When did The Simpsons get bad?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Keep in mind, if it hadn't been stated before, Prowler's a few years younger than I am. He would have been too young to have experienced the anti-Simpsons hysteria. My wife is only one year younger than me, and she watched the show from the beginning but she completely missed all of the people being mad at it.

It was definitely a thing, but it came and went pretty fast and history doesn't really spend a lot of time on discussing the brief period where the show was "controversial". Most discussion about the history of the show only focuses on how it was an overnight sensation and changed TV forever and all that. They don't speak much of the year or so when Bart Simpson was every parent and teacher's worst enemy. Anyone who didn't see it up close as it was happening could be forgiven for not even knowing about it.

Especially since less than three years later, Beavis & Butt-Head came out and made The Simpsons seem positively quaint. That REALLY made parents and teachers feel foolish for ever being so uptight about The Simpsons of all things. They thought it was bad that suddenly kids were saying "damn" and "hell" because of Bart... and then they had to worry about their kids calling each other "butt-munch" and "dingleberry" and going around lighting fires.

If there was still any lingering "heat" on The Simpsons by 1993 among parents, teachers and churches... Beavis & Butt-Head pretty much put it all to bed immediately. But most people were done being mad at The Simpsons by then, anyway.

I remember an article or two complaining about Bart being an underachiever and proud or it, and the hell and damn and whatnot. I think the most dramatic example I personally experienced was the school banning people from wearing Bart Simpson shirts for a while.

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

No offense Wildcat but I feel like you're too loose with properties you love so much.

The Simpsons definitely dropped in quality from animation to writing to storytelling. I don't feel the show has much going for it anymore in terms of all three of what I mention and that's just what happens when it goes on for so long.

None taken. I do think the writing could use some updating cause every so often there’s episodes I just find boring.

Officially aging the characters would give it some depth and open up more storylines. I think that would really spark it up again.

About t-shirts. I wore a shirt to school once and my art teacher mentioned they didn’t allow them but it was ok because it was just Bart posing by himself.

I found it strange because the staff never brought up anything about The Simpsons being banned and I had worn it the entire day. Art was at the end and my main teacher never said a thing.

I had another shirt with Homer and apparently it was also ok since nobody brought it up either. Unless it was just my art teacher that didn’t like them.

[Leo656]

I ending up having two T-shirts and a sweatshirt that I wore to school a lot, but that was right after everything died down. By then, a teacher would sigh and be like, "You kids and your Bart Simpson" but they wouldn't raise a fuss. Anymore.

But in like 1990, kids on the playground would be wearing it under their sweatshirt and be like "Psst! C'mere!" and they'd pull up their sweatshirt and show you their Bart Simpson T-shirt as if they were smuggling Playboys or something. That's how 7-year olds "rebel".

And yeah, the "Underachiever and Proud of It" shirts were almost as big a fuss as the "I'm Bart Simpson, Who The Hell Are You?" shirts. Now, that one, I could kinda see, because technically "hell" still counted as profanity back then and I could understand that not being allowed in school. But they had to literally sit us down and explain to us why the "Underachiever" shirts were forbidden; "Because no one should ever want to be an 'underachiever', and we're about pushing you kids to be over-achievers, if anything. We are not trying to create a culture of failure, that's nothing to be 'proud' of."

It was still dumb, but I kinda understood the point. Especially because even though the general student population was merely average, our Talented & Gifted program was ranked the highest in the state by test scores, so I guess they were really trying to keep out any sort of "negative" influence or attitude.

And then one day it all just stopped and nobody cared anymore at all. Maybe some of the grown-ups actually sat and watched some episodes over Summer vacation and realized it wasn't actually "bad", I don't know.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

There had been cartoons for adults before such as The Flinstones and Betty Boop, but they were nothing like The Simpsons.

In fairness to The Flintstones, they did eventually grow characters like Pebbles and Bam Bam up. Those eras aren't particularly well remembered or reran at all, but they at least made the effort to change and evolve, before ultimately regressing to more 'iconic' status.

