Doctor Strange 2

[sdp]

Love or hate the MCU, End Game was the peak, it'll slowly become less relevant over the next few years, it won't be a sharp fall but slowly over time. This is regardless of it's better than ever or worse than ever or just the same.

Nothing lasts forever.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by superstaff

And X-Men '92/'97 is not connected to the MCU or the Fox X-Men movies, nor is the Stewart Xavier involved. So why is it in a MCU movie aside from empty fanservice?

Maybe because they intend to use it or a version of it when they do their first real X-Men movie. I would, if I were them.

Originally Posted by sdp

Love or hate the MCU, End Game was the peak, it'll slowly become less relevant over the next few years, it won't be a sharp fall but slowly over time. This is regardless of it's better than ever or worse than ever or just the same.

Nothing lasts forever.

You people have been saying that for years. If anything, they're becoming more relevant in the post-COVID landscape. At a certain point, though, yeah, they will need to start building up to some kind of payoff. The only things I see them doing right now is setting the stage for some kind of new or younger Avengers (Yelena, Kate Bishop, Ms. Marvel, US Agent, etc.) and the arrival of Galactus.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

You people have been saying that for years. If anything, they're becoming more relevant in the post-COVID landscape. At a certain point, though, yeah, they will need to start building up to some kind of payoff. The only things I see them doing right now is setting the stage for some kind of new or younger Avengers (Yelena, Kate Bishop, Ms. Marvel, US Agent, etc.) and the arrival of Galactus.

What have they done to build up Galactus?

As of right now, they're doing a poor job of building up to a new plotline. They don't seem to know what they want to do. Their new Avengers are very disconnected from each other, too, being scattered amongst TV shows and the like.

And honestly, I don't think they will use Kate or Kamala in a main Avengers things, so they'll likely do a TV show/movie for Young Avengers instead... As for Yelena, John, and the other characters, they've barely been relevant. They've been mostly side characters, not even leads of their own shows/movies. Shang-Chi is the only one they've properly inoculated as of yet because the after credit of his movie showed him being introduced to Bruce, Wong, and Carol (and I love Bruce's line of "welcome to the circus"). Maybe this is a huge part of why I actually liked Shang-Chi, it felt like it was a 'part of something', and felt more like a classic MCU (intro) movie with a fish out of water protag learning more about his powers/background, whereas the other MCU movies lately feel incredibly disconnected from each other, and from a greater plot to build towards.

[ZariusTwo]

The post-credits scene making mention of

Spoiler:

'incursion'

lends me to think

Spoiler:

the endgame of the next few phases is an adaptation of 2015 Secret Wars

[Sumac]

I like MCU movies, they are becoming dumber and dumber, and I watch fewer of them as a result, but there are some still genuinely good ones, like No Way Home, which completely blew me away, in a good way, which is rarity, when it comes to superhero movies and blockbusters in general.

I haven't watched Eternals and Black Widow, neither I intent to, since I haven't heard anything good about either.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by superstaff

What have they done to build up Galactus?

The death of the Celestial inside the Earth opens it up as fair game for Galactus to consume.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The death of the Celestial inside the Earth opens it up as fair game for Galactus to consume.

They've already alluded to other stuff as well, that's not the point.

They haven't been building up a storyline at all. In Phase One, they built up the formation of the Avengers leading into that movie. Then they began to build Thanos. They had goals in mind when they did these things, they weren't just throwing stuff at the wall like they seem to be doing now.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by superstaff

They've already alluded to other stuff as well, that's not the point.

They haven't been building up a storyline at all. In Phase One, they built up the formation of the Avengers leading into that movie. Then they began to build Thanos. They had goals in mind when they did these things, they weren't just throwing stuff at the wall like they seem to be doing now.

That's how I feel like about current MCU stuff: Its aimless. There is no goal in sight.

Maybe it was a Fox acquisition, which threw their plans off, by "forcing" them to add X-Men or they just never figured out what to do after Endgame in general, but it really feels, like they don't have any idea, what to do in the future.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Sumac

That's how I feel like about current MCU stuff: Its aimless. There is no goal in sight.

Maybe it was a Fox acquisition, which threw their plans off, by "forcing" them to add X-Men or they just never figured out what to do after Endgame in general, but it really feels, like they don't have any idea, what to do in the future.

