LoZ: Twilight Princess *Spoilers* - Page 8

**Barkworm** · 12-30-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

What?! What happened to 70 hours? You can't finish the game before me, cheater!

HAHA! Another German victory against the Netherlands!!!

*Dr. Doom* · 12-30-2006, 02:02 PM

I seriously don't know where all the hatred is coming from. It's just strange to me after how impressed with everything I was that so many people are reacting in the opposite way. I loved the soundtrack. There was tons of memorable music and the game was anything but boring, especially because of the new items and unique boss fights. I did take exception with the fact that those last three dungeons were like one right after the other, but as long as I took a break inbetween I was fine.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-30-2006, 02:22 PM

Well, I think you all expect too much from the game, and are a bit jaded, but that's just me. I mean, common. Comparing the game to AlttP? They're completely different and separated by fourteen years. If anything, compare it to Ocarina for a fair judgment. My opinion stands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicDonny

Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot because they overhyped it for saying that this will eb the best and looks like u all don't think so.

Speak for yourself bud.

**Barkworm** · 12-30-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Comparing the game to AlttP? They're completely different and separated by fourteen years.

I'm comparing the music, my friend. That is not different at all.

Peanut · 12-30-2006, 02:33 PM

How can you expect too much from a Zelda game? It's Zelda! We've played this same game 3 times now. We know what to expect. For me it's just the fact that it's been the same thing for nearly 10 years now, and besides some graphical upgrades the franchise hasn't evolved in the slightest in almost a decade!

It also has to do with our ages, I think. LoZ on NES? Something completely different when I was young. LttP? once again, dramatic changes, a game that would just make a kids imagination run wild. I was 13 or 14 when OoT was released. Seeing Zelda in full 3D, all that wide-open space. That sh*t was awe-inspiring, because there was just nothing like it. Majora's Mask was still a Zelda game, but it was quirky and different, then The Wind Waker comes along and flips the entire franchise over. Yet again, completely new experience. Now here comes TP and...oh...it's a prettier OoT...with half-assed wolf elements...that's...cool. I guess?

Twilight Princess was hyped too much and had way too much of a history to live up to. Especially for us gamers who grew up playing Zelda games. It promised too much and delivered too little. Plain and simple.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-30-2006, 03:12 PM

Well, I disagree, but whatever. Personally, I view this as the last game of it's breed before Nintendo goes off to smoke the peace pipe again. Where that will lead us is yet to be known, but one thing will be certain. It will be different from this. Different is wonderful, but so is the familiar, so I love this game. I don't really see how anyone could get tired of this. Anyways....

On to more important issues. When are you buggernuts going to add me to your friend lists? I've only had two people add me since I got my new router. I WANT SOME MII'S DAMMIT.

kthxbye

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-31-2006, 03:33 PM

Round Two: ...FIGHT!

One thing I don't want though in Zelda games is speech....of any kind, whatsoever. I love the fact that character's mouths move, but the dialect is written in text form. Spoken language would ruin the illusion that all the characters speak a foreign/ancient dialect (Hyrulian), it would possibly bring in horribly annoying actors that could tarnish people's opinions of characters they might have otherwise liked, and last but not least, the text gives the game the feeling of reading/viewing an epic interactive novel. Besides, you've got to leave something to the imagination.

Since nobody here was all that impressed with Twilight, what do you want in a Zelda game? Personally I'm completely happy, and don't know how they will top this, but I'm sure they will some day.

*Dr. Doom* · 12-31-2006, 03:36 PM

It would just be weird, hearing people talk in there. It's weird enough with Midna.

愛 · 12-31-2006, 04:18 PM

I didn't say I didn't like the game. I simply feel that it plays too much like Ocarina of Time, with a lot of shortcomings. Personally, I'm enjoying the game, but not like I should be.

I'm at the fourth dungeon now at 10 hours gametime. I'm rocking this game's face off. I'm missing a lot of stuff, though. Heart pieces, poes, a piece of armor, the bigger wallet/bomb bag/quiver, etc. I'm just trying to finish the game, then go back and get everything.

*Cure* · 12-31-2006, 07:43 PM

I loved every bit of this game, even the ones others are complaining about. So I guess I'm on the same boat as TMB.

