controversial issues - Page 2

*Cascadia* · 12-02-2003, 11:30 PM

in colorado, there is some same gender relationships with kids.....it does not affect the child at all.

*The Defibrillator* · 12-03-2003, 12:37 AM

I'm gonna go with M138 and Relay on this one.......it's just wrong in my opinion. Call me old fashioned......

~~Reznorite420~~ · 12-03-2003, 02:51 PM

Well well well...finally a topic I can REALLY say something about!

Long story short, I'm the son of a lesbian, and I lived with my mom and her partner for the past 3 years (sophomore, junior, and senior years of high school). That's not when I found out, however; mom let the cat out of the bag between my 6th and 7th grade years, so it was summer of 1997. At first, I didn't know what to feel, but something in the back of my mind was telling me that I should've suspected this already, considering my mom's minor lack of feminine behavior and appearances (her hair was shorter than mine at more than one point in my life!). That and the fact that sex stopped for my mom and dad shortly after I was born, hence both she and my dad were growing pretty irate from lack of, uh, yeah...

OK, as if the fact that I'm the son of a lesbian wasn't weird enough, here's the bigger twist: honest-to-God, my mom has actually felt this way for almost as long as she can remember. She told me about the time when she was a little kid asking my grandpa why she wasn't a boy. My grandpa being the intellectual that he was, wasn't at all befuddled by this and accepted her homosexuality as a normal part of life. She always brought her girlfriends home while in high school, heh.

It gets better: The typical stereotype is that these gay parents come out for the first time to their spouses after years of marriage...not true in my parents' case. I have a hard time convincing people that my dad already knew of my mom's orientation quite a while before they were even married, yet the married nonetheless...and for 15 years too. My mom's main goal was to start a "normal" family and have her own children born in heterosexual wedlock (even though my older sister was techincally concieved out of wedlock, she was BORN in it, so yeah). Hence, both my older sister and me are around today.

Both my mom and dad hoped they would "change" her to heterosexuality, but alas it didn't work, and it never will, because my mom's the way she is and always will be. No football-watching-good-ole-boy-macho-man bubba will ever convince me otherwise. So now hopefully some people on here will understand why I take great personal offense whenever anyone says something along lines of, "Oh, that's gay!" or "That's for homos!", etc. If you insult homosexuals, you're insulting a member of my family, and that ain't good on your part. Not to scare anyone, but I wish that I was able to beat the living sh*t out of anyone who even innocently says something of a homophobic nature in that sense...honestly, that's what I feel like doing EVERY time I hear, "That's so gay!", yada yada yada...

Therefore, and trust me, I really regret having to say this, but anybody on this board I've actually gotten along with very well in the past who have now given their "old fashioned" opinions about something: congratulations, you just lost my respect for you....permanently. And this won't be like the way I said when I said I tossed away my respect for NTN...nothing will get it back now. Good day.

*That Matt Guy* · 12-03-2003, 03:38 PM

Interesting life, Rez. I really don't know how I feel about this topic, I say I'm against it, but my opinions change like the wind. It personally doesn't affect me and I'm not some kind of anti-gay bigot, so who knows.

*PizzaPower* · 12-03-2003, 03:43 PM

Its just not right to me.

MTN889 · 12-03-2003, 03:51 PM

well golly gee gosh, sonny!

Whats a homosexual?

J/K (trying to act 50's ish)

I think that it's wrong, I could not live without a mothers love. It's impossible. Otherwise, your life will be horrible.

**Barkworm** · 12-03-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN889

I think that it's wrong, I could not live without a mothers love.

So you think there are only homosexual men or what?

Anyway, beside the fact that children of homosexual couples could be ridiculed in school or elsewhere there's nothing wrong with the idea.
This thread remembers me of the time when Rez wanted to kill me (rectally) because of my "Test it!"-thread...

*Dane E5R* · 12-03-2003, 05:22 PM

I don't think it's right.

Dinogrrl · 12-03-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

I think that it's wrong, I could not live without a mothers love.

As I'm sure Reznorite could attest, welcome to the fact that lesbians are largely invisible in our society, even when GLBT issues are raised.

Rez - thanks for telling your story - too many straight people walk around and form their ideas without ever actively knowing GLBT people or their families. As someone with a liberal upbringing and gay and lesbian friends, I see no correlation between sexual orientation and quality as a parent.

