Saw

[LogicDonny]

Does anyone here like the Saw Movies? The 3rd one came out today on dvd and hopefully the 4th one comes out halloween like it always is.

[Anarky]

Personally, I don't see what the Saw-films are supposed to be. They're not horror, at least to me they're not (I'll explain later why). And they're not splatter movies either, they're just too un-gory for that.

Now to the part where they're not creepy or scary, but just downright ridiculous. I'm not saying horror-movies can't be scary anymore, but Saw just isn't. Michael Myers for example still gives me the creeps, for example. But Jigsaw's just too unrealistic to be credible. You have this guy who had a career once and he can do everything, he's like MacGyver. He buys a house, builds ten billion traps into it by himself (toymaker or not, there's no way he could have made all those things), kidnaps people and, without anyone looking for the people, he manages to get them safely to this traphouse. There, he somehow manages to do things like implanting a key in a guy's eye without him noticing. Then they victims wake up and just as they do, the puppet starts talking. What follows after that is not a story anymore but simple running around, trying to survive. Nothing against running around trying to survive, but after Billy has spoken, nothing really happens anymore. So they're not horrific to me. And since they're not splatter-movies either and fail at being funny, those movies are actually nothing really.

I prefer people like Myers who's just this guy in a mask with a friggin' big knife cutting stuff and people. Sure, his apparent immortality has been overdone in the later movies, but you get what I mean.

[Spitfire]

SAW are gore flicks, made simply to show gross scenes for B-style blood and guts.

Except it lacks something older movies like "The Thing" have and newer ones like "The Descent" have which is good acting, good story, and something interesting happening in general.

SAW is basically, old guy with cancer kills people because they don't applicate life. How many more movies they going to make about that? Hell Nightmare On Elm Street only got 6, Friday The Thirteenth got 10, and Halloween like 7? Yeah horror series are good when there's a point to the series. The only point to this series is to have one out every year around Halloween so they can cash in. Just like the others I listed, hence why all their sequels sucked as well.

[Mr. Snackpants]

I like them. However I haven't seen the third one yet. The first was my favorite. It had an interesting ending. I agree these movies really aren't scary, just gross and make you cringe a lot. The second one wasn't as good imo, but the ending was just as good. The acting is terrible. Thats one of the only bad things I have to say about these movies. I find myself laughing at points in the movie due to the terrible acting and I doubt thats what the producers were aiming for. I think they're decent movies if you take them for what they're worth.

[MikesPizzaShack]

ya ive seen all of them. there awsome the 2nd wast as good as any of the others but after watching 3 u realize that 2 was more of a plot filler and makes sense of the series....

[Warhorse]

I always viewed Saw as more of a mystery or puzzle with a little horror put in. The horror, is that if the people don't beat the clock, they can die some brutal and painful deaths. And what makes it even a bit more scary, is the fact that something like this could happen.

Saw almost reminds me of the movie Seven, just a little more bloodier.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I always viewed Saw as more of a mystery or puzzle with a little horror put in. The horror, is that if the people don't beat the clock, they can die some brutal and painful deaths. And what makes it even a bit more scary, is the fact that something like this could happen.

See, that's just what I can't see. There is no way in hell I can see a guy acquiring all the knowledge to build this stuff (you need computer knowledge, an engineer's degree-knowledge, a degree in medicine and surgery (to implant things into people). Say it is possible to acquire all that knowledge plus a house while working a normal job to raise the money to pay for all your intricate designs, there still need to be someone who comes to the conclusion of how others mistreat life while being diagnosed with a deadly cancer himself.

You see, the character of Jigsaw is so flawed beyond repair that there's no way he could exist. Michael Myers on the other hand side, guy with a mask and a knife with the mental state of a spree killer, is way more likely to exist. It's the outlandishness of Jigsaw and the whole movie that makes me say "This could never ever happen." while I don't doubt that with enough effort you could build those traps. Other than that, you gotta be really daft to see something seen in this movie happening.

[Peanut]

I agree 100% with Anarky. The movies just have no effect on me, for the single reason that there's no way in hell some old cancer patient could pull this stuff off, despite having the help of another person. It's just impossible.

