Artists you love despite having ideologically nothing in common with them?

[Prowler]

Rage Against the Machine is a huge example of this. I don't share their political ideology at all but I'll be damn if soke of their songs aren't absolute bangers. I love Killing in the Name Of and Wake Up, even if I don't necessarily agree with their message.

Some black metal bands and musicians are obviously neo nazis or far right, but they generally keep that stuff out of their music except if they are NSBM bands. Those I don't listen to. Varg Vikernes is an idiot and a complete nutjob but some of Burzum's stuff is good, and his ideology doesn't spread into his music since it's mostly instrumental anyway.

What about you?

[Coola Yagami]

I mean honestly, I don't know or care to know of any artist's personal ideology unless they can't shut up about it and you have no choice but to know, like Kanye's current outburst.

I just listen to the music and unless the song doesn't outright say horrible things like 'kill all them 'insert group here'' or whatever, I don't care.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I mean honestly, I don't know or care to know of any artist's personal ideology unless they can't shut up about it and you have no choice but to know, like Kanye's current outburst.

I just listen to the music and unless the song doesn't outright say horrible things like 'kill all them 'insert group here'' or whatever, I don't care.

Well, in RATM's case their ideology is all over their music lmao.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I like Elton John’s music. One of my favorite songs of his is “Measure Of A Man”, which was written for Rocky V. I grew up listening to his music, and since my Mom and I loved The Lion King, we also loved his singles “Circle Of Life” and “Can You Feel The Love Tonight”, which we would listen to during long road trips.

But I don’t like Elton John as a person due to the things he says about Christianity. He once said that he would ban religion if he could and that Jesus was gay. Um, no, Jesus was not gay (and he was neither white nor black), and only a fascist would ban religion. I get that Elton is gay and that people have in fact used religion as an excuse to harass and bully gay people, but some of the stuff he says is pretty radical, too radical for my comfort.

[Sumac]

I'd ban all religions as well, since they are constant source of strife and death, while being outdated fairy tales. Guess, that makes me a Fascist, lol (even though Fascists are actually quite religious, which is why before throwing a label you should learn what the **** does it means).

As for the topic in question - I prefer not to know about political allegiance of artists for exactly this reason. There are some examples with Western musicians, who I respect, but their political opinions are retarded, and in this case I prefer to separate artist from their creation (not to mention, people can change over time and it is possible there had different views 20-30 years ago, as I am, for example).

This question, however, is very relevant to me here and now: since the start of the shitshow here, a lot of artists who I respected and whose works I adored, outed themselves as rotten scumbags, supporting people who are should not be supported by any sane person. Which puts me into a weird territory, since they are not espousing opinions, which just weird or stupid, but they directly contribute to the death and destruction of real people.

It is no longer about slapfights in Internet between zealots - it is about who puts a real value on human life, which is a whole different thing and calls for a very different type of judgement.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I'd ban all religions as well, since they are constant source of strife and death, while being outdated fairy tales. Guess, that makes me a Fascist, lol (even though Fascists are actually quite religious, which is why before throwing a label you should learn what the **** does it means).

…geez, Sumac. You feeling ok, bud?

[Vegita-San]

religion is whatever you want it to be. that's why I'd ban it since it does nothing but cause argument and trouble. unless one can be proven correct without a shadow of a doubt.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Alcohol causes heartbreak, violence, and death. Should we completely ban that too? We’ve done it before.

At least one of you guys here drink. Would you be willing to give that up for the greater good? Or would you object because you love to drink and/or drink responsibly?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

He once said that he would ban religion if he could.

I don't think it should be taken too seriously. People say that all the time when they see all the wars caused by relgiion. But then, we would also have to ban politics and economy since that also causes trouble...

[Prowler]

This reminds me. Many years ago, my uncle told me he was a big fan of Bruce Springsteen's music but couldn't stand the fact he was very left wing.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

…geez, Sumac. You feeling ok, bud?

For someone in my situation - perfectly fine for now. Thank you, zealot.

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Alcohol causes heartbreak, violence, and death. Should we completely ban that too? We’ve done it before.

Alcohol is not an institution which exists specifically to brainwash people into their cult. Your comparison is stupid and doesn't make sense in any ****ing contest. At all.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But then, we would also have to ban politics and economy since that also causes trouble...

Politics and economy are necessary for humanity survival.
Religions are not. Also, politics and economy based on facts, not fairy tales.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Sumac

For someone in my situation - perfectly fine for now. Thank you, zealot.

Well, good. I’m glad to hear that my comrade is feeling fine.