As for supposed teasing in school - well, Machi and others, that's one of the arguments they used against mixed race marriages and the adoption of kids of an ethnicity different from your own. 'Oh, those poor little kids will get confused, or teased, 'cause the color of their parents doesn't match them'. Most here would agree that while kids may well be teased for such a thing, it's asinine to suggest that therefore, banning mixed race marriages and adoptions is good.

Kids will tease for all things, sexual orientation is just one of a plethora of things. It's an unfortunate combination of kids stretching their socialization boundaries and the attitudes towards others that they learn from their parents.

As the kid of a single parent I also take offense at the suggestion that kids raised by one gender are defective in some way. If that one parent sucks at parenting, sure. But what's most important is the quality of the parenting, not the quantity or the gender.

I look foward to the time when people of any gender and orientation can be appreciated as parental material.

Savanti Romero · 12-03-2003, 08:00 PM

Well said Dinogrrl. The new hate is for homosexuals these days, so they get critized for parenting. This has all happened in our country before with racism and yet nothing was learned through history.

*Cascadia* · 12-03-2003, 09:21 PM

I am not entirely against the issue or for it.....it just depends on the situation.

**Machias Banshee** · 12-04-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scienctific freak

I am not entirely against the issue or for it.....it just depends on the situation.

Exactly.

**Barkworm** · 12-04-2003, 01:34 AM

Yeah, but it always depends on the situation, even with straight couples.

**Machias Banshee** · 12-04-2003, 04:53 AM

Hmm...I am certainly fascinated by this discussion. Seeing so many different points is very interesting. This has been an Enlightening Experience...

A lot of you have connected this to racism and sexism, and several other prejudices. I just wanted to make a lil comment on that a lil... Well, now that i look at it, a bit more than a lil...

Its frustrating and disappointing that these prejudices exist. We are all the same on the inside, no matter who you look at. A human being is a human being, no matter what color, age, sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, religion, weight (yes, there is severe prejudice in this as well), etc....

What's that saying.... "old habits die hard". I'm not saying that its good or bad or whatnot, but look at history...

Racism/sexism and racial/sexual degradation (i think thats a word...) was an issue in this country BEFORE it became a nation. Women have only reached a basic equality with man since the early 1900s, and racism didnt start letting up until the 1960s-70s. But yet we still have troubles with sexual harassment and hate crimes. Its slow but we are getting there. It is the same thing with sexual orientation. Its a slow process, but it IS getting much better...

A good friend of mine transferred from this school and headed back home to Massachusetts and attends college there. He openly admitted and took fun in debating who the cute guys on our campus were with me. It astonished me how horrid some people could be. Leaving messages on his doors, phone...rumors and gossip was the worst. He went through some of the worst depressions and such...

He finally upped and transferred to Amherst, we still talk a lot over Aim. He's told me about all the different people he's met, how much more open-minded people are there. He lived on a designated floor for the guys to live on, so they wouldnt have to worry about the critical people coming up to deface them and their belongings, and tells me constantly how much happier he is with his new school.

When the news came out about same-sex marriages being allowed in Massachusetts, no one up here cared.

Not so down in Mass...

His floor (about 40 guys in all...this is a Big school!) had a party THAT NIGHT! he came on and talked to me for about two hours! I had never seen him so excited about something, and I felt so happy for him.
Everyone should be able to feel that kind of happiness, no matter who they are...

So yeah...there's always going to be a lil prejudice no matter where you look, but there's also going to be that group that keeps its arms, minds and hearts open, and will always welcome you...

*raphael_is_cool* · 12-04-2003, 05:07 AM

I'm not against it, 2 gay parents may be better than 1 struggling parent which you get a lot of nowadays

Although I do understand the whole 'it's the kid with the gay parents' problems but I just wanted to make my little point without a whole overview

*Storm Wolf* · 12-04-2003, 03:50 PM

WoW...this is great!

Machi I really liked the last thing you said there...it's too true

and Rez i never knew that about you...thats really interesting and i'd really like to talk to you on that subject if ya don't mind that is (yes i'm seriously interested)

My freshmen year in high school was the first time i had ever met any homosexual people. I made a lot of senior friends and one of them was an openly gay guy named Bobby. He was a really awesome guy and i could never understand why people were so horrible to him. every lunch period it was a war with the other kids...they threw stuff at him and called him names, but he never cared. He said "All the people that I really need to care about are the people at this table...the ones who already accept me for who i am."

It was because of him that i have a great interest in such issues. i don't ever mean to sound rude but i am so interested in different religions and races and things like that...being different is so fascinating! I wish other people weren't so stubborn in there ways.....