[bmxbandit]

i absolutely LOVE the saw movies. i like the fact that it isn't a typical "horror" movie with some guy chasing the characters endlessly throughout the movie or that it isn't just full of blood and guts. i like that there is always a huge plot twist at the end and that it focuses more on the storyline rather than attempting to scare you.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Originally Posted by Anarky

See, that's just what I can't see. There is no way in hell I can see a guy acquiring all the knowledge to build this stuff (you need computer knowledge, an engineer's degree-knowledge, a degree in medicine and surgery (to implant things into people). Say it is possible to acquire all that knowledge plus a house while working a normal job to raise the money to pay for all your intricate designs, there still need to be someone who comes to the conclusion of how others mistreat life while being diagnosed with a deadly cancer himself.

You see, the character of Jigsaw is so flawed beyond repair that there's no way he could exist. Michael Myers on the other hand side, guy with a mask and a knife with the mental state of a spree killer, is way more likely to exist. It's the outlandishness of Jigsaw and the whole movie that makes me say "This could never ever happen." while I don't doubt that with enough effort you could build those traps. Other than that, you gotta be really daft to see something seen in this movie happening.

I definitly see where you're coming from.

But I don't find it as far-fetched as you do. He's an old guy. As far as I remember Jigsaw's past is never revealed, so he could've been rich. But like I said I don't remember. The things he uses for traps don't look expensive, more like junk he's found. Some of his trap aren't that complicated to build and wouldn't require someone to have an engineer's degree-knowledge, but some are complicated. I doubt he would need to have surgeons knowledge to implant something behind someones eye. It's not like he's worried about hurting the person. He's just cutting and inserting.

I do agree with you about how he finds and kidnaps his victims. How does he know the dirty secrets about random people? Then he has to kidnap them and place them in a trap. All while suffering the effects of cancer (But he now has some help, I guess).

[Warhorse]

I think you people need to take a visit to your nearest psychiatric ward. I worked part time in one, and they have some very sick, disturbed individuals, but are also smarter than an entire class of MIT graduates. Something about the ultra smart people, is that they tend to become obsessive. Most take their obsessions towards a healthier road, others, while not many, do not. And that's when you get some of your worst and bizare serial killings, from rather smart individuals. Most of the time anyways. As for Ed Gein, well, your going to have bad apples once in a while!

[Sewer Bull]

The only interesting thing in this series are those intricately designed "testing" contraptions. The rest is boring and calculated more to gross out the audience rather than to scare the crap out of it. And like some people said here - it's far too unrealistic to be scary at all.

I wonder what "Saw IV" is going to be all about. Some Jigsaw's epigone using Billy?

[raphael_is_cool]

I find it quite amazing a lot of you seem to just dislike it because there's no way this guy could build all this stuff. As if all the gadgets and such work properly in Batman Begins or something like that.

I like the way the story unfurls in the first one and I found the second one interesting because of the gruesome traps (I'd already guessed what was going on in the story). I have not yet seen the third one as I've heard that's not so good.

[Anarky]

For me, a good horrormovie just needs a baddie that is credible. Or more or less in the region of credible. And a superintelligent, superrich, superwise, supersick, supercreative cancerpatient just isn't it. He's too much of a Mary Sue.

I mean, sure, you can't kill Michael Myers. But how realistic is a guy with a knife and a mask? So, to me, the Sawflicks juat aren't horror movies. They're not especially thrilling either, since once you realized what Jigsaw is, they're boring because he's more of a MacGyver than anything else. And the movies fail at being Splatterflicks since they'd require a lot more blood and gore.

The Sawfilms are nothing really. They try to be a lot, fail by not only trying but also by trying to be too much at once. And Jigsaw just isn't a good bad guy.

[KROW]

I like the Saw flms. I think Jigsaw is a great bad guy since he makes his victims kill themselves and struggle to survive. His objective is to cause them to think and see how far they're willing to go to live. For example, in the beginning of the second film, his victim had to cut his own eye out in order to find the key that will unlock his shackles and escape. The guy couldn't bring himself to do it, so he died.

Jigsaw displays how much people really want to live and value their life through his work. Having the villain be a cancer patient does two things: 1) shows that anybody, no matter how inflicted with personal demons or agendas, can have an M.O. as a serial killer, and 2) gives a new perspective to the horror genre.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by KROW

Jigsaw displays how much people really want to live and value their life through his work. Having the villain be a cancer patient does two things: 1) shows that anybody, no matter how inflicted with personal demons or agendas, can have an M.O. as a serial killer, and 2) gives a new perspective to the horror genre.

