What's your general opinion on Indie games? What are your favourites?

*Prowler* · 05-07-2022, 06:20 PM

There's a lot of those nowadays. In today's digital era it's easier than ever for those games to reach their audience.

Well, like any other game there's good and bad indie games. Some I like and others I don't.

A lot of them, while solid, don't have a lot of content. But they're usually so cheap anyway.

But there's others that surprisingly have a lot of content and you can easily sink over a 100 hours into. Like Stardew Valley for example. That game has a massive online fanbase even. It's been a while since I've played it but it's very addicting.

I also like Cuphead and Shovel Knight. But they're pretty difficult lol

So yeah, those are the 3 indie games I've spent the most time with and the ones that have impressed me the most.

What about you?

~~Leo656~~ · 05-07-2022, 07:51 PM

No real opinion, in all honesty I don't play a lot of them. But I'm glad they exist for those who like and play them.

Although I've been playing this dumb little game called Wrestling Empire once in a while lately, after watching a video about it on Wrestling Bios. It's... kinda lousy, very slow and clunky. But it's actually kind of impressive simply because one guy made the entire thing by himself. It's not "good" but it's a lot better than you'd expect something like that to be, and there's fun to be had if you just wanna kill a couple minutes.

It's kinda like Fire Pro in that almost all the wrestlers are very blatantly based on real-life wrestlers from different federations and eras, just with their names changed and some different costuming. And it's kind of an homage to the old N64 wrestling games even though it doesn't control the same, but like presentation-wise. There's a Career and Management mode complete with text-based promo and cutscenes, and if you go into Free Roam before your match you can wander around at like the Subway or on the streets outside the arena and whatnot, picking up food to restore your health or pick fights with random characters walking around. In Career you can start rivalries, sign contracts with various different promotions for different amounts of money and creative control... sometimes weird stuff will happen, like I accidentally signed a terrible contract right out of Wrestling School, since I really needed the money badly (your funds dwindle week-to-week until you sign a good contract, and if you go broke I think the game ends), and since I had no creative control the very first thing the promoter did was stick me in an ugly outfit which I couldn't change in the Menu; thankfully, after I won a few matches, a different company offered me a much better deal and I took that one. Stuff like that is pretty cool.

It's kinda neat. It just takes some getting used to. I've only played it on my phone so far, I imagine the Steam version with a controller would be a lot better but I didn't feel like paying $20 for it, so I just got the free version for my phone even though you only have like half the roster available in that version.

Not especially "good", but fun in a weird way.

Do PopCap still count? I remember I played some of their stuff on Xbox Live Arcade back in the day when I first got my 360. Some of those were okay.

*Prowler* · 05-07-2022, 08:10 PM

I've heard of Wrestling Empire but I've never felt compelled to buy it. Let alone play it.

No idea what PopCap is.

Anyway the indies market is huge. Some of the best games are actually quite impressive considering they come from independent studios and don't have very high budgets I assume.

Some would say indie games are the best part of the industry today but I wouldn't go that far.

~~Leo656~~ · 05-07-2022, 08:15 PM

PopCap was apparently who did Bejeweled and Peggle and Plants vs. Zombies and stuff like that. EA bought them in 2011 but before that I guess they were indie.

I used to mess with Bejeweled and Feeding Frenzy a lot back in the day.

*Prowler* · 05-07-2022, 08:17 PM

And yet another company gets absorbed and destroyed by EA. Unbelievable.

So those are the guys who created Bejeweled huh?

~~Leo656~~ · 05-07-2022, 08:25 PM

Apparently. I got my 360 in 2009 and I remembered seeing the PopCap logo on a lot of the indie games I'd play on it, but I couldn't remember which games they'd actually made and so I had to look it up.

I have no idea what they did after EA bought them. To be honest, I only even know the stuff I know of because my 360 came loaded with a bunch of demos, some of which I later got the full game of and others I didn't bother. Bejeweled being one of those that I ended up buying.

