did, you ain't one. You are more like some goblin with little self-control, when it comes to your precious superpups.

I was like that about TMNT. But it was when I was 12.
Take time, breath in, breath out. Clear your brain-cogs, sip some questionable substance, you are mistaking for a beer and ****ing learn not to take criticism of your favorite characters so personally.

Cheers.

P.S.
AFAIK, you're cool guy, so I don't take your insults personally, since I know you are saying this **** in a heat of the moment.
Besides, anyone going mad about Superman like this can not be taken 100% seriously by default.

[Leo656]

I've "insulted" you one time in the three days we've been having this back-and-forth. And that was in the last post I made. So nope. I didn't even immediately go there when you called me "autistic". Yes, I called you an "idiot". Eventually. And it took a LOT to get me there.

I sincerely believe you're a troll. That's not an insult, that's me calling it like I see it. The "hypocrite" part speaks for itself, so again, not an insult.

I don't like how for about 8 years, every single time anyone is having a serious conversation about DC movies - a topic YOU, yourself, have admitted multiple times that you don't especially care about and are a casual fan of at best - you just HAVE to chime in and be disruptive and insulting. Always, conveniently enough, only to me personally.

Well, some of us do care about the topic, and we want to have serious conversations, and share INFORMED opinions about the subject matter.

That becomes impossible once you inevitably start doing what you do. Scroll up and see how once again this thread was going perfectly fine for multiple pages at a time before you got back into it. And how since then, every single time it gets back on track, you derail it again. On purpose.

So, you don't care much about the subject at hand. But you care a LOT about sniping at me because you find it amusing.

Per Wikipedia:

In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception.

Yep. Checks out. Sorry guy, I didn't write it.

Someone can come find me if this thread ever gets back to being about the topic it's supposedly about and stays there. Until then, I'm done with it completely. This nonsense is beyond tiresome.

Might go to the Power Rangers thread and screw with people there for fun, in the meantime. I mean, I don't actually know much or care about it... and I only ever watched any of it as a kid for Amy Jo Johnson's legs... BUT HEY, my opinion counts for every bit as much as theirs, I guess. So if I wanna go in there and call them names and say the thing they like is garbage I guess it won't be a problem. Or maybe I'll go stir some sh*t in the anime threads. I'unno dick about that stuff, either, but those weebs look like easy pickin's.

Seems kinda silly, but I guess we've established that it's somehow an acceptable use of one's time. So why not? Might be fun to disrupt their sincere efforts at conversation with My Snarky Bullsh*t for no good reason at all.

Anyways, tapping out on this thread. Enjoy your craphole, dumbasses.

[Sumac]

As I predicted - an another meltdown.
No points answered, just some angry rant. Bo-o-oring.

In a words of certain goose: "Predictable".