Yes, precisely. I think they either never planned anything past End Game, which would be foolish if they didn't but alas, or the Fox acquisition made them abandon whatever ideas they had, and are now trying to smush the X-Men and FF in. Either way, it's clear that they have no actual goal now.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw Doctor Strange 2. I'm underwhelmed.

Spoiler:

It doesn't advance anyone's story. Doctor Strange's whole arc in the movie is basically just he goes from mildly regretting how things ended up with Christine after cuckolding her at her wedding to kind of resolving to patch things up with her somehow... but then he doesn't even get to do that. I mean, that's it, right? Did I miss anything else?

Wanda gets resolution from Wandavision, I guess, and gives up the ghost about her FAKE kids. But that's all. And then they kill her. Though not even so much as a name drop of Vision at all or even her dead brother. Wouldn't she also want a universe where her twin brother and husband are OK, too? Weird!

And yeah, very underwhelming. It'd be one thing if it was just "Doctor Strange 2." But it's the "Multiverse of Madness." He visits a grand total of two other universes in the movie and one of them only has an alternate Doctor Strange in it. I can definitely surmise that the Illuminati were what they did all the big reshoots to include. If you take out their whole involvement it would barely impact the film at all. And think about it... what really did we get out of this movie? What new thing or building block was established? There's nothing. It just gave us Captain Two Moms with her doe eyes and that's about it. Presumably she'll get her own movie or Disney+ show where she goes and rescues her 2 moms, so it's like this movie only exists to make more than 5 people want to see that.

I don't want to beat a drum too much about what I expected or hoped would be in the movie (appearances from the whole X-Men lineup, both generations, Nic Cage Ghost Rider, some Punishers other than Bernthal, either or both of the two last Fantastic Four bunches, but certainly at least something quick with Deadpool... what other movie would serve as a better peekaboo intro for him into the MCU?) but I guess I was just expecting it would be more than "not one thing."

One thing that IS kind of neat is the clue they dropped about the Fantastic Four. Doctor Strange indicated the Fantastic Four were last trending in the 1960s... which suggests the rumors that the MCU Fantastic Four would start out in the past (like say, the 1960s) and end up time-travelling to the present are going to turn out to be true.

[superstaff]

Yep, I read some extensive summaries of it, including yours, Andrew. See what I mean? The movies have gotten so poorly written. I was actually a little surprised by how sloppy Doc Strange 2 was. I almost feel like the shows and movies are intentionally trolling audiences with multi-verse stuff now. Not just that, I feel like there's this distinct lack of real creativity with these films. Like, Multiverse of Madness could have been a true acid trip of a movie, and not just with the cameos, but how they portray Strange and the side cast. I feel like we got a good taste of that with Sony's Spider-verse because it dared to bring in some true weirdos into Miles' world, and now they are doing a trek through multiple worlds (based on the teaser). This movie, and the MCU as a whole, has been super disappointing. The only Phase Four things I've liked at all have been Shang-Chi and Hawkeye. Loki came close, though the ending really crapped the show's bed.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Yep, I read some extensive summaries of it, including yours, Andrew. See what I mean? The movies have gotten so poorly written. I was actually a little surprised by how sloppy Doc Strange 2 was. I almost feel like the shows and movies are intentionally trolling audiences with multi-verse stuff now. Not just that, I feel like there's this distinct lack of real creativity with these films. Like, Multiverse of Madness could have been a true acid trip of a movie, and not just with the cameos, but how they portray Strange and the side cast. I feel like we got a good taste of that with Sony's Spider-verse because it dared to bring in some true weirdos into Miles' world, and now they are doing a trek through multiple worlds (based on the teaser). This movie, and the MCU as a whole, has been super disappointing. The only Phase Four things I've liked at all have been Shang-Chi and Hawkeye. Loki came close, though the ending really crapped the show's bed.

It could and should have been an acid trip of a movie. But they refused to have Strange barely take any sort of trip at all.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It could and should have been an acid trip of a movie. But they refused to have Strange barely take any sort of trip at all.

It's like what I said, a lack of true creativity and vision. It makes me wonder how much say Raimi had. I think he's done some crazy crap in the past, even in his Spider-Man movies. Yet this movie seems very bland in comparison. Not only that but the writing feels very off. I don't think Raimi wrote this, nor had much say in the script. Or maybe Raimi was 'off' during this production for some reason.