But if it's an indie game and wasn't pre-loaded on my 360 back in 2009, I probably haven't played it.

*Prowler* · 05-07-2022, 08:28 PM

I didn't start giving indie games a shot until I got on Steam. The 3DS also had some cool ones such as Shovel Knight.

The more games the better. Hard for there to be a 3d indie game that's a masterpiece yet. But 2d ones such as Shovel Knight certainly give the best Mega Man and Castlevania games a run for their money.

Mad Dog McMutt · 05-07-2022, 09:56 PM

I thought Hollow Knight was awful even though I love metroidvanias. I am apparently the only person with that opinion. Shovel Knight was good, but very short. I thought Cuphead was a lot of fun as well as a good but fair challenge. Super Meat Boy was fun, but a little too hard for my liking. I think those are all the ones I played.

*Prowler* · 05-07-2022, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Dog McMutt

I thought Hollow Knight was awful even though I love metroidvanias. I am apparently the only person with that opinion. Shovel Knight was good, but very short. I thought Cuphead was a lot of fun as well as a good but fair challenge. Super Meat Boy was fun, but a little too hard for my liking. I think those are all the ones I played.

Is Hollow Knight any similar to Shovel Knight?

I couldn't get past a certain stage/boss in Shovel Knight. Therefore I was unable to beat the game.

Super Meat Boy never appealed to me.

Mad Dog McMutt · 05-07-2022, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Is Hollow Knight any similar to Shovel Knight?

I couldn't get past a certain stage/boss in Shovel Knight. Therefore I was unable to beat the game.

Super Meat Boy never appealed to me.

Hollow Knight is a metroidvania style game with a frustrating map system. Shovel Knight is a get to the end of the level style platformer.

*Turo602* · 05-08-2022, 12:37 AM

I'm okay with indie games. There's too many to keep track of and while I'm sure a lot are fun, it does get to a point where it feels like oversaturation. So I only really pay attention to the more high profile indie stuff because there's a lot of shovelware out there or just a lot of the same type of stuff.

I think the first indie game I ever played or actually enjoyed was Castle Crashers back on the 360. Outside of that, I didn't really pay a lot of attention to indie stuff. I even remember there being an annoying pretentious movement at the time of indie only gamers. There were some stuff that caught my attention like Fez, Super Meat Boy, and Shovel Knight, but they weren't exactly high up on my priorities. I was more interested in all the retro digital releases and remakes of that era.

Lately though, indie games have become a lot harder to ignore because of how much talent and attention they have on them now that every major video game studio is looking to make the next big triple A game. Indie games have been padding out releases and a lot of them have actually been quite appealing to me such as Ori and the Blind Forest and its sequel which I have yet to play but have heard nothing but good things about. It was the first non-Metroid Metroidvania I've ever played and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it that it's since opened me up to the possibility of trying other Metroidvanias.

I never played Banjo-Kazooie, but I am a fan of 3D platformers, so when I heard the original team at Rare was making a spiritual successor I was on board. Yooka-Laylee was alright, especially after all the patches. It wasn't a perfect game and from what I hear, didn't entirely live up to Banjo-Kazooie, but it was still a fun time. The sequel on the other hand went in an entirely different direction by acting as a spiritual successor to Donkey Kong Country and was met with much more acclaim. I have yet to finish it, but from what I have played, I can definitely say this was the right direction for them to take and would love to see where Playtonic takes Yooka-Laylee next.

Super Lucky's Tale on the other hand I really enjoyed as a 3D platformer with both its original and New Super Lucky's Tale iterations. It's just such a simple easy going experience. I guess the best way to describe it is as an entry level 3D platformer. Easy for kids to get into, but complex and varied enough for adults to enjoy. I think it originally started out as a VR game and has then grown more on consoles. But I'd love to see this grow into a series with bigger and better sequels. I feel like there was an attempt to revitalize 3D platformers around 2017, but with Crash Bandicoot 4 flopping, no new Spyro game to capitalize on the trilogy, and Mario taking such a long hiatus, it has just kinda died down.

