Rittenhouse/ self defense

[Galactus]

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

I feel I should point out there is less evidence of Treyvon Martin going out with the intention stealing cars than there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists. That casts his motivation for being at riots caused by the police shooting an unarmed black man in a much darker light. Let's call a spade a spade here; he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

However if you want defend his legal right to be there regardless of how extremely dumb and morally questionable it was that is fine ...but you should also extend that same argument to black people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd. What is a bigger lapse in judgement anyway going to play vigilante at a riot or going out at night or going to a grocery store during the day?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

That he wanted to help defend businesses and injured people, which he did until he was attacked. We know this because he's told us this many times and there is video evidence and eye witness testimony of him doing just that. What part of that isn't sinking it? Now, can you answer about what the psycho pedo was doing there, or the felon who wasn't supposed to even own a gun, or any of the hundreds of people smashing stuff up were doing there? Because those seem like much better questions.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

As I recall, Martin was spotted snooping around people's windows, something that largely gets left out of why he got in trouble. and the police don't KNOW it's a Toy Gun. you point something at me, you get only ONE shot to make it count, otherwise your dead and they're not. especially if they point it at you.

Floyd was big and massive and probably on some kind of drug and that's why they might have felt the need to restrain him. could it have been done another way? yeah... but if it was a white guy, I garuntee you it wouldn't have even made the news. no one would be lamenting a dead white crook. the fact that people are holding up these 'victims' as innocent shows you how desperate they are to paint this kid as a problem. that should tell you alot right there.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

twitter is already going on about the usual white supremicist nonsense ....
and this nonsense of 'no justice, no peace' sure sounds like a threat for more violence.

here's the thing. if he deliberatly went out there looking for trouble, that's not self defense. if he was just walking around trying to get something during a riot, and got attacked that IS self defense.

the video could have been edited to make it look like one, or the other and no one is happy.

the first thing I saw, was him being attacked by a gang and having what looked like a hand gun go off after someone grabbed it. that clearly looked like self defense. but if he had what LOOKED like a high powered rifle that the attorney held in court, and was just walking around waiting for something to happen, that IMHO, opens it up to a whole other discussion.

Doesn't matter what he was carrying. Kyle could have been running around with a .50 BMG for all that that matters... he was lawfully carrying & the only people who got the firearm pointed at them were his attackers... 100% self defense. I carry everywhere I go... Its not because I'm looking for trouble, its because evil exists & I'm not going to outrun anyone...

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I see the narrative already spreading on Facebook pages. "Damn that judge! It's because the judge had a soft spot for that kid!" and memes like this one:

https://i.ibb.co/6mqkC7k/259352072-4...95672814-n.jpg

Who tf is the black dude shot in the back? Is that supposed to be the knife wielding rapist that was shot that set off blm terrorists?

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Galactus

This whole thing happened the middle of riots that began with protests about the police shooting of Jacob Blake with racist anti protesters showing up to cause trouble. Rittenhouse didn't just randomly choose to play vigilante at any civil unrest he deliberately chose that one.

Comparisons between Kyle Rittenhouse and George Floyd are hugely flawed. There are several important reasons why Floyd became a sympathetic figure and Rittenhouse didn't...well apart from among racists.

1. Rittenhouse was taken alive by the police even allowed to go home, Floyd was killed by the police.

2. Rittenhouse shot a bunch of people killing them, Floyd may have passed a bum check.

3. Rittenhouse is white and Floyd was black. If you're wondering why that is relevant it's because it explains the first two and also explains why Rittenhouse got away with it.

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

Fvck floyd. Drug addict died of his overdose... typical drug addict swallowed the pills he had to try & hide evidence. Sure what the cops did did not help but frankly, his drug addicted a$$ would have overdosed regardless where he was sitting or laying or at once the police had him in custody. Rittenhouse rid the world of 2 human scumbags.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

I feel I should point out there is less evidence of Treyvon Martin going out with the intention stealing cars than there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists. That casts his motivation for being at riots caused by the police shooting an unarmed black man in a much darker light. Let's call a spade a spade here; he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

However if you want defend his legal right to be there regardless of how extremely dumb and morally questionable it was that is fine ...but you should also extend that same argument to black people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd. What is a bigger lapse in judgement anyway going to play vigilante at a riot or going out at night or going to a grocery store during the day?

First of all, Trayvon could have lived if he hadn't taken a swing at & beat on an older guy that was armed.... he died because he was also stupid. Floyd was a drug addict & the cops got railroaded. He was dead regardless of what the police were doing because he popped all those pills.

Now, Rittenhouse was LAWFULLY carrying a firearm he got only once he got to town. The firearm did NOT come with him from his home. Pay attention. Kyle never hung out with any white supremacists, just some white dudes that the liberal media has labeled as such run by a guy is who is not even a white dude.