[AquaParade]

We should maybe all migrate to a Simpsons forum for a while.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I ending up having two T-shirts and a sweatshirt that I wore to school a lot, but that was right after everything died down. By then, a teacher would sigh and be like, "You kids and your Bart Simpson" but they wouldn't raise a fuss. Anymore.

But in like 1990, kids on the playground would be wearing it under their sweatshirt and be like "Psst! C'mere!" and they'd pull up their sweatshirt and show you their Bart Simpson T-shirt as if they were smuggling Playboys or something. That's how 7-year olds "rebel".

And yeah, the "Underachiever and Proud of It" shirts were almost as big a fuss as the "I'm Bart Simpson, Who The Hell Are You?" shirts. Now, that one, I could kinda see, because technically "hell" still counted as profanity back then and I could understand that not being allowed in school. But they had to literally sit us down and explain to us why the "Underachiever" shirts were forbidden; "Because no one should ever want to be an 'underachiever', and we're about pushing you kids to be over-achievers, if anything. We are not trying to create a culture of failure, that's nothing to be 'proud' of."

It was still dumb, but I kinda understood the point. Especially because even though the general student population was merely average, our Talented & Gifted program was ranked the highest in the state by test scores, so I guess they were really trying to keep out any sort of "negative" influence or attitude.

And the one day it all just stopped and nobody cared anymore at all. Maybe some of the grown-ups actually sat and watched some episodes over Summer vacation and realized it wasn't actually "bad", I don't know.

Lucky. I never had a Simpsons shirt til second hand stores finally started carrying them.

I do remember this odd trend of 'black versions' of the Simpsons on knockoff shirts. I remember back in the day there were people selling these shirts from the trunk of their cars. Stuff like black Simpsons, or Homer and even Fred Flinstone getting high and whatnot. I still remember the one of a stoned Fred Flinstone saying 'Yabba-Dabb-Doobie'. And occasionally on the bus or whatever I would run into people wearing the black Simpsons shirts.

Maybe it was a Chicago thing. We didn't have the internet back then so I had no idea of knowing if other cities were doing the same thing.

[superstaff]

I remember the anti-Simpsons hysteria. My school banned Simpsons memorabilia from being allowed on-site. And my mom was one of those mothers that banned The Simpsons in my house. Other things she banned me from watching during my childhood: TMNT (yep, lol), Power Rangers, playing video games, Batman, and so on. All of which had to indulge in in secret as a kid, teen, and even as an adult. She still makes snide comments that I better not be wasting my time watching those 'nasty cartoons' and playing those 'evil, violent video games'. Ah, the joys of having an overly religious mother...

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

In fairness to The Flintstones, they did eventually grow characters like Pebbles and Bam Bam up. Those eras aren't particularly well remembered or reran at all

Oh, I most definitely have fond memories of Grown-Up Pebbles. Mrowrrrr.

Their band was terrible.

Originally Posted by superstaff

Ah, the joys of having an overly religious mother...

Religion just does SO much good in this world. We definitely shouldn't force people to realize it's all fake so that we can all get on with our lives, no sir. Stuff's fine. Everything's awesome the way it is.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Religion just does SO much good in this world. We definitely shouldn't force people to realize it's all fake so that we can all get on with our lives, no sir. Stuff's fine. Everything's awesome the way it is.

There's nice religious people out there. They use the bible as a guideline, not as an instructional manual. Or they don't care for the bible, and just have a special bond with God.

I used to go to this nice little Catholic church a few years back. I'm Agnostic, but the atmosphere was nice, the people were generally nice (and also kept to themselves instead of getting up in my business), and it was cathartic to go somewhere I felt comfortable for religious discourse because I do find religion...interesting. I moved from that area, so I never went back after that.

On the flip side, I've been to a lot of awful churches, many of them Christian, that were the opposite of the church I described above.

[Leo656]

I knowwww, but the ratio is like 1 in a million Nice People to Complete Assholes and thus I'm just not sure it's worth it.

