Alleged Chinese Spy Balloon Hovering Over Montana

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Thing that bugs me is that China sits there now kind of mad that we shot it down, but where the hell were they in keeping in touch with us over it and actively trying to work with us to deal with it and get it returned to them if it really was just an innocent mistake?

They’re just mad because we’ve demonstrated that we’re not total pushovers.

[Andrew NDB]

Dumb question: is there even wind at 80,000 feet?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Thing that bugs me is that China sits there now kind of mad that we shot it down, but where the hell were they in keeping in touch with us over it and actively trying to work with us to deal with it and get it returned to them if it really was just an innocent mistake?

Straight outta the Russian playbook: "How DARE they fight back against our blatant violation of their sovereignty and international law?!"...

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Dumb question: is there even wind at 80,000 feet?

Got my curiosity so I went hunting... Hard to find something simply saying yes or no for that exact level, but this old article (coincidentally about balloons) suggests yes, but that the winds are actually a lot more variable and unpredictable?

https://www.technologyreview.com/201...-to-come-down/

The idea of a balloon that floats high up above Earth indefinitely is a tantalizing one. [rest of paragraph edited out]

There’s a major snag, though: current balloons shift with the wind and can only stay in one area for a few days at a time. At the height of the stratosphere, some 60,000 feet (18,300 meters) up, winds blow in different directions at different altitudes. In theory it should be possible to find a wind blowing in any desired direction simply by changing altitude. But while machine learning and better data are improving navigation, the progress is gradual.

“By flying higher we hope to take advantage of a larger range of winds,” says ALTA project manager Alex Walan. ALTA will operate even higher than Loon at 75,000 to 90,000 feet (22,900 to 27,400 meters or 14 to 17 miles), where the winds are less predictable. That shouldn’t be a problem if the balloon can see exactly where the favorable winds are.

Edit:
Just for the heck of it I also looked for forecasted weather patterns of the last few days and found a gif (going up through I think the 12th) and grabbed these couple frames from the last two days. It looks like it lines up with exactly the path that balloon took. Pushed south by the system that brought that cold snap and out off the Carolinas.

Spoiler:

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Apparently people on Twitter are saying Trump allowed China to fly their weather balloons three time during his presidency and hid it from the media. Kinda like a 'take that people that think Trump woulda shot them down'. They're also singing and dancing that Trump did nothing while Biden did (eventually) shoot the balloon down.

It's true that several spy balloons flew over the US while Trump was president and that Trump chose to ignore this; It's been confirmed by the Pentagon they'd never made this public before.

I think people who believed that Trump was not a deterrent to this kind of thing are perfectly entitled to point out they were right. However a bigger point of discussion should be why the Trump government did nothing. One news source is alleging he saw this as "no big deal". Interesting that some right leaning pundits (that had previously been demanding Biden shoot it down) are now saying they posed no security risk but how they know that unless they'd examined one as the military now plan to do with remains of this one...and if there was no possibility they could learn anything important why would China continue to send them?

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Got my curiosity so I went hunting... Hard to find something simply saying yes or no for that exact level, but this old article (coincidentally about balloons) suggests yes, but that the winds are actually a lot more variable and unpredictable?



Edit:
Just for the heck of it I also looked for forecasted weather patterns of the last few days and found a gif (going up through I think the 12th) and grabbed these couple frames from the last two days. It looks like it lines up with exactly the path that balloon took. Pushed south by the system that brought that cold snap and out off the Carolinas.

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/Dn3CYaQ.jpg

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Galactus

It's true that several spy balloons flew over the US while Trump was president and that Trump chose to ignore this; It's been confirmed by the Pentagon they'd never made this public before.

Good to know some people still believe in Santa and other children's fairytales, I was afraid that magic had been lost to the world.

[frank_one]

So, is the ballon still up in the air or has it been taken down? All they need to do is open it up and see what devices are inside.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by frank_one

So, is the ballon still up in the air or has it been taken down? All they need to do is open it up and see what devices are inside.

The first one was shot down over the Atlantic.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Good to know some people still believe in Santa and other children's fairytales, I was afraid that magic had been lost to the world.

So you're suggesting the Pentagon are lying to help Biden's public image and/or to help ruin Trump's? Why do you think they would do that?

Also why do you have such devotion to the idea of Trump as some unique and strong politician that no country would dare try and send over a spy balloon while he was president or that he isn't so dumb as to let it happen?

[TurtleManiac]

Originally Posted by Galactus

So you're suggesting the Pentagon are lying to help Biden's public image and/or to help ruin Trump's? Why do you think they would do that?