But another genre I've really gotten into are puzzle platformers thanks to games like Limbo, Inside, and Little Nightmares. They're not the longest games, moreso Limbo and Inside, but they're games you don't forget long after you've experienced them. They're rich with atmosphere and tell their stories entirely through subtext, leaving you with a lot to think about and speculate over when you're done with them, or if you're like me, just look up on YouTube and be blown away by the crazy bits of lore you missed and interesting theories.

The only other indie game I can think of that really grabbed me is State of Decay. I've always longed for a survival horror experience that was open-world that let you scavenge interiors for supplies and where cars were a valuable resource, so when I first played State of Decay, it felt like it was made for me. While it doesn't have much in way of its story and characters, it does offer a unique zombie game experience that just leaves you to your own devices.

It actually reminded me a lot of Breath of the Wild in that way. I spent a lot of time just exploring and gathering resources and trying to grow and protect my community of survivors. It was almost as addicting as Breath of the Wild with how you get stuck in a constant loop of finding too many interesting things at a time that you find yourself playing longer than you should have. This loop is actually genius in a game like this because you're also trying to level up your survivor and not be perma-killed by zombies, which creates a lot of tension during exploration and combat.

Being an indie game though, it is rough around the edges, but its extremely forgivable given the game's big ideas that despite working with a smaller budget, were still executed really well. I have yet to play the 2nd game which originally launched not so hot but has since transformed into a much more polished and beloved experience. The studio has since been bought by Xbox and I couldn't be happier to see what this team can do with more money and resources backing them. After playing Red Dead Redemption II, I've always thought its gameplay flow served as a perfect template for an open-world survival game, and it seems the studio is indeed taking their inspiration from there which is only good news.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-08-2022, 03:27 AM

I am glad that indie exist, as they provide necessary contrast with AAA titles and breath of diversity and creativity to the stale VG scene.

They suffer from similar problem - overabundance of similar concepts, like metroidlikes and walking simulators. Some of them are undercooked or stuck in development for years only to eventually be released in an unfinished state.

But all in all, as always, if the game is good it is hailed. If not - it burns.

*Prowler* · 05-08-2022, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Dog McMutt

Hollow Knight is a metroidvania style game with a frustrating map system. Shovel Knight is a get to the end of the level style platformer.

I personally don't see the appeal of Metroidvania style games.

Super Metroid is very good and all, but it's not a personal favourite of mine. And all the backtracking can be a bit annoying at times. And that's apparently a top 3 game that uses that formula. So I'm not sure I'd really like an indie game that might barely crack a top 20 of all time best Metroidvania style games.

Mad Dog McMutt · 05-08-2022, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

I personally don't see the appeal of Metroidvania style games.

Super Metroid is very good and all, but it's not a personal favourite of mine. And all the backtracking can be a bit annoying at times. And that's apparently a top 3 game that uses that formula. So I'm not sure I'd really like an indie game that might barely crack a top 20 of all time best Metroidvania style games.

I love metroidvania games mostly because I can play through most of the games without getting stuck or lost and having to look up what to do. I find myself always getting stuck at least a couple of times during most adventure games except for metroidvania games. I also love upgrading the character with more health and weapons. I own around 20 metroidvania games and Hollow Knight is the only one that I don't like. It was more frustrating than fun. If I am going to beat a difficult game then it ought to be fun.

*Turo602* · 05-09-2022, 12:10 AM

I never understood people's gripes with backtracking in video games, especially in games like Resident Evil and Metroidvanias where it's deliberately designed around exploration. It's just like a puzzle, no different than Zelda games. You find an item and that item is essentially a key to new areas you couldn't access before. Pretty standard adventure game design. The only difference, traversal and combat in Metroidvanias is achieved via side-scrolling and therefore can take advantage of other side-scrolling staples like platforming and shooting.