[Andrew NDB]

Eh. I'm an agnostic/atheist, but I'd way rather have a religious neighbor than any of these whackjobs high on the ideology of the left. A thousand times over. Getting rid of religion is great but nobody was prepared for what would take its place.

[superstaff]

I dunno. I've met people from both sides. I've met Atheists who would gladly give you their shirt off their back, and Religious who would throw you under a bus. I've known nice people from the left and right, and....the worst kinds of people as well.

And some people just change. They started off as amazing, interesting, kind people...and then they changed. My ex-boyfriend from high school was like that. Loved TMNT, anime, games (had the biggest gaming collection I've ever seen to this day). We were super close, and would tell each other everything. We broke up in 2004, fyi. But I looked him up in, like, 2016 or so via Facebook. So...he became a she, was now a Communist (back in high school, we used to discuss how bad Cuba was due to Communism since we were both of Cuban descent), had a pride and trans flag on his (er, her...) social media plus pronouns, aligned with Anita Sarkeesian on how bad Peach and Zelda were (I was so wtf on that since we used to love those characters), and.............so on.

That guy I dated and was best friends with was now gone. Like, completely gone. He might as well be dead and buried, and I know that sounds very morbid, but. Yeah. This is what happens when people's lives revolve around their politics. Also, for the record, I've seen the opposite where people become obsessed with religion/right wing politics as well. I think...many people are just prone to obsession and fanaticism so they gravitate towards different outlets to let it loose, so to speak. It seems to happen most with stuff like religion, politics, and the like. On a smaller scale, some people become obsessed with specific stuff like Star Trek.

[ZariusTwo]

I'm not hardcore fire and brimstone religious, but I believe in God and a divine plan, all the unrest of the world makes sense to me because of it. You just have to take delicate steps and make sure the people in your life are well loved and looked after, and how you measure up to them and other people. Sometimes you will stumble, fall, but you and others you trust will pick yourself up again.

...And I totally cribbed Snyder and Nolan for that. I'm a hack.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I dunno. I've met people from both sides. I've met Atheists who would gladly give you their shirt off their back, and Religious who would throw you under a bus. I've known nice people from the left and right, and....the worst kinds of people as well.

There's definitely religious whackjobs that are bothersome but the actual people radicalized on the far left... about 10 out of 10 of them are worse than those guys, that I've seen. Like, I can agree to disagree that there's a God or that the Bible is real or go "Yeah, yeah" to urgings to go to church and we can smile and get on with life vs. "You're a nazi bigot and a racist if your kindergartner child isn't taught about drag queens and my wife's boyfriend in the classroom!" Because now I'm actively wanting to punch said person in the face.

And some people just change. They started off as amazing, interesting, kind people...and then they changed. My ex-boyfriend from high school was like that. Loved TMNT, anime, games (had the biggest gaming collection I've ever seen to this day). We were super close, and would tell each other everything. We broke up in 2004, fyi. But I looked him up in, like, 2016 or so via Facebook. So...he became a she, was now a Communist (back in high school, we used to discuss how bad Cuba was due to Communism since we were both of Cuban descent), had a pride and trans flag on his (er, her...) social media plus pronouns, aligned with Anita Sarkeesian on how bad Peach and Zelda were (I was so wtf on that since we used to love those characters), and.............so on.

Jesus! What did you do to that guy? Poor bastard!

That guy I dated and was best friends with was now gone. Like, completely gone. He might as well be dead and buried, and I know that sounds very morbid, but. Yeah. This is what happens when people's lives revolve around their politics. Also, for the record, I've seen the opposite where people become obsessed with religion/right wing politics as well. I think...many people are just prone to obsession and fanaticism so they gravitate towards different outlets to let it loose, so to speak. It seems to happen most with stuff like religion, politics, and the like. On a smaller scale, some people become obsessed with specific stuff like Star Trek.