*Raven* · 12-04-2003, 05:14 PM

I dont care for the "gay way of life" but them rasising a kid wouldnt affect the kid at all, unless there abusive or sothing like that.

~~Reznorite420~~ · 12-04-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Powers

and Rez i never knew that about you...thats really interesting and i'd really like to talk to you on that subject if ya don't mind that is (yes i'm seriously interested)

Don't hold your breath...it's not as if I was raised since birth with my mom and her partner, plus it doesn't bother me anyway...I kinda consider myself a bit more unique than most considering I was born in "normal" wedlock yet still having a homosexual parent.

*Storm Wolf* · 12-04-2003, 10:38 PM

I know...but it would still be interesting.....its good to be unique....i like talkingans meeting people that have slightly different lifestyles then myself

*Dr. Doom* · 12-05-2003, 12:10 AM

Yanno, the way I figure, sure, same sex parents pcould very well have an effect on a kid growing up, but so does everything else, so really, what's the big deal? As long as your Gypsy sorceress mother wasn't trapped in hell and you and Dr. Strange hadta go down there and trick Mephitso into freeing her soul, you should turn out fine.

View Poll Results: how do you feel about same sex adoptions?
This is wrong on every level!	9	31.03%
I'm not really sure how I feel....	6	20.69%
i see nothing wrong with this....	14	48.28%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

12-02-2003, 11:30 PM	#21
Cascadia Oregonian in heart & soul Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,731	in colorado, there is some same gender relationships with kids.....it does not affect the child at all. __________________ Formally known as Scientific freak

12-03-2003, 12:37 AM	#22
The Defibrillator Mad Scientist Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dee Eff Dubble You Posts: 1,631	I'm gonna go with M138 and Relay on this one.......it's just wrong in my opinion. Call me old fashioned...... __________________ My newest signature.

12-03-2003, 03:43 PM	#25
PizzaPower Foot Elite Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pizza Parlor Posts: 3,200	Its just not right to me. __________________ https://www.twitch.tv/turtlepizzapower

12-03-2003, 05:22 PM	#28
Dane E5R Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 1,602	I don't think it's right. __________________ http://www.luckyusshow.com

12-03-2003, 02:51 PM	#23
~~Reznorite420~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,851	Well well well...finally a topic I can REALLY say something about! Long story short, I'm the son of a lesbian, and I lived with my mom and her partner for the past 3 years (sophomore, junior, and senior years of high school). That's not when I found out, however; mom let the cat out of the bag between my 6th and 7th grade years, so it was summer of 1997. At first, I didn't know what to feel, but something in the back of my mind was telling me that I should've suspected this already, considering my mom's minor lack of feminine behavior and appearances (her hair was shorter than mine at more than one point in my life!). That and the fact that sex stopped for my mom and dad shortly after I was born, hence both she and my dad were growing pretty irate from lack of, uh, yeah... OK, as if the fact that I'm the son of a lesbian wasn't weird enough, here's the bigger twist: honest-to-God, my mom has actually felt this way for almost as long as she can remember. She told me about the time when she was a little kid asking my grandpa why she wasn't a boy. My grandpa being the intellectual that he was, wasn't at all befuddled by this and accepted her homosexuality as a normal part of life. She always brought her girlfriends home while in high school, heh. It gets better: The typical stereotype is that these gay parents come out for the first time to their spouses after years of marriage...not true in my parents' case. I have a hard time convincing people that my dad already knew of my mom's orientation quite a while before they were even married, yet the married nonetheless...and for 15 years too. My mom's main goal was to start a "normal" family and have her own children born in heterosexual wedlock (even though my older sister was techincally concieved out of wedlock, she was BORN in it, so yeah). Hence, both my older sister and me are around today. Both my mom and dad hoped they would "change" her to heterosexuality, but alas it didn't work, and it never will, because my mom's the way she is and always will be. No football-watching-good-ole-boy-macho-man bubba will ever convince me otherwise. So now hopefully some people on here will understand why I take great personal offense whenever anyone says something along lines of, "Oh, that's gay!" or "That's for homos!", etc. If you insult homosexuals, you're insulting a member of my family, and that ain't good on your part. Not to scare anyone, but I wish that I was able to beat the living sh*t out of anyone who even innocently says something of a homophobic nature in that sense...honestly, that's what I feel like doing EVERY time I hear, "That's so gay!", yada yada yada... Therefore, and trust me, I really regret having to say this, but anybody on this board I've actually gotten along with very well in the past who have now given their "old fashioned" opinions about something: congratulations, you just lost my respect for you....permanently. And this won't be like the way I said when I said I tossed away my respect for NTN...nothing will get it back now. Good day.