Originally Posted by Sumac

Alcohol is not an institution which exists specifically to brainwash people into their cult.

No, but it does mess up the brain. You can’t deny that. People also use alcohol to seduce others or make them not think straight so that they could sign a contract or something like that.

[IMJ]

RATM is a great example of this, actually.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

No, but it does mess up the brain. You can’t deny that. People also use alcohol to seduce others or make them not think straight so that they could sign a contract or something like that.

Are you seriously comparing fairy tales and a physical substance...

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Are you seriously comparing fairy tales and a physical substance...

The idea of completely and totally banning religion is a fairy tale in itself. You can’t expect religious people to suddenly give up their faith because people in power say they have to. They’ll face incarceration or even take a bullet to the head before they’ll renounce their beliefs, myself included. They’ll even start underground churches. You may call me a “zealot” for that but whatever. I’m not hurting anyone with my religion, so why should I give it up? And you really want to punish the peaceful Buddhists and Hindus for not giving up their religion? Or even the Jewish community?

And my point with the alcohol comparison was that if you’re bent on making the world a better place, then you have to get rid of all the things that cause violence and even death, including alcohol. If you don’t, then you’re just a hypocrite, and authoritarians usually are.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

The idea of completely and totally banning religion is a fairy tale in itself. You can’t expect religious people to suddenly give up their faith because people in power say they have to. They’ll face incarceration or even take a bullet to the head before they’ll renounce their beliefs, myself included. They’ll even start underground churches. You may call me a “zealot” for that but whatever. I’m not hurting anyone with my religion, so why should I give it up? And you really want to punish the peaceful Buddhists and Hindus for not giving up their religion? Or even the Jewish community?

Obviously it impossible to outlaw faith. People need to believe in higher purpose, to give their worthless lives meaning or, because, they are weak of will and spirit and they need some "moral" support, even from an invisible non-existent entities.

It has been proven that in absence of "legacy faith", people turn anything into quasi-religious cult. Best examples of it is a USSR with its Communism, which was organized very much like a any run of the mill sect or religion

What can be and should be done - is outlawing religion as an organized institution. Worship all you want in the confines of your homes, but its should be separated from state, not served by tax money, being religious should not be not encouraged on the state level and any religious propaganda should be outlawed.

Also, argument "I am not hurting anyone" is a fallacy. You don't need "everyone" in the religion hurt someone. Few people more than enough to cause mass death and destruction.

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

And my point with the alcohol comparison was that if you’re bent on making the world a better place, then you have to get rid of all the things that cause violence and even death, including alcohol. If you don’t, then you’re just a hypocrite, and authoritarians usually are.

I don't aim to make world a better place. Just more peaceful.
Religions throughout the history brought mostly only pointless war and destruction. There were some good things about them, but humanity had outgrown them. It is time to abandon them and move on, so no more people die and suffer for the sake of imaginary friends of losers.

[Leo656]

I was gonna say, "I'm not hurting anyone with my faith" is generally a disingenuous statement. If nothing else, people "of faith" commonly do nothing while their brethren attack, harass, and try to make life a lot harder for other people, and shrug it off by saying, "Well, it's my/their beliefs/opinions!" That's harmful in its own way.

Like, for example, there's a ton of rampant homophobia going on, right now, most of it from the Religious Right. And I see online every day, "So what, *I* can't have an opinion?" Uhhhh, not if your "opinion" is "Gay people are disgusting and I shouldn't have to acknowledge that they exist", no, you can't have that opinion AND also pretend to be a good person. Hiding behind a book of fairy tales to justify that same bigotry makes it SO much worse, because now the person is too much of a coward to even be honest about why they hate gay people: "I just plain do, because I'm a hateful, intolerant person." But no, they pass the buck to God. "GOD says it's an abomination! Can't help it, my hands are tied!" And then they mistreat their own friends and family and pretend they don't; "Well I TOLD my brother/sister/niece/nephew that I love THEM, I just hate The Sin!" Yeah, nah man, that isn't how it works, you're a piece of sh*t and they're right to not want to come to your Christmas party, because you're a bigot and they see through your bullsh*t. Either they say/do those kinda things, OR they don't speak up when other people do it. Either way, it's harmful.

It's pretty much impossible to be a "harmless" person of faith, because ALL religions push intolerance, its ingrained. You're either a sh*t person through bigoted actions which are implicitly condoned by the faith, OR you're a sh*t person by proxy via inaction.

