01-22-2023, 01:42 PM | #41 |
Stone Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 570
|
The main problem I have with the arguments against the '87 show is that all the flaws pointed out are not flaws that are specific to that show. Pointing out voice recording errors, animation errors, recycled plots, etc. is redundant because EVERY show from that era was like that. I mean, sure, there were a few exceptions, but as a general rule? This is just what cartoons were like during this time. So it seems unfair to hold those errors against TMNT specifically since none of those errors are specific to TMNT, in the same way that it would be unfair for a to call a movie from the silent era bad for not having sound, or a movie from before color filming was invented bad for not being in color.
|
01-22-2023, 01:55 PM | #42 | |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,021
|
Quote:
1. FW TMNT has already received several editions of the complete collection on DVD. People keep buying them. 2k3 has never been released in its entirety. Nickelodeon tried to release some 2k3 DVDs, but they obviously didn't make a profit, so they stopped releasing. 2. Figures from NEKA, Super7 and other companies based on FW are popular and sell very well. 3. Why did you decide that Saturday Morning Adventures wasn't popular? A paperback collection was announced and received the number 1 in the title. This hints that IDW plans to continue the series. |
|
01-22-2023, 04:18 PM | #43 | ||
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,461
|
Quote:
Quote:
"We need to cut out quality control and pump out 65 episodes as quickly as possible to get that syndication deal" is not an excuse. It's not like it was it literally impossible to slow down production and oversee the quality to prevent these types of problem. Those types of shows shouldn't be excused like there were technical limitations, if you only have the budget and time to make 13 episodes per year, don't try to make over 45. It is not an unfair standard, saying that it is just comes across as an empty attempt to deflect criticism. |
||
01-22-2023, 04:30 PM | #44 | |||||||||||||
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,461
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
More crucially though, let's remember here that most shows had these types of problems (which again, does not mean these problems were excusable). Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No, you haven't. You've just applied an appeal popularity fallacy and coupled it with your own bias. Quote:
And since I admitted that I didn't feel like like commenting on the acting or music, I might as well make it clear that I did not claim to have an objective argument against them in the first place, I thought that spoke for itself. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||||||
01-22-2023, 05:08 PM | #45 | |
Stone Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 570
|
Quote:
It's pointless to say what COULD have been done because it WASN'T done, not only in practice but in terms of where the industry was at the time. To use another analogy, it's why I have problems with the way people look at the past in general. It's unfair to compare it to the standards of today, because they simply weren't the standards in the past. You have to judge things within their own context. The '87 cartoon's context is the late 80s and 90s, where animation on television wasn't taken seriously by almost everyone, and cartoons as a rule were rushed, shoddily put together productions for the purpose of selling toys. It's not like today, where even the worst cartoons are still technically well put together in general. We judge a bad cartoon differently today. The best cartoon in the 80s would never stand up against even some of the mediocre cartoons today. We judge cartoons more critically today because they CAN be better much more easily. The same can't be said of most of the cartoons from the 80s and 90s, and that includes TMNT. |
|
01-22-2023, 05:43 PM | #46 | |
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,461
|
Quote:
And... Well, if we admit that the shows from the 80's aren't very good because the production didn't take itself seriously enough to mitigate the problems they were facing and that mediocre cartoons made today are of higher quality, simply the production team does have better quality control and don't attempt to pump out too many episodes for a weak reason... Then isn't that an admission those 80's cartoons really should be dismissed beyond being little more than a time capsule? |
|
01-22-2023, 06:34 PM | #47 | |
Stone Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 570
|
Quote:
Old cartoons from this era are, in my mind, one of the quintessential examples of what people are talking about when they say "take it for what it is." If you go in expecting the works of Shakespearem, you'll be disappointed. If you read any book written in the 50s, you might be offput by the depictions of certain things that might be less palatable today. But if you go into any of those things, including 80s cartoons, knowing that that's what things were like when they came out, and go in knowing what you're going to get, then you can still have a good time and still find legitimate entertainment value from it. I don't think it's fair to say everyone lowered their standards back in the day. Rather, I think their standards simply hadn't been raised yet. If someone made a cartoon from the 80s like they do in the 80s today, it would be rightly lambasted, because the industry is better than that now. That's also part of the