Is Turtlemania more of an 80s or 90s phenomenon, in your mind?

[Prowler]

This is an old debate, I know. but honestly, I'm not sure what the right answer is.

The Fred Wolf series aired from 1987 to 1996. Its first season was 5 episodes long, only. Its two longest seasons were the third and fourth seasons, which are from 1989 and 1990, respectively.

Then there's the live action movies. The first one is from 1990. Huge success and arguably the peak of Turtlemania. Also, back in the day, not every animated series reached every part of the world at the same time or close to it as they do these days. The FW series started airing here in Portugal in 1990, AFTER the first movie came out, for example. SOTO, is from 1991, and also a hit. TMNT III is from 1993... and not that successful.

Turtlemania's "last hurrah" seems to have been the SNES version of Turtles in Time, which came out in 1992. By 1993, the Turtlemania phenomenon was cooling off.The 3rd movie was not that popular among fans, and the FW series was on its seventh season and also starting to suffer in the ratings. Next season, the Red Sky seasons would begin and they were 8 episodes only each. I think it's fair to say that in 1994-1996, the Turtlemania phenomenon was pretty much dead. No video games seemed to come out after the Tournament Fighters games in 1993 and the toyline was getting strange. Plus, none of the Red Sky characters got toys, did they?

So... Turtlemania is... 1988-1992? With peak being somewhere around 1989-1990 with the FW series having its 2 longest seasons, the first TMNT video games coming out and the 1990 movie as well.

Perhaps it's fairer to label Turtlemania as more of a phenomenon that markss the transition from the 80s to the 90s, instead?

[Andrew NDB]

Sort of a toss-up. 88 and 89 were REALLY big years for TMNT, but then so were 1990 and 1991. And just like that, it was "done." Beyond the cartoon still chugging along and a dwindling fandom.

I'd lean toward the 90s with 1990 and 1991 in particular. And I bet the toy/merch sales would back it up. Plus that's when the first two movies hit.

[MikeandRaph87]

Both. I have no memory whatsoever of anything before the Spring of 1990 and TMNT is among my earliest memories as an 80s' baby and 90s' kid. TMNT being my first pop culture love and greatest I see it at as a 90s' phenomenon, but acknowledge its both because it is between 1988-1993 being a part of both decades as a result. The 2003 cartoon proved that 1. TMNT is an evergreen property and 2. while its peak is behind it it is still enduring with bumps of success after the 1988-1993 peak.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Sort of a toss-up. 88 and 89 were REALLY big years for TMNT, but then so were 1990 and 1991. And just like that, it was "done." Beyond the cartoon still chugging along and a dwindling fandom.

I'd lean toward the 90s with 1990 and 1991 in particular. And I bet the toy/merch sales would back it up. Plus that's when the first two movies hit.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Both. I have no memory whatsoever of anything before the Spring of 1990 and TMNT is among my earliest memories as an 80s' baby and 90s' kid. TMNT being my first pop culture love and greatest I see it at as a 90s' phenomenon, but acknowledge its both because it is between 1988-1993 being a part of both decades as a result. The 2003 cartoon proved that 1. TMNT is an evergreen property and 2. while its peak is behind it it is still enduring with bumps of success after the 1988-1993 peak.

I agree with both of you.

Also, decades aren't isolated time periods. It's not like it was 1989 one day and the next day, with the calendar changing to 1990; the world, society and culture took a 180º turn. Many say that the first actual 90s cartoon was Batman TAS, which is from... 1992?

But while TMNT has become evergreen, its peak will forever be Turtlemania in the late 80s/early 90s. That's never gonna be topped.

[frank_one]

I would say Turtlemania was an early 90s thing in most of Europe. Here in Italy the Mirage comics only arrived in 1992 but lasted for only 4 issues, the Archie comics came around the same time but lasted a bit longer. The FW series started airing at the end of 1989 so when the 1990 arrived the turtles still were something new for us here and they were still big in 1993 when the third movie came out. But that was it, by 1994 we were ready to welcome the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and the interest for the Turtles started to fade away.

