So, what's the REAL story?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Anarchistguy

No. It works with everybody. I've never had any problems with the police as a black man because I've never mouthed off or acted arrogant at them.

My man! Right there - a man who sees the forest for the trees.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I don't know the further details as to the stop itself or what this guy was doing in the car. But I am going to say this - the cops - of any color - do not simply drag people out of a car if they do nothing.

You don't do anything but what the cops say.
You don't run away from the cops.
You don't jive turkey or hood rat at the cops.

If you don't do those things, then it's likely they won't even remotely get physical with you. What happens in these circumstances is that the cops are out there always fearing for their lives. And when someone gets stopped and they compound the problem -

1. People get mouthy with, or hoodrat at, or victim-play at the cops. They get pulled out of the car.
2. Then they bug up when getting pulled out even though they caused it, so they fight the cops. Control the situation as is procedure. They get put on the ground and sprayed.
3. Then they bug up at their "victimization" even though they caused it, so they run from the cops. "Stop or we'll shoot" as is procedure. They get put in the ground.

Don't you people understand this?

I don't agree with this at all. I have had a childhood friend who was raped by a cop when she was 13, so if a cop is trying to order me to do something when I know I did nothing wrong, then I will question him. Last I look, they work for me, not the other way around. And there are a lot of dirty and corrupt cops out there.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I don't agree with this at all. I have had a childhood friend who was raped by a cop when she was 13, so if a cop is trying to order me to do something when I know I did nothing wrong, then I will question him. Last I look, they work for me, not the other way around. And there are a lot of dirty and corrupt cops out there.

And I disagree with your point completely, but it's because you missed the mark completely in your reply to what I've said. For example, where did I say that you should never question the cops? Where was it established that a wrongdoing wasn't committed? Where did I say that "if you know you've done nothing wrong then you never question the cops about the interaction?"

Basically, please point out what you are addressing in my post and then make a point that actually matches up to my post. This was idiotic. It'd be like you posting that hot dogs are the best food ever and my reply to it is that I don't agree with that at all because when I was younger I choked on a meat product and now I'm verrrrryyy careful whenever I interact with a meat product.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I used to be in the “Back The Blue” club myself, then the lockdowns began. Cops would arrest those who didn’t want to wear a mask and crack down on businesses that didn’t follow every single rule, but at the same time they would let BLM gather in multitudes and burn down those same businesses. It was during the lockdowns when I realized that my “heroes” weren’t who I thought they were. Some are in fact good and will defy the fascists in power, but sadly not enough of them do.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

I used to be in the “Back The Blue” club myself

I think there is a happy medium. I definitely have been overrun in my life by an overzealous cop - usually when I was younger on a traffic stop or something like that.

But I think, for my hand in it, is that I'm not digging in on arbitrarily simply backing the police. But I am digging in on that there is a pattern to these events and that the people involved tend to bring their hoodrat-assertions and cultural-garbage into police interactions and then wonder why their problem gets worse.

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

then the lockdowns began. Cops would arrest those who didn’t want to wear a mask

I don't remember one single example of this. I'd guess that if anyone was arrested it's because they took a "can you wear a mask" interaction and went all Power Rangers generation on the cops. Once again as if these people are worldly. The same fools stormed the Capital Building noting that "it's our building".

There are plenty of bad cops out there. But there are a LOT of cops.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I don't remember one single example of this. I'd guess that if anyone was arrested it's because they took a "can you wear a mask" interaction and went all Power Rangers generation on the cops.

And these are just a few examples.

Look, my brother is a cop, so I know that there are good cops and that not all cops are bad. But you have to remember, they work for the State, and whatever the State tells them to do, they are expected to follow those orders. “I’m just doing my job” is a scary thing to hear, especially if it’s coming from someone in law enforcement.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

I used to be in the “Back The Blue” club myself, then the lockdowns began. Cops would arrest those who didn’t want to wear a mask and crack down on businesses that didn’t follow every single rule, but at the same time they would let BLM gather in multitudes and burn down those same businesses. It was during the lockdowns when I realized that my “heroes” weren’t who I thought they were. Some are in fact good and will defy the fascists in power, but sadly not enough of them do.

Can't afford to be idealistic when you have mouths to feed back home, and getting suspended or even booted from the force for disobeying orders won't do them any favors. That's Real World 101.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Can't afford to be idealistic when you have mouths to feed back home, and getting suspended or even booted from the force for disobeying orders won't do them any favors. That's Real World 101.

So should we excuse the you-know-who’s for simply following the orders of the big bad dictator with the funny mustache? Or the militsiya for following the orders of the Soviet Union? They had a choice to disobey their orders but chose to stay in line and millions died as a result. “I’m just doing my job” is not an excuse, never has been, never will be.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

So should we excuse the you-know-who’s for simply following the orders of the big bad dictator with the funny mustache? Or the militsiya for following the orders of the Soviet Union? They had a choice to disobey their orders but chose to stay in line and millions died as a result. “I’m just doing my job” is not an excuse, never has been, never will be.