Watch out for my new horror movie. "Wheelz'o'deth!" It's revolutionary to the horror genre because the main bad guy is in a wheelchair. It will be a completely new approach to the horror genre, proving without a doubt that even a guy in a wheelchair can be a serial killer. And it's a completely new perspective too.

You can make anyone into a serial killer and if you have to take on dying or disabled people, make them into serial killers and then call that a "new perspective" then I'd say there's something wrong in the respective genre, be it Horror or Action or whatnot. That's just a lame plot device, nothing more.

And I'm not even questioning his motives, they're probably the least idiotic thing about his character, although still being rather ridiculous. Jigsaw is too outlandish to be credible, therefore makes a bad horror-movie character. He would probably be better off in a Splatter-movie, but Saw would need more gore for that.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Originally Posted by KROW

I like the Saw flms. I think Jigsaw is a great bad guy since he makes his victims kill themselves and struggle to survive. His objective is to cause them to think and see how far they're willing to go to live. For example, in the beginning of the second film, his victim had to cut his own eye out in order to find the key that will unlock his shackles and escape. The guy couldn't bring himself to do it, so he died.

Jigsaw displays how much people really want to live and value their life through his work. Having the villain be a cancer patient does two things: 1) shows that anybody, no matter how inflicted with personal demons or agendas, can have an M.O. as a serial killer, and 2) gives a new perspective to the horror genre.

I agree with everything you've said, great points.

Saw is much better than crazed dude with a mask, stabbing people.

[raphael_is_cool]

Originally Posted by Anarky

The Sawfilms are nothing really. They try to be a lot, fail by not only trying but also by trying to be too much at once. And Jigsaw just isn't a good bad guy.

It sounds like you're basically saying you don't like it because you can't define it.

The Saw films I've seen (1 and 2) work on the basic 'timebomb' storytelling device and do it quite well, I find. The bad guy doesn't need to be invincible and just out to stab anyone; there's more depth to it than a regular horror film. There are also twists, especially in the first one, that change your perspective and keep things fresh.

I wouldn't criticise it because it fails to fit a set genre type but simply because it's not your thing.

[Spitfire]

The SAW films are hardly horror. The only thing horrifying are the actors and actresses. Not to mention the plotholes that they didn't bother cleaning up until the 3rd movie. And even then they were stupid.

Like Anarky said Jigsaw is just to impossible, for a movie trying to work on the "This could happen to anyone" thrill. If Jigsaw had a gang or something that helped his cancer ridden butt do all that stuff then that makes sense but otherwise I just can't buy it. I also don't buy that the kid int he 2nd movie survived being locked in a safe for that long.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Anarky

Watch out for my new horror movie. "Wheelz'o'deth!" It's revolutionary to the horror genre because the main bad guy is in a wheelchair. It will be a completely new approach to the horror genre, proving without a doubt that even a guy in a wheelchair can be a serial killer. And it's a completely new perspective too.

You can make anyone into a serial killer and if you have to take on dying or disabled people, make them into serial killers and then call that a "new perspective" then I'd say there's something wrong in the respective genre, be it Horror or Action or whatnot. That's just a lame plot device, nothing more.

And I'm not even questioning his motives, they're probably the least idiotic thing about his character, although still being rather ridiculous. Jigsaw is too outlandish to be credible, therefore makes a bad horror-movie character. He would probably be better off in a Splatter-movie, but Saw would need more gore for that.

I like how some folks think that films need gore to be even considered to be called, "horror," and even then it gets categorized under "splatter," "snuff," and "slasher" among other things. Some films play on the mind of the viewer, others simply like to put the whole display out there for folks to see. Where Saw is concerned, it projects (to me) both in certain amounts. There's the blood and guts and then there's the mind games, the parts that make the audience think as to how the pieces fall together.

With the first film, it seemed a bit like it could happen in reality, then it got the Hollywood touch with the second and lost some of its credibility. The series tried to get it back with the third and half-succeeded, not quite washing the taint it gained. However, it's still a better concept than a crazed man in a mask hacking random people, fighting at the end, dying, then coming back in a ridiculous way in the next film just because the execs wanted more money out of such an unexpected blockbuster. Of course, this is what happened to the Saw films, but there's a difference that can be clearly seen. Where the Saw movies may have a lame plot device, there are a whole lot more films that have been made (with masked slashers) with lamer ones.

Oh, and someone restricted to a wheelchair can be a killer; those things can be motorized and with the right amount of gumption, can be quite the murderous tool.