12-03-2003, 03:38 PM	#24
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	Interesting life, Rez. I really don't know how I feel about this topic, I say I'm against it, but my opinions change like the wind. It personally doesn't affect me and I'm not some kind of anti-gay bigot, so who knows.

12-03-2003, 03:51 PM	#26
MTN889 Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I would tell you, but i fear an attack of AOL Trial CDs. Posts: 665	well golly gee gosh, sonny! Whats a homosexual? J/K (trying to act 50's ish) I think that it's wrong, I could not live without a mothers love. It's impossible. Otherwise, your life will be horrible.

12-03-2003, 08:00 PM	#30
Savanti Romero Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 600	Well said Dinogrrl. The new hate is for homosexuals these days, so they get critized for parenting. This has all happened in our country before with racism and yet nothing was learned through history. __________________ "The sceptor has returned at last; and it's all mine!" -Savanti Romero, Vol. 1 issue 47 1992 AKA: [email protected] utromheadquarters.0catch.com

12-03-2003, 09:21 PM	#31
Cascadia Oregonian in heart & soul Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,731	I am not entirely against the issue or for it.....it just depends on the situation. __________________ Formally known as Scientific freak

12-04-2003, 01:34 AM	#33
Barkworm Draconian leftist ruler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 6,766	Yeah, but it always depends on the situation, even with straight couples. __________________ Make ****, not kill!

12-04-2003, 04:53 AM	#34
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	My final thoughts for this thread... Hmm...I am certainly fascinated by this discussion. Seeing so many different points is very interesting. This has been an Enlightening Experience... A lot of you have connected this to racism and sexism, and several other prejudices. I just wanted to make a lil comment on that a lil... Well, now that i look at it, a bit more than a lil... Its frustrating and disappointing that these prejudices exist. We are all the same on the inside, no matter who you look at. A human being is a human being, no matter what color, age, sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, religion, weight (yes, there is severe prejudice in this as well), etc.... What's that saying.... "old habits die hard". I'm not saying that its good or bad or whatnot, but look at history... Racism/sexism and racial/sexual degradation (i think thats a word...) was an issue in this country BEFORE it became a nation. Women have only reached a basic equality with man since the early 1900s, and racism didnt start letting up until the 1960s-70s. But yet we still have troubles with sexual harassment and hate crimes. Its slow but we are getting there. It is the same thing with sexual orientation. Its a slow process, but it IS getting much better... A good friend of mine transferred from this school and headed back home to Massachusetts and attends college there. He openly admitted and took fun in debating who the cute guys on our campus were with me. It astonished me how horrid some people could be. Leaving messages on his doors, phone...rumors and gossip was the worst. He went through some of the worst depressions and such... He finally upped and transferred to Amherst, we still talk a lot over Aim. He's told me about all the different people he's met, how much more open-minded people are there. He lived on a designated floor for the guys to live on, so they wouldnt have to worry about the critical people coming up to deface them and their belongings, and tells me constantly how much happier he is with his new school. When the news came out about same-sex marriages being allowed in Massachusetts, no one up here cared. Not so down in Mass... His floor (about 40 guys in all...this is a Big school!) had a party THAT NIGHT! he came on and talked to me for about two hours! I had never seen him so excited about something, and I felt so happy for him. Everyone should be able to feel that kind of happiness, no matter who they are... So yeah...there's always going to be a lil prejudice no matter where you look, but there's also going to be that group that keeps its arms, minds and hearts open, and will always welcome you...

12-04-2003, 05:07 AM	#35
raphael_is_cool Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,151	I'm not against it, 2 gay parents may be better than 1 struggling parent which you get a lot of nowadays Although I do understand the whole 'it's the kid with the gay parents' problems but I just wanted to make my little point without a whole overview

12-04-2003, 05:14 PM	#37
Raven follower of Jesus Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,212	I dont care for the "gay way of life" but them rasising a kid wouldnt affect the kid at all, unless there abusive or sothing like that. __________________ TMNT Future Despair Deviant Offical Ultimate Ninja Turtles Site!

12-05-2003, 12:10 AM	#40
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	Yanno, the way I figure, sure, same sex parents pcould very well have an effect on a kid growing up, but so does everything else, so really, what's the big deal? As long as your Gypsy sorceress mother wasn't trapped in hell and you and Dr. Strange hadta go down there and trick Mephitso into freeing her soul, you should turn out fine. __________________ I love you, Pickle.