[ToTheNines]

Turtlemania came out in 1986.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by frank_one

I would say Turtlemania was an early 90s thing in most of Europe. Here in Italy the Mirage comics only arrived in 1992 but lasted for only 4 issues, the Archie comics came around the same time but lasted a bit longer. The FW series started airing at the end of 1989 so when the 1990 arrived the turtles still were something new for us here and they were still big in 1993 when the third movie came out. But that was it, by 1994 we were ready to welcome the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and the interest for the Turtles started to fade away.

Sounds about right.

I was born in 1990. I remember Power Rangers still being hot when I entered 1st grade. I even had a green ranger toy, even though I don't recall ever watching MMPR in my life. But I loved that toy, anyway.

Were Biker Mice from Mars popular in Italy, too? They were very big here back in 1994-1997 or so. I've never watched it myself, though.

[neatoman]

If we're talking about the era of FW, Archie and the first two live-action movies that an unhealthy portion of the fanbase refuse to let go of, then it would be a mostly 90's thing that started at the end of the 80's.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Were Biker Mice from Mars popular in Italy, too? They were very big here back in 1994-1997 or so. I've never watched it myself, though.

They were popular here as well but not for long, I guess. Maybe an year or two. The toys were great!

As for the Turtles, I did a quick research and I find out that the Archie comics series was brought to Italy by two different publisher:
- DeAgostini (1990-1992?): magazine size floppies containing an episode. The covers were taken from the Fleetway version published in the UK.
- Edigamma (1992-1994?): pocket size books with more comics pages and some games and short text stories. Not sure where the covers come from, they probably used exsisting stock artworks edited together by the publisher.

Both are very rare, I don't think they ever reach a big success.

[Coola Yagami]

For me the last hurrah was TMNT Tournament Fighters, the SNES one anyway.

I still it was the best original from the ground up fighting game on the SNES. Any other fighting game only played right because they were arcade adaptations. The other all-originals were either crap like Shaq Fu and Ballz or they played like crap like Clayfighter.

[CyberCubed]

I'd actually consider 1995-1996 the end for 3 reasons:

- Mirage Volume 2 ended at this time, and Mirage stopped publishing comics till 2001

- The original TMNT cartoon ended its 10 season run in 1995

- Archie TMNT Adventures ended with Year of the Turtle in 1995

- The movie trilogy was over since 1993


1995/1996 was basically the cut-off point of "Gen 1" of Turtlemania. After that you just had Image and Next Mutation in 1997 but they were obscure to most fans at the time.

[ToTheNines]

FW season 10 and Year of the Turtle were both 1996.

[frank_one]

Even if Next Mutation had been better, it wouldn't have succeded in regaining the interest back, it was too late.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by frank_one

They were popular here as well but not for long, I guess. Maybe an year or two. The toys were great!

As for the Turtles, I did a quick research and I find out that the Archie comics series was brought to Italy by two different publisher:
- DeAgostini (1990-1992?): magazine size floppies containing an episode. The covers were taken from the Fleetway version published in the UK.
- Edigamma (1992-1994?): pocket size books with more comics pages and some games and short text stories. Not sure where the covers come from, they probably used exsisting stock artworks edited together by the publisher.

Both are very rare, I don't think they ever reach a big success.

Oh I didn't mean literally from 1994 to 1997. Just, more or less, within that time frame. I no longer remember when that cartoon series aired.


Planeta D'Agostini! I bought stuff from them as a kid as well. Not any Turtles related stuff, but I'd not be surprised they sold TMNT stuff in 1990-1992 here.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

For me the last hurrah was TMNT Tournament Fighters, the SNES one anyway.

I still it was the best original from the ground up fighting game on the SNES. Any other fighting game only played right because they were arcade adaptations. The other all-originals were either crap like Shaq Fu and Ballz or they played like crap like Clayfighter.