*Mecha Cow* · 12-31-2006, 07:58 PM

I just finished it.

Spoiler:

Review soon. Happy New Year's everyone.

*Brodie* · 12-31-2006, 11:06 PM

I have to say I enjoy TP. Its just fun. Its supposed to be since its a game. And compaired to Majora, that wasnt fun. Wind Waker, though I thought I disliked it initially, but loved the design, I did enjoy the game, cause it played like a cartoon, in a sense. But TP is a different beast (pardon the term). The design is amazing. Was it catering to OoT lovers? Yeah. Did it make it better? Absolutely.

Maybe it would help to think of it as a remake.

For a terrible term, think Micheal Bay's Zelda.

~~LogicDonny~~ · 01-01-2007, 12:27 AM

Well the problem with the ending is that they were expecting an endign that was connected to wind waker.. You know

Spoiler:

but it was totally different..

**ThirdMarioBro** · 01-01-2007, 03:21 AM

I'm barely half way through, partly because I'm slow at Zelda games, partly because I would rather take it slowly and live the experience rather than speedrun through and get another game going, and also because I'm sharing it with my sister since she isn't good enough to go it alone, yet loves Zelda as much as me. So I let her get to experience it too.

See, this may just be Ocarina 2.0 from a gameplay perspective (or 3.0 if you count Wind Waker). I'm not seeing that. I look at the greater picture. I'm not here to judge the graphics. I'm not here to analyze the 44Khz sample rate of the music. I don't worry myself with analyzing if this is the same engine as the last game, or how much innovation has been pumped into the gameplay (I mean, you guys complain about the game feeling old, yet you put Ocarina on a pillar of perfection.....wtf?), or how some challenges drag on (and quit complaining. The wolf stuff was eeeasy). I'm here for the story, character interaction, and to get lost in another world. Zelda stories are simple, but they way they immerse you into it is unmatched. All the other stuff falls into place for me. I'm also not going to post my final completion time. Call me embarrassed for being so slow at it, or whatever. Simply put, I don't care how I rank to everyone else, because that's not why I'm playing it, and I don't care how I measure up in result. I don't play games to rank myself against everyone else. When did that become the qualifying stigma for a gamer? No thanks. I'm here to immerse myself, not "play the game, then jump into another one". I waited three and a half years for this experience to take one more trip into that mystical land the N64 tried to show me through it's blurry cataract ridden eyesight, and I'll be damned if I'm not going to take my time and soak it all up, because this is probably, if not definitely, the last time I'll ever see it before we move on to something totally new.

Another little thing about the music. I think this is Koji Kondo's masterpiece. I met him at E3 during a simi-interview, and he said that this has been the toughest challenge of his career...then he signed my Ocarina of Time Master Quest case, right next to Miyamoto's, Iwata's, and Charles Martinet's signiture. FTW. I can see how it must have been difficult, but the results astound me. I love VGM of all kinds, but TP is now at the top of my list. When the

Spoiler:

played during the appearance of the

Spoiler:

, I almost broke down. I always adored that beautiful song (and the rest of the Ocarina melodies), but the fact that it/they was limited to 20 seconds was frustrating. I always tried to play with the song on the piano and make it longer. Now it's a full song, and a damned beautiful one at that. Uniquely enough, it almost sounds exactly how I arranged a full version in my mind all those years ago. I got the same feeling when the

Spoiler:

gently played as the sun rose. Chills went down my spine. The field music is better than Ocarina, and makes me feel like I'm doing something important. I actually went to sleep last night with the Lake Hilya theme playing in Winamp last night. You get the point. And the way they used the classic Zelda lead in as the title theme? Fu*king priceless.

Also, I don't see how it can be considered a "remake" in any way. It's a direct continuation of Ocarina, in a different time (200 years or so forward), but in the same general place. You can see the remains of places that once were, and things you once knew. Things move, the world changes, but it is obviously a continuation, while not lying on historical reference to tell the story. It's darned subtle, and you wouldn't catch the references unless you played Ocarina, through it's certainly not a requirement in any way. All Zelda games (except Majora and Link's Awakening) stand alone in the timeline, but this one definitely has some optional roots to explorer. Continuation? Yes. Sequel? Maaaaybe, depending on how you look at it, though it can still stand along, again, depending on how you want to view it. Remake? No way.