I wouldn't call myself obsessed with politics. I didn't even care about politics until war was basically declared on the arts by the left. Seemingly overnight, all the things that I love most became used as weapons and tools to suit their sick agenda to indoctrinate children to their cause ("salty manbaby tears" being an added bonus).

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Jesus! What did you do to that guy? Poor bastard!

It was probably me beating him in Super Smash Bros Melee, lol

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by superstaff

It was probably me beating him in Super Smash Bros Melee, lol

To be fair, "TMNT fandom" (you mentioned he was a fan) and "mental health" don't really go hand in hand in most circles. Then you went and broke his her heart, on top of that.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

To be fair, "TMNT fandom" (you mentioned he was a fan) and "mental health" don't really go hand in hand in most circles.

Nailed it.

Not to be an Absolute Dick but it's like, you go on the He-Man forum and it's mostly Very Wealthy People (or at least well-off) who have a healthy family life and a good job, enough money to own a large house and have entire rooms in said house dedicated to their insanely-large action figure collections. Doctors and lawyers and accountants and so on. There's a ton of "arrested development" and they tend to skew pretty Left more often than not, and they tend to not have very deep critical thinking when it comes to entertainment (lots of "Like Everything or you're a big meanie")... but they are all overwhelmingly "normal" people. They speak and present well, and a lot of them have a lot of money.

And then there's This Place, where you've got one or two "Normal People" and a whole ton of TigerClaws. More autists than not, more 40-year old virgins than not, more incels than not, more people who'll never have a job that pays more than thirty grand a year than not, more people whose only "friends" are on their computer screen than not.

I can't help but notice that the most "hardcore" TMNT fans are not very well-adjusted people. I know that sounds awful, but I can only Observe & Report.

It's like a cartoon show about outcasts and misfits... predominantly attracted an audience of outcasts & misfits, and they stayed that way forever instead of Growing Up. Maybe some of them physically/mentally couldn't or can't. I empathize. But it's still rather tragic on its face.

I can't stand a lot of people in any "fandom", I just know which group of nerds I'd rather actually sit and have a beer with, is all.

I know, I'm a dick.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I'm not hardcore fire and brimstone religious, but I believe in God and a divine plan, all the unrest of the world makes sense to me because of it.

Not to me! All I hear is, "All the suffering and misery in the world is on purpose," and to me that is a TERRIBLE "plan." Nah, I can't vote for that.

Any God who wants everyone miserable all the time and does nothing to mitigate the suffering even though it's supposedly in their power to do so... I definitely want nothing to do with That Guy. Not in this life or the next.

Pretty sure the whole reason God put me on a path to Hell is that if I ever made it to Heaven I'd absolutely try and get my hands around his neck. Because he's got a lot to answer for, in my opinion.

No eternal reward could ever be worth the sh*t people go through. None. It's unthinkable.

But that's just the way I see it.

[Andrew NDB]

Gun to my head, if I was asked "who are the top two TMNT fans in the fandom?" I think I would have to come up with two names. A "King" and "Queen" of the fandom, as it were. Both of them are long gone, mentally. Their lives in literal and obvious ruin.

Which isn't to say that's all fans. It's not. But maybe it's a benchmark/testament to where "I want to be a TMNT superfan of all things TMNT!" ends up, sooner or later.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

No eternal reward could ever be worth the sh*t people go through. None. It's unthinkable.

Well if the J man could go through his own hell in the prime of his presence on Earth, that was to demonstrate everyone will face similar challenges, that's what creates the people that pass into legend.

I don't think there's necessarily a 'hell' not nowadays, I'm big on forgiveness and I reckon whatever passes for God in spirit is too. I think your soul, if troubled, is simply reincarnated, put back on Earth with the hopes of a better experience, if you so choose to. Some souls may not choose to do this and drift elsewhere, born into new experiences in other dimensions/universes, to experience different manner of civilisation and occupations, but I don't think they suffer eternally for making that choice

[Leo656]

Whatever gets people through the day, I guess.

For me, it's Hot Chicks With Nice Boobs. But I guess some people need other stuff.