Eastman refers to Shredder as "Karai's father" in Ult. collection 5

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by shuriken

He was emotional and arguably always had those feeling about April. She is the one that wanted him to grow up. To me Gabrielle (as messed up as this is gonna sound) was only there to help Casey grow up. Without his experience with Gabrielle he would never have been able to be ina real relationship with April.
As fro Eastman thinking Karai was Saki's daughter, meh. It happens. I also find it kind of odd/ funny that the only other incarnations that showed Karai as Shred's equal or Superior were The videogames and the 2007 movie, which was amazing.

I don't think I've quite thought of Gabrielle's role like that before. It's been some time since I read those books, so I always just thought of her as a delivery method for Shadow to enter the story.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Yes, let's throw all logic out the window and say a 35-ish man can have a, if not adult, then a young adult granddaughter.

It was a joke, and it was also a loose reference to how all other continuities make her Shredder's daughter. Also a remark on how ifone of the co-creators thinks a concept is good enough for Turtles, that gives it a lot of weight to me.

[Candy Kappa]

Not all, she's a grand (insert several grands) daughter in IDW.

Given Kevin hasn't worked on Mirage for a long time, I doubt he referring Karai as Shredders daughter is intentional.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Not all, she's a grand (insert several grands) daughter in IDW.

Given Kevin hasn't worked on Mirage for a long time, I doubt he referring Karai as Shredders daughter is intentional.

*sigh* FIIIIINE! I meant descendant/adopted daughter/however you want to nitpick it. Every other version besides Mirage has had a familial connection, and made her subservient to Shredder. Only in Mirage, where she was- in my view- as bland as carboard, did she stand on her own.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Powder

Yes & no. When you actually break it down, technically, she's still never been his daughter. In 2k3 Shredder was an utrom dressed as a man who took her in, in the Nick toon he stole her from Yoshi as a child, and in IDW he's actually her great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather or something. Pretty funny actually.

That's a really good point. I was pretty weirded out/confused by the comment when I read it too.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

*sigh* FIIIIINE! I meant descendant/adopted daughter/however you want to nitpick it. Every other version besides Mirage has had a familial connection, and made her subservient to Shredder. Only in Mirage, where she was- in my view- as bland as carboard, did she stand on her own.

So your opinion aside, she only stands alone... in the source material. Good enough for me.

Though it's not entirely clear if she was either containing a familial connection to Saki or subservient to him in the fourth movie, though as much as she was worried about him coming back and all that it's probably a fair bet at least the latter is a fair bet.

[ToTheNines]

So apparently this idea is so ingrained in Eastman’s head that it’s the sole reason Last Ronin as we know it became a separate universe from Mirage.

I just listened to an interview with Tom Waltz and he said they originally intended to make TLR a Mirage story but had to change directions “at the last minute” because they realized they had written Karai as Saki’s daughter and that wasn’t compatible, obviously.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

So apparently this idea is so ingrained in Eastman’s head that it’s the sole reason Last Ronin as we know it became a separate universe from Mirage.

I just listened to an interview with Tom Waltz and he said they originally intended to make TLR a Mirage story but had to change directions “at the last minute” because they realized they had written Karai as Saki’s daughter and that wasn’t compatible, obviously.

What about the rainbow bandannas? Or by that point were they just like, "We already f***ed up on Karai, so just f*** it now" ?

It's kind of a mixed bag. On the one hand, I'm glad Mirage retroactively dodged what in many ways was a Future Story with a ton of Nickelodeon notes. On the other, it might have given a ton more significance to the Next Generation Turtles they started up. If The Last Ronin II and III and so on were literally giving us Mirage: The Next Generation and not Random Spinoff TMNT Universe #23023: The Next Generation.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What about the rainbow bandannas? Or by that point were they just like, "We already f***ed up on Karai, so just f*** it now" ?

They probably just started doing whatever once they realized it would not be in the Mirage universe. On that matter specifically, I would imagine the second Nickelodeon heard “not Mirage” they told them to shove those red masks up their asses.

It's kind of a mixed bag. On the one hand, I'm glad Mirage retroactively dodged what in many ways was a Future Story with a ton of Nickelodeon notes. On the other, it might have given a ton more significance to the Next Generation Turtles they started up. If The Last Ronin II and III and so on were literally giving us Mirage: The Next Generation and not Random Spinoff TMNT Universe #23023: The Next Generation.

Good points.