Obviously the game is a love letter to Zelda fans who love Ocarina and wanted to experience a completely new adventure, yet also quietly see their personal favorite Zelda be honored, while getting it's ass kicked in every department. It has more personality and feeling than any game I've played, and it also is the most immersive, and cinematic Zelda in the series as far as I'm concerned (though Wind Waker is a damned high second). Being the insane Zelda fan I am, I love to see it honor the past in so many subtle ways, but it does not use them as a crutch and stands as it's own game. You can perfectly enjoy the game just fine without any knowledge of the past whatsoever.

To sum it up, I think you're all become too jaded and judgmental.

Don't worry. I still love all of you jaded bastards.

愛 · 01-01-2007, 08:41 AM

That's okay, because I still think you're a Nintendo fanboy who refuses change.

And I wouldn't say that I'm judgmental. I would say that I don't like to waste my money on bad games. You seem to do that, though. From what I gather, you like Twilight Princess simply because it's a Zelda game, and no other reason. You overlook the shortcomings just because it's a franchise from your childhood. If that's how you roll, hey, whatever. I judge my games based on gameplay, music, and replay value. Just because it's from a franchise that delivers 99% of the time, doesn't mean I'm going to like it. This game has its problems, yet you refuse to address them. It's okay to not like something from Nintendo, you know. Your company isn't going to send out a legion of assassins to take your life away.

Just a thought.

**Barkworm** · 01-01-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Round Two: ...FIGHT!

One thing I don't want though in Zelda games is speech....of any kind, whatsoever. I love the fact that character's mouths move, but the dialect is written in text form. Spoken language would ruin the illusion that all the characters speak a foreign/ancient dialect (Hyrulian),[...].

Again, go play "Shadow of the Colossus" or "Ico". Both games have voice acting but the characters speak in a fictional language and it works PERFECTLY. Something like that would definitely add to the experience.

Peanut · 01-01-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

To sum it up, I think you're all become too jaded and judgmental.

I'm not jaded, but I sure as hell am judgmental. I'm just not the kind of person who's going to sit back and eat everything Nintendo throws at me. I'm not going to let them tell me what the best game ever is, then blindly fall in line with the rest of the zealots.

Twilight Princess simply has too many short-comings to be called the greatest game (be that Zelda or any other) of all time. And you're acting like none of us were impressed with the game. I loved the game, it was great. One of the best ones I played this year, but I don't even think it slightly deserves to be put up on a pedestal like some people are doing.

There's a difference between being disappointed in something and not liking it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Again, go play "Shadow of the Colossus" or "Ico". Both games have voice acting but the characters speak in a fictional language and it works PERFECTLY. Something like that would definitely add to the experience.

I never even thought of that, but yes. That's the type of thing Zelda could benefit from.

*Brodie* · 01-01-2007, 12:38 PM

Actually, that's how Midna talks in TP. Much like the spirits in Shadow of the Colossus. Except its just very short bits of speech.

*Dr. Doom* · 01-01-2007, 12:46 PM

I loved the game because it was a good game. And since TMB and I are pretty much on the same page about everything else regarding it, I'm assuming he feels the same way. Though I suppose I can only speak for myself.

*Kid Icarus* · 01-01-2007, 08:07 PM

Without digging through all of the argument crap that's going on, here's my take.

You all expect too damn much. You KNEW it was going to be Ocarina of Time 2 going into it, so what's with all the damn bitching about that? And, really, is that a bad thing?

What else can they really do with the 3D Zelda design? They tried making a change in Wind Waker with sailing, and that flopped.

And Peanut... it's funny that you think LttP is such a big step over LoZ. Someone needs to revisit these games. They're the SAME design, but LttP is more linear, and has more hand holding.

As far as I'm concerned, Wiimote wagging or not, this is the best 3D Zelda made. The controls are solid (Really, I've never had problems them. I don't get where the hell you find timing issues.. I move my wrist, the sword goes. If you think it's going to trigger a split second later, start the damn action sooner. Just takes a little brain power.)