reason why it's so hard to replicate the feeling whenever a modern cartoon does a throwback episode. It's always too clean. The technology has gotten good enough that you just can't emulate the cartoons of the 80s and 90s in the same way anymore. It's always just a little better then what they could do then. I'm not suggesting that TMNT should be considered any better because the standards were lower at the time, only that it shouldn't be considered any worse considering when it came out and what the landscape of cartoons was at the time. Nor do I think that 80s cartoons should be dismissed as a time capsule of that era. Ultimately, every cartoon is eventually going to be a time capsule of the time it came out. It's happened pretty much every decade in animation. Because, as I've said, I think to dismiss it or condemn it in this way would be unfair. When it comes to works in the past, the standards were different, and if you go into it knowing that, and judge it by the standards of the past, while using it as a contrast for how far we've come today, then I think you can come out of it being genuinely entertained. Make no mistake, there ARE bad cartoons from this era, bad even by the standard of the time, just as well as there are some really good ones from this era. But TMNT isn't any worse then anything else at the time. Maybe (definitely) compared to today, but not then. |
|
01-22-2023, 09:12 PM | #48 | |||
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,021
|
Quote:
An example from DVD 2k3 was given to compare their sales. There are now more than 10 figures in each modern series of FW figures. The series continues, which means that they are profitable. Quote:
Quote:
Obviously, the decision to continue the series and put the number one in the collection appeared after the sales of the first issue. |
|||
01-23-2023, 12:19 AM | #49 | |
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,461
|
Quote:
|
|
01-23-2023, 08:03 AM | #50 | |
Overlord
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,012
|
Quote:
__________________
"I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/ |
|
01-24-2023, 07:55 AM | #52 | |
Overlord
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow!
Posts: 14,939
|
Quote:
https://www.comiccrusaders.com/previ...mnt_sma4-pr_7/ April actually gets to use a feather instead of being on the receiving end of it! Looking at you, Don Turtelli...
__________________
Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items! |
|
01-24-2023, 02:28 PM | #54 | |
Stone Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 570
|
Quote:
|
|
01-24-2023, 03:31 PM | #55 | |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
|
Quote:
|
|
01-24-2023, 06:29 PM | #56 | |
Stone Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 570
|
Quote:
|
|
01-26-2023, 06:52 AM | #57 |
Overlord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 20,898
|
Neatoman's obsession with discrediting the one show that kicked his dog down the corner market is so farcical and repetitive you'd think David Wise was constantly recycling it.
|
02-01-2023, 12:27 PM | #58 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
|
Quote:
Quote:
Also, animation in the West was not treated as a media for the serious stories, which is why Anime was revolutionary at the time - a cartoon, which dare to discuss things, which Western animation doesn't touch or only grazes!! Last edited by Sumac; 02-01-2023 at 12:58 PM. |
||
02-01-2023, 02:30 PM | #59 | |||
Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,461
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I'm not even talking about "deep themes" or anything like that when I'm talking about quality standards, I'm literally just talking about plots not looking like Swiss cheese and the animation not having blatantly obvious errors like depict a mysterious fifth turtle in the first episode. I'm sorry but... No. It's not about the show's failure as an adaptation or it's tone (though there is a discussion to be had there), it just isn't up to reasonable quality standards, simple as that. It doesn't matter how many little kids loved it back in the day, what it's role is in the franchise's history or if most cartoons at the time were this shoddy. They could have done better, way better and they knew they could have done better, so it just isn't worth holding up on a pedestal. |
|||
02-01-2023, 10:58 PM | #60 | ||||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
|
Quote:
Like, why people buy SR less on traditionally platformer-friendly platforms, compared to PC, which is not particularly favored by people who like old school games? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Have you asked everyone who likes FW TMNT about it? Quote:
Go figure. Maybe your numbers are off? And I've already explained about Steam. Quote:
Not that we haven't figured it out already. Quote:
If show was not profitable they would had immediately reduced budget and ultimately closed it, which had happened few years down the line. But beginning of the 90s so even MORE episodes being produced, not to mention movies. Quote:
Quote:
Not gonna happen, dude. Quote:
It was stupid weeks ago - it is stupid now. Do better. Quote:
Chill out and let it go. Quote:
You give impressions of someone who is really sad and obsessed that others are happy. Quote:
You won't convince anyone, because, all you have hatred. Irrational hatred. Quote:
You are a boring crusty panted guy, who hates decent show from the past for no reason. Also, yes, if all you have is boring nonsense "I don't like" it naturally would be dismissed. |
||||||||||||||
|
|