Avengers 5: Doomsday

[sdp]

To me even 15 years ago it seemed obvious to me that studios just needed to continue with comic book movies as if they were still set in the same world and recasting, keeping these characters alive adventure after adventure, giving nods to continuity but at the same time being lax with it. Like James Bond did it successfully, it was technically the same Bond despite taking place in different decades.
WB was kind of doing this with the original Batman movies when they transitioned from Burton to Schumacher. Batman Begins would've also been a great Batman to continue had Nolan not messed it up by giving Bruce an ending.
Hell the DCU should've been a soft reboot to the DCEU, just giving these characters none of the prior baggage but new adventures that technically the older ones still happened.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

but they’re just throwing all of this together with zero buildup. What is going on over there?

They're desperate and in denial, they see that the MCU boom is gone and are trying to revive it at all costs.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

we didn't need an "ending" for all these characters.

The general audience wanted an ending, they'd been following the characters for ten years and were invested. They wanted a pay off. Even if End Game hadn't been an "ending" to most of the characters, people would've just gotten fed up and jumped ship. End Game gave them a conclusion to what they had been following and they loved it for it. The general audiences getting sick of the MCU was going to happen regardless, in fact it might've been more drastic had they continued it without some sort of 'end'.

[ToTheNines]

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Permanent? They never even should have happened to begin with. The MCU was finally growing into cohesion by about the time of Infinity War... we didn't need an "ending" for all these characters.

Also, this isn’t “the return” of Steve Rogers. He’s going to just go away again after this. They’re dusting him off for Doomsday/Secret Wars because they’re desperate, that’s it. Seems cheap.

I don’t know what I’m even expecting from these two movies. I guess I thought Doomsday would be a Dr. Doom movie with a real story and then SW would be the big dumb “everybody’s in it” event that capped off the Multiverse Saga. So it feels weird to me that they appear to be hitting the panic button for part 1. But I have no idea how these two will be structured, so we’ll see.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Also, this isn’t “the return” of Steve Rogers. He’s going to just go away again after this. They’re dusting him off for Doomsday/Secret Wars because they’re desperate, that’s it. Seems cheap.

I'm not so convinced. Chis Evans isn't exactly putting out any hits that aren't called "Captain America" so they could probably negotiate something at not-RDJ levels of insanity. And the Mackie Captain America seems to have already run its course unless they want to put out another flop just for the sake of it.

And jeeze. There's no really "clean" way to do that. Either there will just be two Captain Americas running around and we aren't supposed to think much about it... or the Mackie Cap will die and Evans will -- reluctantly -- take back up the shield. There really couldn't be him stepping back down to be Falcon or anything.

I don’t know what I’m even expecting from these two movies. I guess I thought Doomsday would be a Dr. Doom movie with a real story and then SW would be the big dumb “everybody’s in it” event that capped off the Multiverse Saga.

That's exactly what I thought this would be. It's not even outside the realm of possibility that that WAS the idea... until they decided they needed to beef it up even more. In fact, isn't it a bit strange they're announcing RDJ as Doom not just for this one but Secret Wars? As in, "Huh, I guess Doom wins, yeah?" Endgame had an excuse when we already knew Thanos would survive into it because Endgame was called "Infinity War Part 2" until fairly late into things.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm not so convinced. Chis Evans isn't exactly putting out any hits that aren't called "Captain America" so they could probably negotiate something at not-RDJ levels of insanity. And the Mackie Captain America seems to have already run its course unless they want to put out another flop just for the sake of it.

And jeeze. There's no really "clean" way to do that. Either there will just be two Captain Americas running around and we aren't supposed to think much about it... or the Mackie Cap will die and Evans will -- reluctantly -- take back up the shield. There really couldn't be him stepping back down to be Falcon or anything.

Sadly that's how Marvel is nowadays. Steve loses the effects of the serum and turns his real age, so Falcon steps up to be the new Cap. Steve regains his powers and youth.... but Falcon doesn't step down. Now we got 2 Captain Americas.

Wolverine dies for a few years. Laura becomes the new Wolverine. Wolverine comes back to life... Laura doesn't go back to being X23... now we got 2 Wolverines.

Deadpool had a similar thing, which led to a mini-series called Deadpools and Wolverines.

Miles takes over as Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe where Peter died. He's now in the 616 Universe which, as you know, Peter is still pretty much alive and active as Spider-Man. Miles doesn't change his codename or anything so now we got two Spider-Men. It's kinda silly considering that there are several Spider-Women but she doesn't have that problem. Gwen and Cindy call themselves Ghost Spider and Silk. They're not running around as Spider-Women as well.

Tony Stark was in a coma when Riri stepped up. Luckily they at least had the sense to call her Iron Heart instead of Iron Man since we knew eventually Tony was going to return.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Miles takes over as Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe where Peter died.

And Ultimate Peter came back from the dead and chose to let Miles keep the mantle while he travelled the world seeking answers as to how he survived, taking MJ with him. Peter eventually returned to New York after Miles crossed over to 616 and became Spider-Man again.

[ZariusTwo]

Saw the Thor leak, it was dubbed in french but looked legit enough. Glad to see him treated seriously again.