Oh, no, I didn't say excuse them. Just to consider their point of view and their personal stakes. We have to understand them if we expect to make them see reason.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

And these are just a few examples.

No, they aren't. And you aren't going to like this, I can see it already because it's going to challenge your thought processes on your position. Those people were not arrested for "not wearing a mask" - not one of them. You have to remember that basically any space that you go into other than your home, does not belong to you. Even public spaces that you contribute to with taxes do not belong to you.

And so whether you agree with the masking laws or not, it isn't your place, or the place of any of those people in your examples, to force your way into a space and then refuse to leave when the person in charge of that space says you have to go. It'd be like saying that a 7-11 has a sign that says "No Shoes No Service" and they call the cops on a customer without shoes on who is giving them a hard time about their policy. That customer will be removed, but the media and the peasants will state overtly "Man arrested for NOT WEARING SHOES in 7-11!"

It's a lie and a twisting of a very important intellectual truth. And that intellectual truth is that by not leaving someone else's property when they tell you to, you are now harassing them and trespassing there. Those people were not arrested for "not wearing masks" despite what the media headlines post to manipulate a sheep-constituency of society in their viewing numbers.

So I'm sorry but your examples are literally and categorically wrong whether anyone in this community has the breadth of thought to recognize that or otherwise.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by IMJ

No, they aren't. And you aren't going to like this, I can see it already because it's going to challenge your thought processes on your position. Those people were not arrested for "not wearing a mask" - not one of them. You have to remember that basically any space that you go into other than your home, does not belong to you. Even public spaces that you contribute to with taxes do not belong to you.

And so whether you agree with the masking laws or not, it isn't your place, or the place of any of those people in your examples, to force your way into a space and then refuse to leave when the person in charge of that space says you have to go. It'd be like saying that a 7-11 has a sign that says "No Shoes No Service" and they call the cops on a customer without shoes on who is giving them a hard time about their policy. That customer will be removed, but the media and the peasants will state overtly "Man arrested for NOT WEARING SHOES in 7-11!"

It's a lie and a twisting of a very important intellectual truth. And that intellectual truth is that by not leaving someone else's property when they tell you to, you are now harassing them and trespassing there. Those people were not arrested for "not wearing masks" despite what the media headlines post to manipulate a sheep-constituency of society in their viewing numbers.

So I'm sorry but your examples are literally and categorically wrong whether anyone in this community has the breadth of thought to recognize that or otherwise.

But the whole issue was the mask though right? Like if the owner didn't care and just leave the people alone and not get the cops involved, there wouldn't be an issue.

But this was peak 2020/2021 and everyone was scared so it's kinda understandable though excessive.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

But the whole issue was the mask though right? Like if the owner didn't care and just leave the people alone and not get the cops involved, there wouldn't be an issue.

But this was peak 2020/2021 and everyone was scared so it's kinda understandable though excessive.

People were just eating the fear and panic they were fed by MSM to move jabs, can't blame 'em.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

People were just eating the fear and panic they were fed by MSM to move jabs, can't blame 'em.

Exactly. People seem to forget they had a death counter that was rising everyday plastered all over TV. If we had one of those for the regular flu, we'd all be flipping out too.

The biggest irony is I remember when there were reports of China spreading 'fear porn' over this all over their news outlets when the virus first escaped Wuhan. Then it comes over to states and they American news outlets are doing the exact same thing.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The biggest irony is I remember when there were reports of China spreading 'fear porn' over this all over their news outlets when the virus first escaped Wuhan. Then it comes over to states and they American news outlets are doing the exact same thing.

Definitely, I still remember the (more than likely staged) videos of Chinese people collapsing randomly in the streets and in stores, which we now know full well is not a symptom of Covid. How delightfully ironic that their psy ops and their Fauci-sponsored research has now turned around and bit their collective ass far harder than it ever did the rest of the world... Gonna feel that in the next half of the century!

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

But the whole issue was the mask though right? Like if the owner didn't care and just leave the people alone and not get the cops involved, there wouldn't be an issue.

Yes. Exactly. But this statement changes nothing that these people were not arrested because they didn't wear masks. They were arrested because they remained in a space in defiance of the space's owner. For example, that High Schooler in the first video could've done the exact same "stunning and brave anti-masking protest" in front of the school on the public sidewalk in front of the school property and the school itself could not have had her removed. This happens all the time. These people were not "arrested for not wearing masks". They were arrested because they acted like defiant kings and queens in spaces that did not belong to them.

Look man - regular people cluster their thoughts together about everything. They cluster their thoughts into the lowest-common-denominator and now life is easy. "Order to wear masks + girl does not wear mask + arrest = Girl arrested for not wearing mask". But people who specialize in this stuff, or people who know how to properly itemize their thoughts about reality in real-time will not only inherently know the situational nuance, but also understand it.