I use Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest 8, Resident Evil, and Eternal Darkness as examples of why voice acting should NOT be done in games. Is it that hard for you guys to read a few lines of text? ****. And what happens if they DO do it, and you decide you don't like one of the voices? You'll knock the game for that too, I bet.

It also seems to that Peanut just likes to complain to complain. "ZOMG they didn't do something I want, so it's not worthy!" Please. Go find something better to do, really, because it's old.

12-30-2006, 02:02 PM	#142
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	I seriously don't know where all the hatred is coming from. It's just strange to me after how impressed with everything I was that so many people are reacting in the opposite way. I loved the soundtrack. There was tons of memorable music and the game was anything but boring, especially because of the new items and unique boss fights. I did take exception with the fact that those last three dungeons were like one right after the other, but as long as I took a break inbetween I was fine. __________________ I love you, Pickle.

12-30-2006, 03:12 PM	#146
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Well, I disagree, but whatever. Personally, I view this as the last game of it's breed before Nintendo goes off to smoke the peace pipe again. Where that will lead us is yet to be known, but one thing will be certain. It will be different from this. Different is wonderful, but so is the familiar, so I love this game. I don't really see how anyone could get tired of this. Anyways.... On to more important issues. When are you buggernuts going to add me to your friend lists? I've only had two people add me since I got my new router. I WANT SOME MII'S DAMMIT. kthxbye __________________

12-31-2006, 03:33 PM	#147
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Round Two: ...FIGHT! One thing I don't want though in Zelda games is speech....of any kind, whatsoever. I love the fact that character's mouths move, but the dialect is written in text form. Spoken language would ruin the illusion that all the characters speak a foreign/ancient dialect (Hyrulian), it would possibly bring in horribly annoying actors that could tarnish people's opinions of characters they might have otherwise liked, and last but not least, the text gives the game the feeling of reading/viewing an epic interactive novel. Besides, you've got to leave something to the imagination. Since nobody here was all that impressed with Twilight, what do you want in a Zelda game? Personally I'm completely happy, and don't know how they will top this, but I'm sure they will some day. __________________

12-31-2006, 03:36 PM	#148
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	It would just be weird, hearing people talk in there. It's weird enough with Midna. __________________ I love you, Pickle.

12-31-2006, 07:58 PM	#151
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	I just finished it. Spoiler: ...Wow. Four years of development for...this? I don't understand what happened here, I really don't. This game should have been the best Zelda yet, and it just...isn't, nor does it make any effort to be. The final battle was cool I guess (Except for the buttonmashing contest - Really now), except I didn't really care since I had no clue what Ganon and Zelda were even doing in this game to begin with. It's supposed to bring a smile to your face when the credits roll in a Zelda game, but I just sat there with a blank stare, waiting for an ending (To be fair, this happened during and after the credits) ...Or maybe I was still waiting for the game to begin. I've had a sh*tty night, so forgive me if I sound too negative, but this game has just been a complete dissappointment in every way. Not bad, dissappointing. Review soon. Happy New Year's everyone. __________________

12-30-2006, 02:33 PM	#145
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	How can you expect too much from a Zelda game? It's Zelda! We've played this same game 3 times now. We know what to expect. For me it's just the fact that it's been the same thing for nearly 10 years now, and besides some graphical upgrades the franchise hasn't evolved in the slightest in almost a decade! It also has to do with our ages, I think. LoZ on NES? Something completely different when I was young. LttP? once again, dramatic changes, a game that would just make a kids imagination run wild. I was 13 or 14 when OoT was released. Seeing Zelda in full 3D, all that wide-open space. That sh*t was awe-inspiring, because there was just nothing like it. Majora's Mask was still a Zelda game, but it was quirky and different, then The Wind Waker comes along and flips the entire franchise over. Yet again, completely new experience. Now here comes TP and...oh...it's a prettier OoT...with half-assed wolf elements...that's...cool. I guess? Twilight Princess was hyped too much and had way too much of a history to live up to. Especially for us gamers who grew up playing Zelda games. It promised too much and delivered too little. Plain and simple.