Trayvon brought fists to a gun fight.
Floyd overdosed.
Kyle defended himself against 4 violent felons trying to kill him.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

I personally would not have gone out, as he did.

However, "Why was he even there?" wasn't the point of the trial. The point was, "Under state law, did he have the right to shoot to defend himself against people who came after him?" State law says "Yes he did." But I agree, if he stayed home then nothing happens. I don't think he really should have been there, but that wasn't what the trial was about.

If you've ever been questioned by the cops after any sort of violent encounter - and BOY have I - when you start going too far backwards in the series of events that led to whatever it was that happened, they will always cut you off and be like, "I don't give a f*ck about yesterday or an hour ago, just tell me what the f*ck happened Right Now." So the WHY of Rittenhouse being there was not entirely relevant no matter how much people insist that it is. Was he licensed to carry? Apparently yes. Was he within his rights to shoot at people attacking him? Apparently yes, according to state law. "Why was he even there?" Legally, not really relevant. But again, I DO think him even being there was stupid. But it's not enough to establish intent to murder. Murder is VERY hard to prove, on purpose. Especially in incidents such as this.

The officer who was on trial for killing Floyd was technically innocent of "murder" because "murder" by its very legal definition implies INTENT. And I highly doubt the officer MEANT to kill George Floyd. And I'm pretty sure the Fentanyl had a wee bit to do with him dying as well. Call it a gut feeling if you must.

And Martin should have kept walking home, not started a physical fight with the person following him. Even if he was innocent of anything he was suspected of, up to that point, at THAT moment he became an assailant, a criminal, and Zimmerman acted as anyone in that situation would if they were armed as he had been. Someone starts smashing my head against the concrete, f*ck it, I don't care WHAT they were doing a minute ago, sh*t's ON now and if they don't make it, Oh Well. Don't bash my f*cking head against the concrete, then.

These are not apples-to-apples comparisons. BUT, in every case, someone done goofed and in turn someone got killed. Still, it's not as simple a case of "Whataboutism" as some would have one believe.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That he wanted to help defend businesses and injured people, which he did until he was attacked. What part of that isn't sinking it?

Let's say for a moment that's correct; what business has a 17 year old with no medical training and from an entirely different state even doing going there to help injured people and businesses?

Now that I've humoured that argument for a moment let's be real; a guy who has at least some sympathies with white supremacists isn't going to a riot caused by the repeated shooting of an unarmed black man to help anyone. At very least that should cast some doubt on his motivations.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

As I recall, Martin was spotted snooping around people's windows, something that largely gets left out of why he got in trouble. and the police don't KNOW it's a Toy Gun. you point something at me, you get only ONE shot to make it count, otherwise your dead and they're not. especially if they point it at you.

Rittenhouse's defenders say there is no proof his intentions were to cause anyone harm but there's zero proof that Treyvon Martin was looking in windows or looking to steal cars. He didn't have any of the supposed equipment to break into anything actually on him.

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I don't buy that Police should take no chances. When you join the police you're supposed to accept that some situations your life will be on the line. There are acceptable risks. Dealing with a 12 year old child with something you've been informed was probably a toy is one of them.

Floyd was big and massive and probably on some kind of drug and that's why they might have felt the need to restrain him. could it have been done another way? yeah... but if it was a white guy, I garuntee you it wouldn't have even made the news. no one would be lamenting a dead white crook. the fact that people are holding up these 'victims' as innocent shows you how desperate they are to paint this kid as a problem. that should tell you alot right there.

If George Floyd was not resisting arrest I see no reason to put him down on the ground certainly not kneel on his neck. As soon as he started saying he couldn't breath they should have tried to help him.

I agree that if Floyd was white it probably wouldn't have made the national and international news but that's because George Floyd was the latest in a long line of unarmed black people that were killed by the police. Comparatively much fewer white people are killed by police even the likes of Dylan Roof. When white people are needlessly killed by police it's also FAR more common for the officers involved to be held accountable.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I feel I should point out there is less evidence of Treyvon Martin going out with the intention stealing cars than there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists. That casts his motivation for being at riots caused by the police shooting an unarmed black man in a much darker light. Let's call a spade a spade here; he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

The fact that you create this kind of narrative out of nothing tells me more about yourself, rather than KR or anything about his case.

In particular it shows paranoia, love for inane conspiracies and some weird hatred.

Normal people won't jump to conclusion, that the guy was there to commit mass murder of some random people.

[Coola Yagami]

Honestly George Floyd was a nobody, all this **** mostly happened cause it was during pandemic lockdown and people saw it as a 'get out of jail free lockdown' excuse to go out, gather in groups and destroy **** when they were still supposed to be home due to the pandemic.

