Is there no such thing as "choice"? If there is, how is there?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Of course I admit that choice exists, that doesn't mean that all choices are the right ones though. Choice should not be the ultimate denominator of society, bad choices should be punished and good choices should be rewarded.

The question for someone of your worldview is that how can you prove choice exists? In a worldview completely divorced from the supernatural, there is no room for an immaterial soul with free will.

If we take a completely naturalistic approach as non-believers typically tend to do, then there is no room for anything to exist that cannot be proved scientifically. Science covers the physical world, which is completely deterministic and leaves no explanation for free will.

Yeah, I don't believe free choice exists. Not in the way you would ordinarily think of it.

It comes down to my baby/clones experiment. Which hasn't really been done, but I suspect the results would be predictable. Put two genetically identical clone babies with identical brain chemistry in identical rooms for 13 years, expose them to exactly the same stimuli in exactly the same ways at exactly the same times of day. Would they not behave and react in exactly the same ways at the same times, on everything? If not, why not, if the variables introduced in the two rooms is 0? The argument either becomes, "Well, there's a soul in there, that's where the free will is" or we really are no more than the sum of our memories/experiences. Of course it seems like we've got total control ("I COULD pick up and eat that donut, but I'm not going to!") at all times in our heads... but do we?