12-31-2006, 04:18 PM	#149
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	I didn't say I didn't like the game. I simply feel that it plays too much like Ocarina of Time, with a lot of shortcomings. Personally, I'm enjoying the game, but not like I should be. I'm at the fourth dungeon now at 10 hours gametime. I'm rocking this game's face off. I'm missing a lot of stuff, though. Heart pieces, poes, a piece of armor, the bigger wallet/bomb bag/quiver, etc. I'm just trying to finish the game, then go back and get everything.

12-31-2006, 07:43 PM	#150
Cure Y'all need Jesus Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 8,938	I loved every bit of this game, even the ones others are complaining about. So I guess I'm on the same boat as TMB.

12-31-2006, 11:06 PM	#152
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	I have to say I enjoy TP. Its just fun. Its supposed to be since its a game. And compaired to Majora, that wasnt fun. Wind Waker, though I thought I disliked it initially, but loved the design, I did enjoy the game, cause it played like a cartoon, in a sense. But TP is a different beast (pardon the term). The design is amazing. Was it catering to OoT lovers? Yeah. Did it make it better? Absolutely. Maybe it would help to think of it as a remake. For a terrible term, think Micheal Bay's Zelda. __________________ Stupendous Monster

01-01-2007, 12:27 AM	#153
~~LogicDonny~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,643	Well the problem with the ending is that they were expecting an endign that was connected to wind waker.. You know Spoiler: the flooding of hyrule but it was totally different..

01-01-2007, 03:21 AM	#154
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	I'm barely half way through, partly because I'm slow at Zelda games, partly because I would rather take it slowly and live the experience rather than speedrun through and get another game going, and also because I'm sharing it with my sister since she isn't good enough to go it alone, yet loves Zelda as much as me. So I let her get to experience it too. See, this may just be Ocarina 2.0 from a gameplay perspective (or 3.0 if you count Wind Waker). I'm not seeing that. I look at the greater picture. I'm not here to judge the graphics. I'm not here to analyze the 44Khz sample rate of the music. I don't worry myself with analyzing if this is the same engine as the last game, or how much innovation has been pumped into the gameplay (I mean, you guys complain about the game feeling old, yet you put Ocarina on a pillar of perfection.....wtf?), or how some challenges drag on (and quit complaining. The wolf stuff was eeeasy). I'm here for the story, character interaction, and to get lost in another world. Zelda stories are simple, but they way they immerse you into it is unmatched. All the other stuff falls into place for me. I'm also not going to post my final completion time. Call me embarrassed for being so slow at it, or whatever. Simply put, I don't care how I rank to everyone else, because that's not why I'm playing it, and I don't care how I measure up in result. I don't play games to rank myself against everyone else. When did that become the qualifying stigma for a gamer? No thanks. I'm here to immerse myself, not "play the game, then jump into another one". I waited three and a half years for this experience to take one more trip into that mystical land the N64 tried to show me through it's blurry cataract ridden eyesight, and I'll be damned if I'm not going to take my time and soak it all up, because this is probably, if not definitely, the last time I'll ever see it before we move on to something totally new. Another little thing about the music. I think this is Koji Kondo's masterpiece. I met him at E3 during a simi-interview, and he said that this has been the toughest challenge of his career...then he signed my Ocarina of Time Master Quest case, right next to Miyamoto's, Iwata's, and Charles Martinet's signiture. FTW. I can see how it must have been difficult, but the results astound me. I love VGM of all kinds, but TP is now at the top of my list. When the Spoiler: Serenade of Water played during the appearance of the Spoiler: Zora Queen's spirit , I almost broke down. I always adored that beautiful song (and the rest of the Ocarina melodies), but the fact that it/they was limited to 20 seconds was frustrating. I always tried to play with the song on the piano and make it longer. Now it's a full song, and a damned beautiful one at that. Uniquely enough, it almost sounds exactly how I arranged a full version in my mind all those years ago. I got the same feeling when the Spoiler: Sun Song gently played as the sun rose. Chills went down my spine. The field music is better than Ocarina, and makes me feel like I'm doing something important. I actually went to sleep last night with the Lake Hilya theme playing in Winamp last night. You get the point. And the way they used the classic Zelda lead in as the title theme? Fuking priceless. Also, I don't see how it can be considered a "remake" in any way. It's a direct continuation of Ocarina, in a different time (200 years or so forward), but in the same general place. You can see the remains of places that once were, and things you once knew. Things move, the world changes, but it is obviously a continuation, while not lying on historical reference to tell the story. It's darned subtle, and you wouldn't catch the references unless you played Ocarina, through it's certainly not a requirement in any way. All Zelda games (except Majora and Link's Awakening) stand alone in the timeline, but this one definitely has some optional roots to explorer. Continuation? Yes. Sequel? Maaaaybe, depending on how you look at it, though it can still stand along, again, depending on how you want to view it. Remake? No way. Obviously the game is a love letter to Zelda fans who love Ocarina and wanted to experience a completely new adventure, yet also quietly see their personal favorite Zelda be honored, while getting it's ass kicked in every department. It has more personality and feeling than any game I've played, and it also is the most immersive, and cinematic Zelda in the series as far as I'm concerned (though Wind Waker is a damned high second). Being the insane Zelda fan I am, I love to see it honor the past in so many subtle ways, but it does not use them as a crutch and stands as it's own game. You can perfectly enjoy the game just fine without any knowledge of the past whatsoever. To sum it up, I think you're all become too jaded and judgmental. Don't worry. I still love all of you jaded bastards. __________________ Last edited by ThirdMarioBro; 01-01-2007 at 05:31 AM.*