*Prowler* · 05-09-2022, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602

I never understood people's gripes with backtracking in video games, especially in games like Resident Evil and Metroidvanias where it's deliberately designed around exploration. It's just like a puzzle, no different than Zelda games. You find an item and that item is essentially a key to new areas you couldn't access before. Pretty standard adventure game design. The only difference, traversal and combat in Metroidvanias is achieved via side-scrolling and therefore can take advantage of other side-scrolling staples like platforming and shooting.

I mean you're right. You also technically back tracked in the N64 platformers such as Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie. And I loved those games back in the 90s. Just like I love Resident Evil REmake.

I think Super Metroid is a good game and all, but I don't love it. And I cannot explain why.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-09-2022, 01:01 AM

I dislike metroid-like games, because, I prefer straightforward platformers. Metroid-likes are pretty boring to me, thanks to backtracking and mediocre design of the levels (not structurally, but stylistically). In platformers, levels can tell story through the design, in metroid-likes they are just "locations, which look distinct from others".

And I hate backtracking in all of its shapes and forms. Its just boring element, which created just to eat your time in a game in a cheap way.

*Prowler* · 05-09-2022, 01:22 PM

So I've just read that Stardew Valley has sold over 20 million copies.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...million-copies

13 million alone on PC. I personally own it on Switch. It's a very good game for the Switch, imo.

Is this the highest selling indie game to date?

05-07-2022, 06:20 PM	#1
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	What's your general opinion on Indie games? What are your favourites? There's a lot of those nowadays. In today's digital era it's easier than ever for those games to reach their audience. Well, like any other game there's good and bad indie games. Some I like and others I don't. A lot of them, while solid, don't have a lot of content. But they're usually so cheap anyway. But there's others that surprisingly have a lot of content and you can easily sink over a 100 hours into. Like Stardew Valley for example. That game has a massive online fanbase even. It's been a while since I've played it but it's very addicting. I also like Cuphead and Shovel Knight. But they're pretty difficult lol So yeah, those are the 3 indie games I've spent the most time with and the ones that have impressed me the most. What about you?

05-07-2022, 07:51 PM	#2
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	No real opinion, in all honesty I don't play a lot of them. But I'm glad they exist for those who like and play them. Although I've been playing this dumb little game called Wrestling Empire once in a while lately, after watching a video about it on Wrestling Bios. It's... kinda lousy, very slow and clunky. But it's actually kind of impressive simply because one guy made the entire thing by himself. It's not "good" but it's a lot better than you'd expect something like that to be, and there's fun to be had if you just wanna kill a couple minutes. It's kinda like Fire Pro in that almost all the wrestlers are very blatantly based on real-life wrestlers from different federations and eras, just with their names changed and some different costuming. And it's kind of an homage to the old N64 wrestling games even though it doesn't control the same, but like presentation-wise. There's a Career and Management mode complete with text-based promo and cutscenes, and if you go into Free Roam before your match you can wander around at like the Subway or on the streets outside the arena and whatnot, picking up food to restore your health or pick fights with random characters walking around. In Career you can start rivalries, sign contracts with various different promotions for different amounts of money and creative control... sometimes weird stuff will happen, like I accidentally signed a terrible contract right out of Wrestling School, since I really needed the money badly (your funds dwindle week-to-week until you sign a good contract, and if you go broke I think the game ends), and since I had no creative control the very first thing the promoter did was stick me in an ugly outfit which I couldn't change in the Menu; thankfully, after I won a few matches, a different company offered me a much better deal and I took that one. Stuff like that is pretty cool. It's kinda neat. It just takes some getting used to. I've only played it on my phone so far, I imagine the Steam version with a controller would be a lot better but I didn't feel like paying $20 for it, so I just got the free version for my phone even though you only have like half the roster available in that version. Not especially "good", but fun in a weird way. Do PopCap still count? I remember I played some of their stuff on Xbox Live Arcade back in the day when I first got my 360. Some of those were okay. Last edited by Leo656; 05-07-2022 at 08:11 PM.