[AquaParade]

This movie has a lot going for it, but I’m starting to feel the same about every recent MCU project. Even with their strengths, they just feel so rushed and factory-produced. It’s odd, because at the same time, they are clearly made with so much love and passion.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the MCU, but I do think it is spread too thin and moving too fast. It doesn’t feel like the scripts or the effects are getting enough time in the oven, which is undercutting all the great actors, characters, and world building they have created.
I find myself missing the Russo Brothers, because they seem to be able to work well under this type of high-pressure situation. Either that or they are being given more freedom.

All that said, I think Raimi brought a lot to this film. Glad to have him back on the scene and I hope he gets to do a Spider-Man movie for Sony, because he may operate better over there.

I am going to watch this again before judging it. There was a lot I liked. A ton of fun and ridiculous moments made me laugh in joy. I just know it’s a mixed bag for me.

[Leo656]

Just going by Observe & Report - I don't watch these movies, but I do read about them - I'd expect that since the MCU's big "Let's try something different" movie failed in "The Eternals", they're only going to lean more into mass-produced cookie-cutter fast food-type of things. They tried "Serious and Dramatic" and lo and behold, MCU fans do not want that. They want theme park rides.

The audience has shown that they're willing to forgive a whole lot, as long as the action is frenetic and there's plenty of fanservice. If anything I think it'll get worse before it gets better. Especially now that every single thing they do ends up being just a commercial for The Next Thing They Do.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah these idiots would rather waste time and money all for the sake of 'the message'.

The real problem is the over reliance on China. I don't care if America Chavez has 10 dads. If you're gonna throw that line in there tell China to lick your balls and swallow your shaft and keep the line in there internationally.

After watching the movie, it was kind of a waste of time. Sure, America had two moms, but it was the father figure, Stephen Strange, that steps up to the plate. And, considering this whole She-Marvel, it was a woman wanting to kill America and two men were the ones that were trying to save her.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Spoiler:

One thing that IS kind of neat is the clue they dropped about the Fantastic Four. Doctor Strange indicated the Fantastic Four were last trending in the 1960s... which suggests the rumors that the MCU Fantastic Four would start out in the past (like say, the 1960s) and end up time-traveling to the present are going to turn out to be true.

Spoiler:

Strange asked if the Fantastic Four charted in the 60s. It was a joke. He thought the name was ridiculous and sounded like a 60s era band name.

[Andrew NDB]

Gah. Just a gag, then? I take it back and that was lame, then.

Also, I just realized they changed Wanda's costume from the end of Wandavision. They covered her arms. Too male gazey, I guess.

[AquaParade]

New costume looked better. Definitely her best look yet imo. Not really tripping on not being able to gaze at her arms, but that’s just me. And thank goodness the awkward titty-shots from the Whedon films are gone. It’s just awkward when you use a scene of your character breaking down, at the loss of her brother, to get a nice long view down her shirt. Tasteless and distracting.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Not really tripping on not being able to gaze at her arms, but that’s just me.

How nice of you to make it clear you are absolved from male-gazing. Consider yourself in the clear. No need to say another word. You're good, man. No one will come after you now that you said that, promise.

But hey, Elizabeth Olsen is gorgeous. We are all aware. I'm not like looking to stare at extra skin just because. They gave her her "kind of" Scarlet Witch costume in Civil War and that was fine. After that she got her super conservative Scarlet Witch garb in Infinity War. Cool, fine. Even at that point myself (and apparently Elizabeth Olsen herself, according to interviews) ruled out even the possibility of her donning anything resembling the sort of classic Scarlet Witch costume based on what she understood of what TPTB had in mind for her. Which was also fine, I don't think myself or many others were counting on much more than that. But then they actually did it in Wandavision and it was a huge moment and it worked. Sure there's bare arms but they even went and removed all of the cleavage seen from the previous outfits in the MCU. Aesthetically it worked well. I guess you could call it a compromise of sorts of a reveal we never thought we'd get. But then they walked it back a little. I'm not fighting for the arms here, I'm just pointing out what seems like an obvious stupid sticky note from people that shouldn't be heeded but was.

"Multiverse of Madness" Wanda says, "Thanks for removing the cleavage. But I'll take those arms, too, please."