01-01-2007, 08:41 AM	#155
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	That's okay, because I still think you're a Nintendo fanboy who refuses change. And I wouldn't say that I'm judgmental. I would say that I don't like to waste my money on bad games. You seem to do that, though. From what I gather, you like Twilight Princess simply because it's a Zelda game, and no other reason. You overlook the shortcomings just because it's a franchise from your childhood. If that's how you roll, hey, whatever. I judge my games based on gameplay, music, and replay value. Just because it's from a franchise that delivers 99% of the time, doesn't mean I'm going to like it. This game has its problems, yet you refuse to address them. It's okay to not like something from Nintendo, you know. Your company isn't going to send out a legion of assassins to take your life away. Just a thought. Last edited by 愛; 01-01-2007 at 08:51 AM.

01-01-2007, 12:38 PM	#158
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	Actually, that's how Midna talks in TP. Much like the spirits in Shadow of the Colossus. Except its just very short bits of speech. __________________ Stupendous Monster

01-01-2007, 12:46 PM	#159
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	I loved the game because it was a good game. And since TMB and I are pretty much on the same page about everything else regarding it, I'm assuming he feels the same way. Though I suppose I can only speak for myself. __________________ I love you, Pickle. Last edited by Dr. Doom; 01-01-2007 at 12:53 PM.

01-01-2007, 08:07 PM	#160
Kid Icarus Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Angel Land Posts: 4,150	Without digging through all of the argument crap that's going on, here's my take. You all expect too damn much. You KNEW it was going to be Ocarina of Time 2 going into it, so what's with all the damn bitching about that? And, really, is that a bad thing? What else can they really do with the 3D Zelda design? They tried making a change in Wind Waker with sailing, and that flopped. And Peanut... it's funny that you think LttP is such a big step over LoZ. Someone needs to revisit these games. They're the SAME design, but LttP is more linear, and has more hand holding. As far as I'm concerned, Wiimote wagging or not, this is the best 3D Zelda made. The controls are solid (Really, I've never had problems them. I don't get where the hell you find timing issues.. I move my wrist, the sword goes. If you think it's going to trigger a split second later, start the damn action sooner. Just takes a little brain power.) I use Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest 8, Resident Evil, and Eternal Darkness as examples of why voice acting should NOT be done in games. Is it that hard for you guys to read a few lines of text? ****. And what happens if they DO do it, and you decide you don't like one of the voices? You'll knock the game for that too, I bet. It also seems to that Peanut just likes to complain to complain. "ZOMG they didn't do something I want, so it's not worthy!" Please. Go find something better to do, really, because it's old.