[ZariusTwo]

[Coola Yagami]

I guess one doesn't inherit the super soldier serum. I'm sure that kid would have been old enough in current day to replace both Walker and Sam as Captain America.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Saw the Thor leak, it was dubbed in french but looked legit enough. Glad to see him treated seriously again.

Same here. That stupid hack Taika” I hate Thor Comics” Watiti did serious damage to Thor

[sdp]

That's the most "look it's the characters you used to love, please come see this movie" teaser trailer I've ever seen.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Same here. That stupid hack Taika” I hate Thor Comics” Watiti did serious damage to Thor

And yet the brain numbs welcomed him to the franchise with open arms with Ragnarok. But I saw what was happening, and what would happen if that was successful.

[IMJ]

Obviously we don't know the reality of what they are doing with Downey as Doom, but the MCU drifted too far away from the source material that we want to see. These movies are more for simple-minded normies (the colosseum goers) than for true fans of the art (the philosophers) and it's all guided by Kevin Feige who doesn't give a $#!( about anything beyond manipulating the peasants (the Caesar).

Downey as Doom is not compelling at all. And it's a ridiculous amount of mental-gymnastics to make it satisfying by some reveal that it's actually Tony playing at being a multi-verse Doom in order to stop the real Doom and return to the MCU.

The pulled off something great with entire Thanos thing, but it didn't need to end with the death of Iron Man. Honestly, I don't look at that as "story served" as much as "actor and studio ego". And following that line of thought, Downey as Doom seems like more "Actor ego" with the "final encore to bow out", except that Stark as Doom is ridiculous.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Downey as Doom is not compelling at all. And it's a ridiculous amount of mental-gymnastics to make it satisfying by some reveal that it's actually Tony playing at being a multi-verse Doom in order to stop the real Doom and return to the MCU.

That's really the only way this will be palatable. Getting RDJ back as Iron Man riiight at the finish line when they do their soft reboot and recastings.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's really the only way this will be palatable. Getting RDJ back as Iron Man riiight at the finish line when they do their soft reboot and recastings.

Exactly. But it's too much of a stretch - this isn't a "return to the great MCU".
It's an epilogue for the original actors likely to take a final bow.

I honestly, sincerely hope that "Secret Wars" wipes the entire slate 100% clean, but it probably won't because there are movies coming out in between Doomsday and Secret Wars.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by IMJ

These movies are more for simple-minded normies (the colosseum goers) than for true fans of the art (the philosophers) and it's all guided by Kevin Feige who doesn't give a $#!( about anything beyond manipulating the peasants (the Caesar).

lol, I love this.

[Andrew NDB]

I think Feige was OK in the beginning years of the MCU but clearly he hit one too many Hollywood, liberal cocktail parties along the way and became comprised pretty fully. All the praises in the world you can sing about him, he's still the guy that approved stuff like the Marvels, Ironheart, Wonder Man, Love & Thunder and all of this stuff since Endgame. And instituted a company-wide directive away from straight, white male characters. If Feige's efforts had "worked" and an audience existed for it, we'd be knee deep right now in more sequels to the Marvels, with Riri and She-Hulk and Captain Two Moms popping up in everything. The (DEI) "Young Avengers" would have already been made and probably had a sequel by now, with solo movies probably planned for Hawkeye-woman, Kamala Khan and Captain Two Moms.

The unfortunate part is that even now, I don't really think there's anyone waiting in the wings that would be any better than Feige.

[sdp]

It's not that deep. They found a formulat that worked and replicated it movie after movie. I tapped out during phase 2 because of it but people were getting what they wanted and sure the content wasn't bad, just a bit by the numbers for me to care. But now that the stories they were invested in ended, there's no reason to watch these anymore for the average person as they see it's more of the same.

[IMJ]

Well, I will say this - most of the Marvel flicks aren't really all that great. The standouts are:

Iron Man
Cap Winter Soldier
The Avengers
Doctor Strange
Avengers: Infinity War
Spider-Man: No Way Home

I mean that's it. That's the true top-tier list of MCU flicks. Now the list bulges out underneath that one - the spread of "servicable and entertaining MCU flicks" gets a lot longer (i.e. all three Guardians movies) and then you have the truly formulaic junk flicks (the first two Thor flicks) and pretty much any movie with "THE MESSAGE" (majority of post-Endgame).

I mean hell, even here on this forum I'd be hard pressed to see anyone argue with that. Maybe some argument about "Black Panther" but I'd still file that movie as "garbage" from it's association as an "agenda flick" with some of the worst, T.V. grade VFX in any Marvel movie. I'd rather watch BP in Civil War where he was still amazing and promising.

[CyberCubed]

I think it's just diminishing returns. The movies also don't feel fresh anymore because they recycle the same formula, the jokes feel the same, the character interactions are the same, etc.

I mean they made what...like 40 movies over 15+ years? That's still an impressive run.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I guess one doesn't inherit the super soldier serum. I'm sure that kid would have been old enough in current day to replace both Walker and Sam as Captain America.

That kid would be in his 70s in current day.