I bet you most of the so-called protesters didn't give a flying ****, they just saw it as a free pass to go outside and take out their lockdown aggression on property. And if the cops happened to arrest or shoot 'the wrong one' they can keep their cause going.

I don't care what Kyle was doing there, he clearly woulda been shooting people up if that his intention from the start, the video even shows him just walking around all chill until he got attacked.

Also stop using the 'another state' ******** narrative. Dude was literal minutes away. Y'all acting like he drove 10 hours to get there.

[joe-eyeball]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Also stop using the 'another state' ******** narrative. Dude was literal minutes away. Y'all acting like he drove 10 hours to get there.

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by joe-eyeball

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

It's not just that, it's that from where he stands, 'the next state' is literally a hop, skip and a jump away. It's like going to the grocery store. They're just desperately reaching for anything to make it sound as incriminating as possible.

[Bahamut810]

I dont know much about most of the cases with MArtin and Floyd but I am well up on Rittenhouse...so lets correct some misconseptions.

What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

He didn't travel across state lines with an AR-15. It was legally purchased and held by a friend of his living in Kenosha. He travelled to a town 15 minutes from his permanent address that he lived in part time with his Father, visited his father side of the family who primarily lived there and he worked there. So he had a vested interest in the town. To put it in perspective, he was time was closer then the guy who lost his bicept (30 minute drive) and the guy who initially assulted him (4 mile walk).

there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists.

a guy who has at least some sympathies with white supremacists isn't going to a riot caused by the repeated shooting of an unarmed black man to help anyone.

The pictures you are talking about came *after* everything went down at a time when Rittenhouse was being lambasted in the media and loved by people outside the media. It seems pretty obvious that a young person was responding to positive attention when his life is extremely chaotic.

It seems like you have a pre-concieved notion that you *want* him to be a sociopathic monster.

he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

Completely incorrect. There is video footage of him going out to try to help people and he has a long history of joining orginisations dedicated to helping people (like Jr Firefighters). He was there to help people and mitigate the fires caused by a mob by his actions.

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I don't buy that Police should take no chances. When you join the police you're supposed to accept that some situations your life will be on the line. There are acceptable risks.

Agreed, but there is a difference between acceptable and stupid risks.

If George Floyd was not resisting arrest I see no reason to put him down on the ground certainly not kneel on his neck. As soon as he started saying he couldn't breath they should have tried to help him.

I dont know everything about this case...but I do know that he was saying that during the entire encounter even before he was on the ground. The ground was their compromise to not going in the cruiser which he fought the cops on. That does not make it right if they didnt do right...I dont know about extenuating stuff. I did watch the video at one point and thats what happened.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by joe-eyeball

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

Totally. I keep wondering if people know what they are talking about when they say that, because it’s completely meaningless in the big picture. Try convincing me you really care whether he crossed state lines, regardless of the fact that his dad lived there and it was ten minutes away.

[Leo656]

I will say - and I promise not to make a habit of this - I have to give credit to Biden for his statement about "the system works" and "we have to abide by the judge's decision". That took guts, all things considered.

I guess everybody does get One.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I will say - and I promise not to make a habit of this - I have to give credit to Biden for his statement about "the system works" and "we have to abide by the judge's decision". That took guts, all things considered.

I guess everybody does get One.

It is a sad day, when the fact that judicial system works as it should and doesn't bend to crazy psycho mob or politicians celebrated as a something great.

As a Russian I can sympathize with it, though.

Originally Posted by Bahamut810

It seems like you have a pre-concieved notion that you *want* him to be a sociopathic monster.

It what Lefties do - everyone who disagree with them are definitely psychopaths who want to kill innocent people just because.

One of their main ideas of why Blacks lives are bad (?) in US is that White people ready to hurt themselves and their families, just not to vote for the laws that would make life of Blacks easier.
What kind of understanding you can find with people who seriously think like this? Who think that even tiniest disagreement is enough to label anyone as a potential racist mass murderer?

[Vegita-San]

Cue the Antifa riot. I guess that was a 'peacful protest' too, huh?

too me, looks like the capitol riots. violence is more their MO.

[Bahamut810]

It what Lefties do - everyone who disagree with them are definitely psychopaths who want to kill innocent people just because.

There is no hurt in pointing it out when it happens though. One day someone may reflect on their witch hunts. Afterall..."progressive cancel culture" is just todays red scare, DnD scare, witch hunt...basically the most vocal group trying to push their morals on *everyone*.

Cue the Antifa riot. I guess that was a 'peaceful protest' too, huh?

Did that happen last night? I haven't heard anything about it yet.

[Coola Yagami]

The most I see is the usual leftist ****. Twitter going nuts, anyone who disagrees is getting blocked, friendships are being broken on FB over whoever says Kyle did nothing wrong. All that nonsense.