05-08-2022, 12:37 AM	#11
Turo602 The King of Kings Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,931	I'm okay with indie games. There's too many to keep track of and while I'm sure a lot are fun, it does get to a point where it feels like oversaturation. So I only really pay attention to the more high profile indie stuff because there's a lot of shovelware out there or just a lot of the same type of stuff. I think the first indie game I ever played or actually enjoyed was Castle Crashers back on the 360. Outside of that, I didn't really pay a lot of attention to indie stuff. I even remember there being an annoying pretentious movement at the time of indie only gamers. There were some stuff that caught my attention like Fez, Super Meat Boy, and Shovel Knight, but they weren't exactly high up on my priorities. I was more interested in all the retro digital releases and remakes of that era. Lately though, indie games have become a lot harder to ignore because of how much talent and attention they have on them now that every major video game studio is looking to make the next big triple A game. Indie games have been padding out releases and a lot of them have actually been quite appealing to me such as Ori and the Blind Forest and its sequel which I have yet to play but have heard nothing but good things about. It was the first non-Metroid Metroidvania I've ever played and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it that it's since opened me up to the possibility of trying other Metroidvanias. I never played Banjo-Kazooie, but I am a fan of 3D platformers, so when I heard the original team at Rare was making a spiritual successor I was on board. Yooka-Laylee was alright, especially after all the patches. It wasn't a perfect game and from what I hear, didn't entirely live up to Banjo-Kazooie, but it was still a fun time. The sequel on the other hand went in an entirely different direction by acting as a spiritual successor to Donkey Kong Country and was met with much more acclaim. I have yet to finish it, but from what I have played, I can definitely say this was the right direction for them to take and would love to see where Playtonic takes Yooka-Laylee next. Super Lucky's Tale on the other hand I really enjoyed as a 3D platformer with both its original and New Super Lucky's Tale iterations. It's just such a simple easy going experience. I guess the best way to describe it is as an entry level 3D platformer. Easy for kids to get into, but complex and varied enough for adults to enjoy. I think it originally started out as a VR game and has then grown more on consoles. But I'd love to see this grow into a series with bigger and better sequels. I feel like there was an attempt to revitalize 3D platformers around 2017, but with Crash Bandicoot 4 flopping, no new Spyro game to capitalize on the trilogy, and Mario taking such a long hiatus, it has just kinda died down. But another genre I've really gotten into are puzzle platformers thanks to games like Limbo, Inside, and Little Nightmares. They're not the longest games, moreso Limbo and Inside, but they're games you don't forget long after you've experienced them. They're rich with atmosphere and tell their stories entirely through subtext, leaving you with a lot to think about and speculate over when you're done with them, or if you're like me, just look up on YouTube and be blown away by the crazy bits of lore you missed and interesting theories. The only other indie game I can think of that really grabbed me is State of Decay. I've always longed for a survival horror experience that was open-world that let you scavenge interiors for supplies and where cars were a valuable resource, so when I first played State of Decay, it felt like it was made for me. While it doesn't have much in way of its story and characters, it does offer a unique zombie game experience that just leaves you to your own devices. It actually reminded me a lot of Breath of the Wild in that way. I spent a lot of time just exploring and gathering resources and trying to grow and protect my community of survivors. It was almost as addicting as Breath of the Wild with how you get stuck in a constant loop of finding too many interesting things at a time that you find yourself playing longer than you should have. This loop is actually genius in a game like this because you're also trying to level up your survivor and not be perma-killed by zombies, which creates a lot of tension during exploration and combat. Being an indie game though, it is rough around the edges, but its extremely forgivable given the game's big ideas that despite working with a smaller budget, were still executed really well. I have yet to play the 2nd game which originally launched not so hot but has since transformed into a much more polished and beloved experience. The studio has since been bought by Xbox and I couldn't be happier to see what this team can do with more money and resources backing them. After playing Red Dead Redemption II, I've always thought its gameplay flow served as a perfect template for an open-world survival game, and it seems the studio is indeed taking their inspiration from there which is only good news. __________________