I'm pretty upfront with everybody: Even if I like you as a person, if you're religious (and especially outspokenly so) I absolutely have less respect for you as a human being, because even just saying "I'm a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Misc." reveals SO MUCH about a person all by itself, and generally not good things. At the very least, it means that they're in the habit of believing things they're told without seeing it for themselves, and I just can't abide that from anyone. Some people choose to associate with me anyway, for whatever reason. It's not like I go out of my way to attack them for their beliefs, it's not quite like that, but I do call Obvious Bullsh*t when I see and hear it and so far nobody has ever offered me anything besides "Mysterious Ways" and "You Just Gotta Believe". And they'll tell me they don't hate gay people or non-whites, then turn around and vote for people who make life a lot harder for gay people and non-whites, and just shrug when I point out the nonsense of that. "Well, I am obligated to support others who share my own values." Racism and homophobia are your values? Then your values suck, pal.

I guess it's "fine". I think they're certifiably insane because they take life advice from imaginary friends, and they're convinced I'm going to Hell because I don't. At the least, I make sure there's no pretense or misinformation: "I can respect you as a person; I absolutely do not respect your beliefs." I must be pretty charming, since a lot of people keep me around anyways. Not sure why.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Sumac

What can be and should be done - is outlawing religion as an organized institution. Worship all you want in the confines of your homes, but its should be separated from state, not served by tax money, being religious should not be not encouraged on the state level and any religious propaganda should be outlawed.

State secularism and atheistic propaganda should be outlawed. I think that is a real possibility going forward.

There is much to be excited about in future developments. Stay tuned.

[Leo656]

I can't wait to hear what the voices in your head are telling you THIS time.

I really hope the last thing these people hear right before they die is a big "WAMP WAAAAMP!" sound as they realize there's no God and they wasted their entire lives chasing make-believe ghosts and fairies. And you can't go back and re-do it, that's what makes it even worse. We all get One Shot and some people waste it all being miserable because someone told them 5000 years ago that it's all they deserved, and put it in a book. Terrible.

I know it's mean, but whenever I scroll comments sections and see all the truly hateful and abhorrent things these "Godly" people say to everyone who disagrees with them, the words "I wish these people would all die immediately" fall from my lips loud and often. But I can't help it, I just really can't stand racists, bigots, and homophobes, and I especially hate it when they hide behind their books of fairy tales to justify their bullsh*t. If the whole lot were gathered up and set ablaze, you may just hear me laughing over the screams. I know that's brutal, but unlike certain hypocrites who espouse hate while preaching "godliness", I never actually claimed to be a good person, just a practical one.

I'm sure a handful of the "actually good ones" would have to go too, but "You can't make an omelette, etc. etc. etc."

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Sumac

What can be and should be done - is outlawing religion as an organized institution. Worship all you want in the confines of your homes, but its should be separated from state, not served by tax money, being religious should not be not encouraged on the state level and any religious propaganda should be outlawed.

Also, argument "I am not hurting anyone" is a fallacy. You don't need "everyone" in the religion hurt someone. Few people more than enough to cause mass death and destruction.

I don't aim to make world a better place. Just more peaceful.

“I don’t aim to make the world a better place. Just more peaceful.”

You still want to dictate how other people should live their lives or else the State will punish them. Worship only inside your homes and nowhere else because Big Brother is watching. And you would still allow things like alcohol to continue to ruin people’s lives and relationships just because it’s a physical substance and not an “imaginary” thing. What if they started worshipping the moon, like how some societies have in the past? That’s a physical thing, and they can’t exactly stay inside their homes if they want to worship something hanging in the sky, can they? They may even want to worship some famous tree in a national park. Would I think that they were nuts? Yes. But I wouldn’t force them not to worship it.

And Leo, I get that you don’t like Christians and all (or just religious people in general), and I understand why you don’t, but…geez. You really hate them that much? I mean, atheists give me crap but I don’t wish them any ill will or harm. They believe what they believe, and I believe what I believe. Just don’t burn me at the stake for my beliefs. But you were probably slightly drunk again when you posted that, lol.

And I know you’re against bigotry and racism, and I strongly oppose those things too, which is why I condemn white supremacists who burn down black churches. The question is, since you feel so strongly about religion, would you condemn that too? Or would you agree with them because you think churches do more harm than good anyway?

You could argue that TV shows can be just as poisonous to the mind. Let’s take Steven Universe for example, a show that I really dislike. The SU fandom is so toxic that they almost drove a girl to suicide just because she drew Rose Quartz skinny and they bullied her for it, and that’s only one example of their toxicity. Should we make sure that the show can never made available to the public again because of a few toxic people who took it too far? I personally don’t like that show or the fandom, but I wouldn’t ban it because that would make me an authoritarian.