Also why do you have such devotion to the idea of Trump as some unique and strong politician that no country would dare try and send over a spy balloon while he was president or that he isn't so dumb as to let it happen?

Is there any old articles from when this happened? Why is it just now being revealed? You would think with all the other things they tried to frame Trump with, this would have been huge, the media could of labeled him a CCP spy or something.

Idk, the timing seems a little too convenient. We just saw 3 CCP spy balloons floating around the world under the Biden admin, and the media is so quick to deflect and say “hey look, Trump let this happen too!”. I mean, if any of the other stuff they’re tried to frame Trump for the last several years was actually true, this would be more believable. But they’ve lied so many times, it’s hard to believe anything on TV nowadays.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

The first one was shot down over the Atlantic.

Which is pretty incredible. It was over Montana... then suddenly it's shot over the Atlantic? Meaning, the balloon had to pass over, like, South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Virginia, Delaware to then be shot over the Atlantic. Or am I missing something?

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

Is there any old articles from when this happened? Why is it just now being revealed? You would think with all the other things they tried to frame Trump with, this would have been huge, the media could of labeled him a CCP spy or something.

Idk, the timing seems a little too convenient. We just saw 3 CCP spy balloons floating around the world under the Biden admin, and the media is so quick to deflect and say “hey look, Trump let this happen too!”. I mean, if any of the other stuff they’re tried to frame Trump for the last several years was actually true, this would be more believable. But they’ve lied so many times, it’s hard to believe anything on TV nowadays.

This reminds me of George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” when Napoleon blamed his exiled rival Snowball for the fall of the new windmill, which actually collapsed due to a storm (and Napoleon’s poor planning). But Napoleon told the other farm animals that Snowball was trying to sabotage their project and they believed him of course because, as Boxer would say, “Napoleon is always right.” Oh, and although the windmill was Snowball’s idea, after Napoleon drove him off, he said that the windmill was actually his idea and that Snowball stole it, and Napoleon pretended to oppose it as a “maneuver to get rid of Snowball, who was a dangerous character and a bad influence.”

[MikeandRaph87]

Mao Ning is Squaler!

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Galactus

So you're suggesting the Pentagon are lying to help Biden's public image and/or to help ruin Trump's? Why do you think they would do that?

Also why do you have such devotion to the idea of Trump as some unique and strong politician that no country would dare try and send over a spy balloon while he was president or that he isn't so dumb as to let it happen?

A better question is why you have such devotion to the idea of Trump as some evil and corrupt fascist that you would distort facts and make up false narratives in order to spread your twisted perception of the man. No one's buying what you're selling. It's just you. There are thousands of dead people in Afghanistan and Ukraine because of that very same blind, spiteful hatred you and others like you have helped to propagate. Their blood is on your hands too, not just Putin and the Taliban's. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What was China's 'explanation' for the balloon over South America?

Taco Tuesday?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I mean, it's not like those three countries are big military or nuclear powers. Costa Rica in particular literally has no armed forces... So why would China be spying on them? Could it be that the crazy bastards are formulating a plan for invading the US via the Southern border in case a war with China ever breaks out over Taiwan?

The United States has agreements with nations all over the world, ranging from simple embassies to Military bases. It's not such a stretch that we'd have pre-arranged agreements in places in South America that could serve as launch pads for our own arsenal, whether we actively store weapons there or not.

So it's very likely that the purpose of surveillance of South America is actually still to spy on U.S. activity.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which is pretty incredible. It was over Montana... then suddenly it's shot over the Atlantic? Meaning, the balloon had to pass over, like, South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Virginia, Delaware to then be shot over the Atlantic. Or am I missing something?

I don't think it was ever just sitting in one place and had kept moving. Seemingly in a path air currents were flowing, so I'm assuming it was carried by the winds right across and out to he ocean. But in a southeastern direction and out past the Carolinas. I think SC got the view of it being taken down. Sadly DE here didn't get that show.

-------------

Rep. Ann Wagner, a Missouri Republican, said she and her family watched as the balloon flew over her home state.

"President Biden's decision to let the [Chinese Communist Party] balloons travel the length and breadth of the United States of America was an unpardonable show of weakness on the world stage," Wagner said.

Well I didn't hear about her offering to let them shoot it down over top of her home and property.

[Andrew NDB]

Now we just shot down... something... over Alaska.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...03cc9f4d476f31

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Now we just shot down... something... over Alaska.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...03cc9f4d476f31

And since that day no-one have heard about reporter Kent.

[IMJ]

Read the description of the "object" in the article. At first, it sounds like the "tic-tac" but later they report that the object was at the whim of the wind for manuevering.