05-09-2022, 12:10 AM	#15
Turo602 The King of Kings Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,931	I never understood people's gripes with backtracking in video games, especially in games like Resident Evil and Metroidvanias where it's deliberately designed around exploration. It's just like a puzzle, no different than Zelda games. You find an item and that item is essentially a key to new areas you couldn't access before. Pretty standard adventure game design. The only difference, traversal and combat in Metroidvanias is achieved via side-scrolling and therefore can take advantage of other side-scrolling staples like platforming and shooting. __________________

05-07-2022, 08:10 PM	#3
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	I've heard of Wrestling Empire but I've never felt compelled to buy it. Let alone play it. No idea what PopCap is. Anyway the indies market is huge. Some of the best games are actually quite impressive considering they come from independent studios and don't have very high budgets I assume. Some would say indie games are the best part of the industry today but I wouldn't go that far.

05-07-2022, 08:15 PM	#4
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	PopCap was apparently who did Bejeweled and Peggle and Plants vs. Zombies and stuff like that. EA bought them in 2011 but before that I guess they were indie. I used to mess with Bejeweled and Feeding Frenzy a lot back in the day.

05-07-2022, 08:17 PM	#5
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	And yet another company gets absorbed and destroyed by EA. Unbelievable. So those are the guys who created Bejeweled huh?

05-07-2022, 08:25 PM	#6
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Apparently. I got my 360 in 2009 and I remembered seeing the PopCap logo on a lot of the indie games I'd play on it, but I couldn't remember which games they'd actually made and so I had to look it up. I have no idea what they did after EA bought them. To be honest, I only even know the stuff I know of because my 360 came loaded with a bunch of demos, some of which I later got the full game of and others I didn't bother. Bejeweled being one of those that I ended up buying. But if it's an indie game and wasn't pre-loaded on my 360 back in 2009, I probably haven't played it.

05-07-2022, 08:28 PM	#7
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	I didn't start giving indie games a shot until I got on Steam. The 3DS also had some cool ones such as Shovel Knight. The more games the better. Hard for there to be a 3d indie game that's a masterpiece yet. But 2d ones such as Shovel Knight certainly give the best Mega Man and Castlevania games a run for their money.

05-07-2022, 09:56 PM	#8
Mad Dog McMutt Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 707	I thought Hollow Knight was awful even though I love metroidvanias. I am apparently the only person with that opinion. Shovel Knight was good, but very short. I thought Cuphead was a lot of fun as well as a good but fair challenge. Super Meat Boy was fun, but a little too hard for my liking. I think those are all the ones I played.

05-08-2022, 03:27 AM	#12
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	I am glad that indie exist, as they provide necessary contrast with AAA titles and breath of diversity and creativity to the stale VG scene. They suffer from similar problem - overabundance of similar concepts, like metroidlikes and walking simulators. Some of them are undercooked or stuck in development for years only to eventually be released in an unfinished state. But all in all, as always, if the game is good it is hailed. If not - it burns.

05-09-2022, 01:01 AM	#17
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	I dislike metroid-like games, because, I prefer straightforward platformers. Metroid-likes are pretty boring to me, thanks to backtracking and mediocre design of the levels (not structurally, but stylistically). In platformers, levels can tell story through the design, in metroid-likes they are just "locations, which look distinct from others". And I hate backtracking in all of its shapes and forms. Its just boring element, which created just to eat your time in a game in a cheap way.

05-09-2022, 01:22 PM	#18
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	So I've just read that Stardew Valley has sold over 20 million copies. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...million-copies 13 million alone on PC. I personally own it on Switch. It's a very good game for the Switch, imo. Is this the highest selling indie game to date?