"Kid shouldn't have been killed by the police" = True
"Police had him in custody and it should have been over" = true
But:
"Kid shouldn't have been killed by the police"+ "Police had him in custody and it should have been over = Kid was innocent and did not cause this problem". ERRRRT! NOT true!

We self-dictate most of our situations. These people would have you believe that they were sitting around innocently eating dinner with their family after a hard day's work and the cops just walked into their lives for no reason and beat some black kid. ERRRRT! Bull$#!(!

If girl protested for "No masks!" like a civilian then she wouldn't have been arrested. But instead she protested while infringing in a public space (whether right or wrong) like she was some smiling superhero. "Look at me! Stunning and brave!" And she got arrested. For trespassing. Not for "refusing to wear a mask".

There are three kinds of people in these examples -

1. @$$holes
2. People who understand nuance, situational response and how to behave
3. People who just know better and don't focus on this $#!( because they are out living solid existences, making money and developing their lives.

See, people number 3 know better than all of us and are in the proper circles. And when they are asked about these topics, they know everything I'm saying is true, but they'll just patronize you and simply say "oh yeah it's terrible" and then quietly roll their eyes at people who say "people were arrested for not wearing masks".

But me? I'm here in this place. For reasons. So I discuss it. Clearly I'm not person #3.

[ChosenOne]

"Kid would still be alive if he hadn't run and tried to fight back." = True.

The only kind that matters and needs to be seriously hammered into some people's heads so sh*t like this can finally stop.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Y’all have way too much faith in the system.

The system sure didn’t save those kids during the Uvalde shooting. The cops in that particular situation stood by and did nothing while the students were being murdered inside the school. Some parents tried to rush in and save their kids (one mother did manage to get in and save her two kids), and what did the cops do? Arrest them on the spot. Now ask yourself this, who was in the wrong here, the parents or the cops?

https://www.insider.com/uvalde-mom-w...ing-her-2022-6

Again I will stress, I support my local police. I’m not for that “defund the police” and “acab” bs at all. We need law and order and we need decent and reliable officers. BUT cops are not superheroes who will always do the right thing even if it means disobeying the ones in power. As controversial as this may sound, Frank Miller was right to portray Superman as a tool for the government. Even though he’s a “good guy” with godlike powers, he does everything the President orders him to, even arrest and/or kill his friend Batman. We like to paint our cops and soldiers as flawless heroes who will always defend the weak and innocent, but again, they are merely following their superiors’ orders. Regardless of how they may feel about those orders, they must follow them. One of the reasons the Soviet Union fell was because the army refused to fire upon their fellow citizens during the 1991 Coup. Had they followed their orders, it probably would’ve ended differently.

The mask mandate was unconstitutional, and it just didn’t make any sense. Matt Strickland, the owner of a restaurant in Virginia, brought this up to the cops who tried to shut his business down because he refused to follow all of the mandates, and they told him, “It doesn’t have to make sense. The governor ordered it so you have to do it.” And Matt is a veteran who has fought dictatorship his entire life so he wasn’t going to have it. It was a long painful process, but he won in the end and got both his health department license and liquor license back.

My point? The system is not perfect and complying won’t make things better especially if they are the ones in the wrong.

[ChosenOne]

The system and the police aren't necessarily the same thing. Running from the police or assaulting officers sure as f*ck won't make things better either. I'll side with the cops over the perps and suspects any day of the week.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

"Kid would still be alive if he hadn't run and tried to fight back." = True.

The only kind that matters and needs to be seriously hammered into some people's heads so sh*t like this can finally stop.

That's exactly been my point. What happened with this kid was wrong and he should be alive. But had this kid's lifestyle not led to his mentality which in-turn led to his actions out in society, then....

-he wouldn't have told the cops he was complying when he wasn't
-he wouldn't have ran off
-he wouldn't have done anything else that created his own situation for those cops to f up in. He'd be alive if it weren't for his own actions.

Those cops were @$$holes through and through but that kid informed his police interaction 100%. With. His. Conduct.

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Y’all have way too much faith in the system.

I mean.... you're just moving the goalpost now. That's intellectual dishonesty given the conversation.
Those cops were @$$holes through and through but that kid informed his police interaction 100%. With. His. Conduct.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I mean.... you're just moving the goalpost now. That's intellectual dishonesty given the conversation.

I’m just saying, not all cops are bad and a lot of them are in fact good. But I won’t lower my guard and trust them to be honest and noble all the time because 1.) they are people just like us so they, too, can be a**holes and 2.) they are servants of the system and unless they value their morals over the “law”, they will do even the unthinkable if they are ordered to. That’s why I defend the 2nd Amendment and why I believe in smaller government.

Those cops were all black and they still beat up that kid, so racism obviously wasn’t the issue here. They were just a**holes, like you said. And the cops who arrested people for not covering their faces and shut down small businesses for not following all the mandates were a**holes too. I got a serious reality check during 2020, and so did a lot of people. Cops are not that dependable nor are they completely trustworthy.