Well, I'm not talking about quality here, but popularity and commercial success. I don't think any of the Tournament Fighters games were successful. They were all different from each other, for starters. The NES one came out pretty much near the end of the system's life. 1993 was pretty much peak SNES/Mega Drive aka 16 bit era, already. Not that many people were still buying NES games by then, surely.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'd actually consider 1995-1996 the end for 3 reasons:

- Mirage Volume 2 ended at this time, and Mirage stopped publishing comics till 2001

- The original TMNT cartoon ended its 10 season run in 1995

- Archie TMNT Adventures ended with Year of the Turtle in 1995

- The movie trilogy was over since 1993


1995/1996 was basically the cut-off point of "Gen 1" of Turtlemania. After that you just had Image and Next Mutation in 1997 but they were obscure to most fans at the time.

I see what you mean, but I was 5-6 years old at the time, and the Turtles were already a thing of the past where I live. I'm not even sure if the Red Sky seasons aired here, in fact...

Originally Posted by frank_one

Even if Next Mutation had been better, it wouldn't have succeded in regaining the interest back, it was too late.

TNM aired in Portugal around 1997-1998, according to a couple of guys around my age I spoke to many years ago. they remember watching it as kids. I don't, even though I'd have been 7-8 years old at the time. Anyway, even they admitted "man that show was lousy!" even though they watched it when they were kids

Originally Posted by neatoman

If we're talking about the era of FW, Archie and the first two live-action movies that an unhealthy portion of the fanbase refuse to let go of, then it would be a mostly 90's thing that started at the end of the 80's.

Yes, ofc we're talking about that era. That was the peak of TMNT popularity, whether we like it or not. How many of us here would even know of TMNT if not for that era?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Even if Next Mutation had been better, it wouldn't have succeded in regaining the interest back, it was too late.

That's really hard to say. Each generation of kids generally wants "THEIR" own thing, so maybe if NT:TNM had come out a couple of years later and had been way better it'd be a very different situation.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's really hard to say. Each generation of kids generally wants "THEIR" own thing, so maybe if NT:TNM had come out a couple of years later and had been way better it'd be a very different situation.

As I said, even the few people I've spoken to who watched TNM when they were little kids laugh about it as adults nowadays "Man, that show was so lousy!"

So it looks like not even kids were "fooled" by TNM's apparent lack of quality...

[Andrew NDB]

Even if NT:TNM had just lived up to Kevin Eastman's press releases about it being so dark and gritty and "grown up" I think it might have had a chance. I was only like 16 when it came out... hardly like an old man or anything. If something like that had hit and the now-heading-toward-adulthood Turtlemania generation received something like that, a little more grown up, maybe it would have resonated with previous fans.

[Barkworm]

Oh man. I remember seeing a 5 second ad for it when I was 15 and got incredibly excited. Then I saw the full TV-spot and realized it was done by the Power Rangers people, including an actual crossover episode. What a bummer that was.

[Prowler]

It's funny. TNM is considered a bad show by most TMNT fans. And no one misses Venus or considers her canon. You could say TNM was the swan song of Turtlemania, even if it was cooling down a ton by 1993 and TMNT III was the one to technically end it. But TNM could have reignited the spark and... we know how that went.

Yet, no one seems to care about TNM these days. Most of us will say it sucked, sure, but just leave it at it. There's no "hatred" for it like there is for Bay Turtles or Rise, for example. I guess it' because TNM was never that relevant in the first place, which means most casuals don't even remember it. Thus, it's not a "threat" to the TMNT property anymore and stopped being so after it went off air in 1997/1998.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, there was no real TMNT around at the time for whose good name NT:TNM could tarnish beyond the Image comic, which was hardly apples to apples. All we had to hope for at the time was a nebulous fourth movie that kept sounding worse and worse with every snippet that would come out about it. That maybe, maybe it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it sounded like.